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Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Your right our team doesn't need to get any better. We are the best from our front office down to our waterboy.
lol i love the WZ. One year its "THANK YOU LORD FANGIO. OMGOMG OUR DEFENSE IS TEH BEST EVAR!!! I HOPE HE DOESNT RUN OFF AND BECOME A HC." And then in an offseason after we played in a super bowl and fielded another top tier defense. "OH HE"S THE SUXORZ!"
Originally posted by MarkD:
You don't male coaching changes during a legitimate super bowl run. Our D has been top 5 the last two years. The overall problem was Dline depth during last season. That doesn't have anything to do with Fangio. Aka. Vick the Dick

Actually depth wasn't the issue. We had depth. The starters got tired due to lack of rotation. I mean look at the case of Aldon dropoff in production. First you can say that Justin Smiths injury played a part and the injury can be attributed to the fact he's 34 and playing 90% of the snaps. Aldon was playing about the same amount. You have RJF, Sopo, and Williams who can easily fill in to ligthen the load. Also there's the case of Aldon's fatigue which could easily had been dealt with if they had started rotating him with Haralson on 1st and 2nd downs.


Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Yea we have a top 3 defense but where was that D down the stretch? Where was that pass rush down the stretch? They were fatigued and beat up. This is not about nitpicking. I'm not saying Fangio needs to go. I would never say that because his defense is my most favorite part of this team but this article worries me.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/6/12/4424694/49ers-minicamp-vic-fangio-talks-eric-reid-lawrence-okoye-development'

Heres a couple of quotes.

How much did you change the defense during the offseason before coming into these OTAs and mini-camps?

"Not much at all. Every year you tweak here and there and add a little something here and there. And we've done that. But, nothing major."

Not much at all? After the Falcons, Seahawks, and Ravens decimated our secondary he says that he's not changing much. I mean I'm sure he's actually working very hard to deal with the diminished pass rush, secondary, and dline health but I don't understand why he's acting so nonchalant. It was his defense that gave up like 28 points in the 1st half but no major changes were needed.

You've got a lot of reinforcements through the draft, free agency somewhat along the defensive line. Is the intent to have more platooning this year to give those starters more of a rest during the regular season?

"Well, that's a possibility. But, those guys have to earn the right to be allowed to be put in the game. You just don't platoon guys just for the sake of platooning them. You don't want to go down in the quality of your play just for the sake of playing guys. But, those guys, the guys you're alluding to haven't practiced yet, and I don't know when they'll be able to practice. So, whatever contributions they can make is really up in the air yet."

I understand what he's trying to say but I don't understand why he's saying it. It's like he knows he needs to rotate more but he doesn't want to admit it. Tank, Dorsey, Williams,Lemonier, Reid, and Dial should all be platooned for the sake of playing them because they're the future starters of this team. It kind of feels like he's being pissy because he knows his zero rotation philosophy is being changed for him. Acting like all contribution from these guys is completely up in the air is just ridiculous.

Yet again I like Fangio but I think he needs to get over this zero rotation purist philosophy. He needs to start blitzing more if he's worried about creating pressure with the subs. By now the entire league has our stunts figured out so he needs to adapt to survive.

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
lol i love the WZ. One year its "THANK YOU LORD FANGIO. OMGOMG OUR DEFENSE IS TEH BEST EVAR!!! I HOPE HE DOESNT RUN OFF AND BECOME A HC." And then in an offseason after we played in a super bowl and fielded another top tier defense. "OH HE"S THE SUXORZ!"

lol. that sounds about right.
Only problem is that he goes too conservative at times. Same goes for Roman. If we become more aggressive on both ends we will see the full potential of this team.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Your right our team doesn't need to get any better. We are the best from our front office down to our waterboy.

Where in his post does he say the team doesn't need to get any better?
eonblue Ian Williams and Sop were not going to help us in our sub packages which we played over 63 percent of our defensive snaps. Neither of those two can get up the field and rush the passer. RJF was our only depth in our sub packages after Dobbs went down.
[ Edited by Hopper on Jun 13, 2013 at 6:35 PM ]
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by MarkD:
You don't male coaching changes during a legitimate super bowl run. Our D has been top 5 the last two years. The overall problem was Dline depth during last season. That doesn't have anything to do with Fangio. Aka. Vick the Dick

Actually depth wasn't the issue. We had depth. The starters got tired due to lack of rotation. I mean look at the case of Aldon dropoff in production. First you can say that Justin Smiths injury played a part and the injury can be attributed to the fact he's 34 and playing 90% of the snaps. Aldon was playing about the same amount. You have RJF, Sopo, and Williams who can easily fill in to ligthen the load. Also there's the case of Aldon's fatigue which could easily had been dealt with if they had started rotating him with Haralson on 1st and 2nd downs.


Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Yea we have a top 3 defense but where was that D down the stretch? Where was that pass rush down the stretch? They were fatigued and beat up. This is not about nitpicking. I'm not saying Fangio needs to go. I would never say that because his defense is my most favorite part of this team but this article worries me.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/6/12/4424694/49ers-minicamp-vic-fangio-talks-eric-reid-lawrence-okoye-development'

Heres a couple of quotes.

How much did you change the defense during the offseason before coming into these OTAs and mini-camps?

"Not much at all. Every year you tweak here and there and add a little something here and there. And we've done that. But, nothing major."

Not much at all? After the Falcons, Seahawks, and Ravens decimated our secondary he says that he's not changing much. I mean I'm sure he's actually working very hard to deal with the diminished pass rush, secondary, and dline health but I don't understand why he's acting so nonchalant. It was his defense that gave up like 28 points in the 1st half but no major changes were needed.

You've got a lot of reinforcements through the draft, free agency somewhat along the defensive line. Is the intent to have more platooning this year to give those starters more of a rest during the regular season?

"Well, that's a possibility. But, those guys have to earn the right to be allowed to be put in the game. You just don't platoon guys just for the sake of platooning them. You don't want to go down in the quality of your play just for the sake of playing guys. But, those guys, the guys you're alluding to haven't practiced yet, and I don't know when they'll be able to practice. So, whatever contributions they can make is really up in the air yet."

I understand what he's trying to say but I don't understand why he's saying it. It's like he knows he needs to rotate more but he doesn't want to admit it. Tank, Dorsey, Williams,Lemonier, Reid, and Dial should all be platooned for the sake of playing them because they're the future starters of this team. It kind of feels like he's being pissy because he knows his zero rotation philosophy is being changed for him. Acting like all contribution from these guys is completely up in the air is just ridiculous.

Yet again I like Fangio but I think he needs to get over this zero rotation purist philosophy. He needs to start blitzing more if he's worried about creating pressure with the subs. By now the entire league has our stunts figured out so he needs to adapt to survive.


Tough to have any pass rush threat when Justin and Aldon were hurt, and had no one else producing. Can't always be the coaches fault, need to take some heat on the players too. Brooks isnt the pass rush force he should be.
Fangio is looking to shorten the coverage time for his DB's by getting to the qb with his set of linebackers and defensive end rotation. Just watch. His guys will be wicked on the weak side. Can't wait !! I think Lemonier can go weak or strong side. A backup that might be able to play like he should start.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jun 13, 2013 at 6:52 PM ]
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Fangio is looking to shorten the coverage time for his DB's by getting to the qb with his set of linebackers and defensive end rotation. Just watch. His guys will be wicked on the weak side. Can't wait !!

I agree and I think it's a sound philosophy. Pressure the hell out the QB, get in his face, knock him down, just make him uncomfortable in the pocket. That's the best thing you can do for the secondary imo.
Originally posted by Hopper:
eonblue Ian Williams and Sop were not going to help us in our sub packages which we played over 63 percent of our defensive snaps. Neither of those two can get up the field and rush the passer. RJF was our only depth in our sub packages after Dobbs went down.

Actually Sopo played DE before his move to NT. It's really not hard to create pressure in the sub package either. The DTs are still just assigned to one gap so creating pressure a single gap shouldn't be that hard. Regardless pressure in the sub packs is usually generated on the edge. The DT's really have to contain more than pressure. I don't think Sopo and Ians lack of pressuring skills is an excuse either. Isn't it a coaches job to put his players in situations to be successful? I could easily envision a line of Brooks-Mcdonald-Williams-Smith and with creative pressure it could easily be successful. Obviously with the addition of Dorsey and Dial on top of Williams and Carradine we have a very good core of DE's.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Tough to have any pass rush threat when Justin and Aldon were hurt, and had no one else producing. Can't always be the coaches fault, need to take some heat on the players too. Brooks isnt the pass rush force he should be.

Yea I agree I don't think it's anyone elses fault more than the others. Fangio did a great job giving this defense andidentity. I just think it's time he made some adjustments. More creative pressures, blitzes, and exotic alignments. I think he needs to see rotation as a chance to develop players so they're useful in the playoffs because like you said no one else was producing when it counted. It just seems like he's viewing rotation as nothing but trouble when all evidence points to the contrary.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Fangio is looking to shorten the coverage time for his DB's by getting to the qb with his set of linebackers and defensive end rotation. Just watch. His guys will be wicked on the weak side. Can't wait !! I think Lemonier can go weak or strong side. A backup that might be able to play like he should start.
I'm pretty excited about the front 7. Yet again we have the strongest LB core in the league and with the addition of Lemonier it becomes much more dynamic. He's going to strengthen coverages and hopefully get to the QB some. I expect Carradine to start off in Sub packages at DE for Brooks/Smith. I don't think he's big enough to play inside yet and I think he would be more successful starting out on the edge.
Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Your right our team doesn't need to get any better. We are the best from our front office down to our waterboy.

Where in his post does he say the team doesn't need to get any better?


He implies it. You can play dumb all you like, but saying we have a top 3 defense, best front 7 and that fangio is still a great dc is implying that we are already good enough.

Here's the thing. We didn't win the superbowl last year, and even if we did, we still have areas that need to be improved. I don't even agree with the OP on this topic but I can see where he is coming from. A lot of people on here want to act like the 49ers can do no wrong. That isn't the case with any NFL team obviously, and since the 49ers have been doing so many things right the past couple of years, people think change isn't necessary. I tend to be a bit more open minded than oh fangio has led a top 3 defense 2 years in a row. Look at all the stars he has on his defense. We had a problem on both sides of the ball in the playoffs. The offense had a problem getting going early but that is to be expected with a young qb. Yeah our defense had their injuries but both aldon and Justin still played and guess what we got torched on defense. Obviously something needs to be changed on defense. Like my thread said I think we need to get a more consistent pass rush from the strongside, but I do think fangio has some things he needs to do a lot better too, and rogers is garbage.


On a side note if our waterboy had kept our players adequately hydrated than we wouldn't be talking about the lack of rotation and our players getting tired. Fire him!
A backup, multi-positional Offensive Lineman who is a former starter on our team (and another) is the second weakest link on our entire team, including the Coaches.....??????






Superbowl!!!!!
Fangio is a great defensive coordinator.

I just don't like that it took him 1.5 games to realize that we needed to start blitzing the QB when our pass rush went to s**t (due to the injuries to Smith/Smith).

If he blitzes more starting from Q1 in the SB, we win.

People wanna blame our secondary, and yes they got burned a lot at the end, but they were totally a product of our pass rush all season. Without the pass rush the secondary looked weaker than it already was.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Your right our team doesn't need to get any better. We are the best from our front office down to our waterboy.

Where in his post does he say the team doesn't need to get any better?


He implies it. You can play dumb all you like, but saying we have a top 3 defense, best front 7 and that fangio is still a great dc is implying that we are already good enough.

Here's the thing. We didn't win the superbowl last year, and even if we did, we still have areas that need to be improved. I don't even agree with the OP on this topic but I can see where he is coming from. A lot of people on here want to act like the 49ers can do no wrong. That isn't the case with any NFL team obviously, and since the 49ers have been doing so many things right the past couple of years, people think change isn't necessary. I tend to be a bit more open minded than oh fangio has led a top 3 defense 2 years in a row. Look at all the stars he has on his defense. We had a problem on both sides of the ball in the playoffs. The offense had a problem getting going early but that is to be expected with a young qb. Yeah our defense had their injuries but both aldon and Justin still played and guess what we got torched on defense. Obviously something needs to be changed on defense. Like my thread said I think we need to get a more consistent pass rush from the strongside, but I do think fangio has some things he needs to do a lot better too, and rogers is garbage.


On a side note if our waterboy had kept our players adequately hydrated than we wouldn't be talking about the lack of rotation and our players getting tired. Fire him!

No, that's what you read into it. All he said is you can't blame not upgrading the CB spot on Vic, that's Trent and the FO's decision.

Again you are putting words into peoples mouths to support your argument. I don't think anyone is under the impression that we can just stand pat and be ok. You're either getting better or getting worse right? It's almost unanimously agreed upon that Fangio needs to implement a better rotation among the front 7, which I agree with.

Our two best pass rushers where playing hurt at the end of the year. Justin Smith had a partially torn triceps tendon and Aldon had to have surgery on his labrum, those are significant injuries and I commend them for gutting it out but they where noticeably hampered. That's not Vics fault either.

Brooks is a fantastic OLB for what we ask him to do but I agree he is not the best pass rusher. I think we will use Lemo as a situational 3rd down pass rusher similar to Aldon in his first year to help out with that though.

The funny thing is, nobody complained about our pass rush (or the D in general) until the Smith brothers where injured. I think getting those 2 guys back healthy, along with a better rotation (to keep them healthy), is going to be huge for our D. We have added some good talent to our front 7 in Lemo, Dorsey and Tank so hopefully Vic won't be as hesitant in subbing those guys in.