Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
I provided plenty of facts just as they did. You don't accept mine. I don't accept yours. case closed.
Again, these days there seems to be the tendency with many people to confuse facts and opinions. Your argument rests on your OPINION that the comparative statistics on drops between Walker and Gore favor Gore because the throws to Walker are tougher passes to catch than those to Gore. I hate to break it to you, but that falls into the realm of subjective opinion, not facts. Buck presented the numbers. The numbers are objective facts. You don't accept their value because of a subjective opinion about the relative difficulty of the throws being compared. So, your position rests primarily on subjective opinion and his on objective facts. I'm not sure why that is so hard for some people to grasp.
Some of my argument was opinion no doubt. But I also threw in facts, just like Idaho. My main argument was with Idaho and not buck. Buck just recently jumped in which is good because I enjoy debating with the 2 of you more than others. I don't think it's subjective opinion that it is easier for gore to catch his passes than it is for walker. Walker is typically a lot further down field than gore is. Balls are typically coming in at a lot faster of a rate to walker as opposed to gore. Gore catches and drops a lot of easy dinks and dunks. Walker catches and drops a lot of bullets and some lob passes. Kaep doesn't lob the ball very often though. I don't see how you couldn't come up with the conclusion that on average gore's passes are easier to bring in than walker's. It's like saying what is harder catching a pass at 40 mph with a higher trajectory or a pass at 25 mph with a lower trajectory. Pretty simple if you ask me, but apparently that's my subjective opinion.
But also if we are talking about just facts, than gore recently (the year before last) had a drop % that was almost the same as walker's this year. Last year gore was at 11 % which was BELOW avg. not on par with the rest of the backs.
A couple of things.
First, the drop rate per catchable pass
is just what it says.
Last year, Gore dropped 4 catchable passes
and Walker dropped 9 catchable passes
In 2012, Gore's drop rate on catchable passes
was 12.5% and Walker's was 30%.
You specifically stated that Gore's hands were just as bad as Delanie's last season. The numbers do not support that claim.
Last year, Walker dropped more than double the number of catchable passes.
The difference between the drop rates is substantial--17.5%.
Second, the argument that you are making about the passes throw to Walker being harder passes to catch are based upon your assumptions
of what is typically true of passes thrown by Kaepernick. This is not a very solid argument.
1. Kaepernick was not the only quarterback throwing to Walker and Gore last year.
2. You do not know
the speed of any pass thrown to Walker or the speed of any pass thrown to Gore last year.
Your claim that Gore is slowing down in the passing game also is not supported by the numbers.
Gore had a dismal year in 2011. In 2012, he improved his passing game and his 2012 numbers were close to or better than his averages over the past five years.
The new coaching staff installed a new offensive scheme in 2011. We know that Gore has various learning disabilities; he larns a bit slower than most people.
I argued in another post, that difficultly learning the new offense is most likely the reason for his abnormally high number of drops and high drop rate in 2012.
That argument is as logical as anything that you have argued, and supported by improvement in 2012.
[ Edited by buck on Jun 17, 2013 at 4:37 PM ]