There are 103 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Is It Time To Identify A Franchise WR ?

Originally posted by GNielsen:
After watching his highlight film, I can tell you that Patton does not look slow to me.

I agree he looks like he may not be a top speed receiver but has very quick movement for freeing himself up at the line.
Well I know Jenkins is not slow and neither was Marvin Harrison
Jenkins had a low 40 of 4.3 and Patton had a low 40 of 4.4 seconds.
Marqise Lee is by far one of the most talented WRs the NFL will have seen in a long time.... If Lee had Kaep throwing to him, without a doubt the 9ers would be an unstoppable offensive juggernaut.
Originally posted by jvangeystel:
I believe it is folly to search for the next great WR. It seems as if this thread assumes this kind of talent exists. These guys you mention are freaks of nature and are very rare. It's not like were the only team in the league without one of these elite guys. You keep using the same couple names, there is a reason for that. There is only a couple guys like that in the league. We could draft receivers every year near the top of the draft for years and still not find someone similar to these guys. It's too much of a gamble to trade away picks that could solidify the team and keep our cap down, just so you can draft a guy who will eventually leave for more money. Baalke has been drafting receivers every year, he is looking for a top tier guy without having to empty our pockets to get him. In the mean time these receivers are young and talented enough to keep us competitive every year. I don't mean to be so negative, but it just seems like you are so amazed by what the Falcons did with Julio Jones. That was a huge risk and 9/10 your not going to get a Julio Jones caliber player out of the deal.


Well, no offense, you do sound negative. Just cos is difficult to identify such a talent, so we shouldn't even try ? Is that what you are saying ? It takes a team with conviction to make such a move. And by the way, although we didn't trade up to top 10, we did go up to 18th to get Eric Reid. The truth of the matter is it doesn't matter whether it is a WR, Safety, QB or any other position or whether it is a high, middle and low round pick, risk is always inherent. Bottomline, if you are striving for excellence, you have to bear a certain degree of risk.

So, I presume you prefer to go with Ballke's approach of drafting receivers from the lower rounds without going for a high pick. If the hit rate is this low, you will just end up emptying your pockets if not more anyway. As for the Falcons and Julio Jones, I will always tip my hat off to anyone who manages to identify and secure a top talent. I doubt anyone would argue Julio Jones isn't a top receiver.
Originally posted by THEMerts80:
Marqise Lee is by far one of the most talented WRs the NFL will have seen in a long time.... If Lee had Kaep throwing to him, without a doubt the 9ers would be an unstoppable offensive juggernaut.

I really don't see the niners having a chance at Lee. Even with the bevy of picks (at best 1-#1, 2-#2s and 3-#3s, the niners will move up to get a player they want, but I don't see them mortguaging the future like atlanta did. One of those #2s or three's will be used to get a higher pick the following year or additional/future pick along with a pick in the same round. Plus next year they will need a CB or two as well as a Wr or two. They are looking to keep the team competitive and stay within the salary cap for years to come.

As I stated a franchise wr is great, but unnecessary to win a superbowl. Plus what defines a franchise wr? Ask yourself that. Is it a wr drafted high and how high? Is it someone you overpay? No! A franchise wr is someone to me is someone who has produced the numbers and you can't do without, not someone who has the potential to be a franchise wr and that includes free agents.
[ Edited by WildBill on May 26, 2013 at 2:35 AM ]
Originally posted by WildBill:
I really don't see the niners having a chance at Lee. Even with the bevy of picks (at best 1-#1, 2-#2s and 3-#3s, the niners will move up to get a player they want, but I don't see them mortguaging the future like atlanta did. One of those #2s or three's will be used to get a higher pick the following year or additional/future pick along with a pick in the same round. Plus next year they will need a CB or two as well as a Wr or two. They are looking to keep the team competitive and stay within the salary cap for years to come.

As I stated a franchise wr is great, but unnecessary to win a superbowl. Plus what defines a franchise wr? Ask yourself that. Is it a wr drafted high and how high? Is it someone you overpay? No! A franchise wr is someone to me is someone who has produced the numbers and you can't do without, not someone who has the potential to be a franchise wr and that includes free agents.


You lost me there. If you don't set out with the objective of getting that top talent in the first place, how will the person be able to churn out those kinds of numbers for your franchise ? Is no different to say if you were the managing partner of a law firm and you want to headhunt a top young lawyer, naturally you would go to the top law schools such as Harvard Law to identify and recruit the person. Is chicken and egg, mate !! If you think the term "franchise WR" is misleading, may be we can call it "No. 1 WR", "Top WR" or something else perhaps. Will that help ?

I am not saying a top WR will have to be at the top of the 1st round, the guy could be in the middle of the 1st round perhaps. But, if you are saying don't trade up big time to get the guy, what would be your limit of trading up then ? Afterall, this year we did trade up to 18th in order to secure Eric Reid, would that be accepatble ? Or are you saying, the 9ers should only draft a guy disregard of position in the top 10 when we are in the gutter when we are awarded that high pick by default ? You do remember Crab was the No. 10 overall pick in 2009 right ?
[ Edited by Rascal on May 26, 2013 at 3:21 AM ]
IMO, the problem with dropping a lot of draft picks and money on one wide receiver is that one wide receiver can be neutralized by a good defense. A team needs a multiple weapon approach. Julio Jones is fantastic. There is no question about it. But, just for comparison, look at Megatron's performances against a healthy Niner defense with their pass rush intact. He just hasn't made a big difference for the Lions because Fangio has been able to scheme against him. The Niners would have had a lot more success against Jones in the playoffs if they weren't heavily dinged by injuries to the Smiths and the pass rush was still running on all cylinders.

You mentioned that the Niners went to the 10th pick for Crabtree. That's true, and Crabtree has been sensational, but one of the fundamental problems last season after Kaepernick started was that he became too dependent on the one Crabtree option. When teams made sure Crabtree was covered and Kaepernick had to throw elsewhere, he wasn't nearly as efficient. As we saw, Crabtree, or any #1 receiver for that matter, cannot carry an offense. There has to be four or five things a defense is thinking about, not one or two. Defenses are simply too good. They're filled with freakish athletes. You have to fool them. You can't just say this is what we're going to do and you can't stop it. That was the Singletary approach with poor Frank Gore as his fricking "bell cow."
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by jvangeystel:
I believe it is folly to search for the next great WR. It seems as if this thread assumes this kind of talent exists. These guys you mention are freaks of nature and are very rare. It's not like were the only team in the league without one of these elite guys. You keep using the same couple names, there is a reason for that. There is only a couple guys like that in the league. We could draft receivers every year near the top of the draft for years and still not find someone similar to these guys. It's too much of a gamble to trade away picks that could solidify the team and keep our cap down, just so you can draft a guy who will eventually leave for more money. Baalke has been drafting receivers every year, he is looking for a top tier guy without having to empty our pockets to get him. In the mean time these receivers are young and talented enough to keep us competitive every year. I don't mean to be so negative, but it just seems like you are so amazed by what the Falcons did with Julio Jones. That was a huge risk and 9/10 your not going to get a Julio Jones caliber player out of the deal.


Well, no offense, you do sound negative. Just cos is difficult to identify such a talent, so we shouldn't even try ? Is that what you are saying ? It takes a team with conviction to make such a move. And by the way, although we didn't trade up to top 10, we did go up to 18th to get Eric Reid. The truth of the matter is it doesn't matter whether it is a WR, Safety, QB or any other position or whether it is a high, middle and low round pick, risk is always inherent. Bottomline, if you are striving for excellence, you have to bear a certain degree of risk.

So, I presume you prefer to go with Ballke's approach of drafting receivers from the lower rounds without going for a high pick. If the hit rate is this low, you will just end up emptying your pockets if not more anyway. As for the Falcons and Julio Jones, I will always tip my hat off to anyone who manages to identify and secure a top talent. I doubt anyone would argue Julio Jones isn't a top receiver.

49ers have two receivers that they drafted in the first round. Any more and we become the Detroit Lions.
Originally posted by English:
49ers have two receivers that they drafted in the first round. Any more and we become the Detroit Lions.

Thank you.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
IMO, the problem with dropping a lot of draft picks and money on one wide receiver is that one wide receiver can be neutralized by a good defense. A team needs a multiple weapon approach. Julio Jones is fantastic. There is no question about it. But, just for comparison, look at Megatron's performances against a healthy Niner defense with their pass rush intact. He just hasn't made a big difference for the Lions because Fangio has been able to scheme against him. The Niners would have had a lot more success against Jones in the playoffs if they weren't heavily dinged by injuries to the Smiths and the pass rush was still running on all cylinders.

You mentioned that the Niners went to the 10th pick for Crabtree. That's true, and Crabtree has been sensational, but one of the fundamental problems last season after Kaepernick started was that he became too dependent on the one Crabtree option. When teams made sure Crabtree was covered and Kaepernick had to throw elsewhere, he wasn't nearly as efficient. As we saw, Crabtree, or any #1 receiver for that matter, cannot carry an offense. There has to be four or five things a defense is thinking about, not one or two. Defenses are simply too good. They're filled with freakish athletes. You have to fool them. You can't just say this is what we're going to do and you can't stop it. That was the Singletary approach with poor Frank Gore as his fricking "bell cow."


The make-up of every team is different. No 1 single player can carry the entire team. Likewise Megatron can't carry the entire team cos the rest of the team isn't good enough.But, having a top WR is not mutually exclusive to having a decent supporting cast of receivers. Jerry Rice had John Taylor and Julio Jones has Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez. The current 9ers team has enough secondary weapons available to unlock a double team on a top receiver. Many 9ers players such as Frank and Carlos have said in numerous interviews that there are just too many weapons and no opponent can double team every single guy. Can you double team Crab and Vernon in every down ? No, you can't.

As for your point about Crab being covered, yes to an extent is true, but frankly it has nothing to do with Crab. This is Kaep's personal choice or preference in picking Crab to throw to. According to Kaep, he said Crab gets open. But, in my view, they just happen to be good friends and they have great chemistry on the field. So, to me the problem lies in : 1) Kaep perhaps being biased on his choice of target and 2) May be not enough great receivers that can get open. What if we had 2 great complimenting WRs such as the Julio Jones and Roddy White tandem ? Surely they can't double team everryone right ? That is why the Falcons has one of the best receiving corps in the league.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Originally posted by English:
49ers have two receivers that they drafted in the first round. Any more and we become the Detroit Lions.

Thank you.


How about the Falcons ? Not too shabby right ? Thank you.
Originally posted by English:
49ers have two receivers that they drafted in the first round. Any more and we become the Detroit Lions.


I am sorry, I nearly missed it, when you say the 9ers have two 1st round WRs, are you referring to AJ Jenkins as the other guy ? Are we comparing Crab and AJJ with Roddy White and Julio Jones ? That is indeed worrying. Let's be objective here, AJJ hasn't been exactly that great, has he ? Well, let's hope for our and his sake he will make some major strides this coming season cos otherwise he may well just officially become a bust. To add, have you considered we might not be able to re-sign Crab ?
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Originally posted by English:
49ers have two receivers that they drafted in the first round. Any more and we become the Detroit Lions.

Thank you.


How about the Falcons ? Not too shabby right ? Thank you.

This is starting to look purely argumentative. We are what we are, right now. It will be enough, in my view. I didn't see Atlanta playing in the Superbowl, so I am not sure why you threw them in here.

The strength of our team is in the D, the O line, the running game and the starting qb. I think it unlikely (although nothing is impossible) that we trade up to pick up a top wide receiver in next year's draft. But as that is a long time away, I am not sure where this thread is going for now.