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Solution(s) to losing Crabs

Brady, Peyton...frequently have games where 6, or sometimes 8 different guys caught the ball. Roman got away from that, in that we had several games between alex and Kap where 8 guys caught passes.
We actually did it several times. Peyton, especially ,and Brady made a career of throwing to anyone who could catch the ball. That way one guy goes down, there are plenty others used to getting passes. This yr we should and better be able to do that. Kap can't be looking just for boldin, as soon he will be doubled , if not right out of the gate. I put some of the blame on roman, (not one of my favorites, but way better than anything in yrs) who SHOULD have been designing plays so that 5 or 6 guys are involved in the passing game. Sure one guy (boldin) will get most passes...but roman did nothing to widen the scope of guys getting thrown to...and that was a terrible mistake. Granted once kyle and Mario went down, things changed. Still, I never saw roman design plays to feature someone other than crbs, maybe Vernon.

What you all have nicely said above I agree with. But cc and I both have had our differences with roman as a playcaller, and I think this is another example of that.
Everything said above doesn't take away from the fact that roman did NOT help us in playcalling , and if someone wants to pin the tail on the donkey, roman has ample responsibility for this. Not saying Kap didn't just read Crbs at times, and that he did follow his progression at others. But if we want a passing game, the ball needs to be distributed better and that is on roman. If blocking takes a dump, ok, kap scrambles and finds a bailout. But still, roman HAS to get other guys involved, no matter what plays are called. Don't believe it, just check out any game of Peyton. Everybody gets passes....and some way more than others. We are missing that in our O playcalling.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:


Kaepernick was often asked: "Why do you thow to Crabtree so much?". His response: "Because he's open". Not: "Because I like throwing to him"; which is what those of you criticizing him are saying. What's he supposed to do? Not throw to his first open read just to satisfy the critics (who'll always have something to criticize anyway)?

All of this becomes: "he relies on Crabtree too much" or "he needs to learn how to find other receivers" (even if they are not, nor ever will be, open). Come on, guys!


This season, hopefully, some othe WRs beside Boldin emerge. Otherwise it'll be: "Kaepernick relies on Boldin too much" . . . BTW didn't Flacco do that?

I'm shocked that Kaepernick would say that. LOL! Is he likely to point out, or even see, his faults?

If you are referring to my post, it is not that I diminish other variables in the receiver/QB relationship, or team dynamic, but that it is human nature to grab your security blanket when you are under pressure. Crabtree was by far the most dependable receiver last year and had a rapport with CK that was developed on and off the field...a great security blanket.

Would it have been smart to force the ball to another receiver just to prove you can? Probably not...when the next two guys up are on the injured list. My perception of QB/WR relationships over the years is that the QB, at some point, needs to tell the WR "Sorry, but I'm going to spread the ball around." I recall Walsh criticizing Rice when he made an on field gesture that indicated he was unhappy Montana did not throw him the ball more. Montana just ignored the complaint and kept throwing it to the TE and 2nd WR until Rice was wide open for a TD.

Do I think WR is an inherently selfish position? Yes, it tends to attract me first guys who need to be coached to accept the game plan as implemented. CK may already be able to tell Crabtree to lineup and shut up...but I doubt it. He will grow into that confidence and not having Crabtree may help push that growth. It is not a huge criticism of a second year QB! He is already one of the best in the NFL and will just get better. This is an area I expect growth...and Jenkins, Patton, Manningham, Williams, etc. better be ready to step up!


Oops . . . didn't see this.

Yea . . . LOL . . . obviously, he's not going to make himself look limited.

Nevertheless, in my opinion Kaepernick is a different breed of QB, highly intelligent, with tremendous self confidence and maturity. Not all QBs entering the league are like that. Some come in with an outward show of bravado. Some of them are even highly intelligent. But once they play, it's obvious that they are rattled by the elements of the game. Maybe with those types, you sit them and allow them to assimilate the game from the bench. But there's no doubt that those types have the weaker psychology.

Not every QB (or player, forthat matter) "needs" to sit first to "get used to the speed of the game". The stronger, psychologically speaking, are able absorb, assimilate and adapt to the game immediately and can start immediately. Look, for example, at Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton. It's not the coaching that makes these guys special. Nor should they have "sat" first. They didn't need that; they were ready. It's an inherent quality that they possess. Kaepernick belongs in that group. Elite QBs come from that group/type of player. They never come in awed by the game, looking lost.

I say this by way of background in order to put remarks like "he relies on Crabtree too much" or "he needs to learn how to find other receivers" into perspective. Apart from being quite condescending, it paints a picture of a pscychologically weak QB running home to momma at the first sign of distress. Someone who needs to be weaned away from his bad habits. So it's a good thing that Crabtree got hurt. Otherwise Kaepernick would never be able to extract himself from this dependency.

IMO that is a misleading and disrespectful characterization. From my observations, sometimes Kaepernick tried too hard to spread around the ball. He understood that if he was successful in doing that, it would ultimately benefit the team. He didn't need to be "weaned" into doing that. So he threw to Delanie, who dropped the ball. He threw to Moss who made half-hearted efforts at fighting for the ball. Vernon is also not one to lay out for the ball. I dare say that if any of them was more reliable, they would have seen a lot more balls. It's not as if Moss and Vernon were open that much either. Vernon attracted double coverage. He tried forcing the ball into Moss with poor results.

Really the only reliable resort he had was Crabtree. He makes the judicious choice and people say he needs to stop doing that.

In truth other players need to step up. I agree with you: Of course Kaepernick will improve in recognizing reads and trends, but a greater onus is on certain players making themselves better targets.

BTW neither would I be concerned with Kaepernick being bullied into throwing to a particular receiver. If you watch his interaction with his teammates you realize that his rapport with them is at a different level.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:


Not every QB (or player, forthat matter) "needs" to sit first to "get used to the speed of the game". The stronger, psychologically speaking, are able absorb, assimilate and adapt to the game immediately and can start immediately. Look, for example, at Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton. It's not the coaching that makes these guys special. Nor should they have "sat" first. They didn't need that; they were ready. It's an inherent quality that they possess. Kaepernick belongs in that group. Elite QBs come from that group/type of player. They never come in awed by the game, looking lost.

I say this by way of background in order to put remarks like "he relies on Crabtree too much" or "he needs to learn how to find other receivers" into perspective. Apart from being quite condescending, it paints a picture of a pscychologically weak QB running home to momma at the first sign of distress. Someone who needs to be weaned away from his bad habits. So it's a good thing that Crabtree got hurt. Otherwise Kaepernick would never be able to extract himself from this dependency.



Seems like you are taking my words too harshly. I said that CK was one of the best QBs in the game right now and that he would only get better. How does that lead you to interpret my other remarks as character assassination? Psychologically weak QB? Just because he is a second year guy who may not see the entire field yet?

You must think Montana was a terrible QB because Walsh kept benching him when he made mistakes? But by bringing him to the sidelines and showing him his mistakes, Walsh developed one of the truly great QBs of all time...if not the greatest. I want the same for CK and his drive and ambition to improve will no doubt help him get there as well. He already has all the intelligence and physical tools necessary...now he needs help honing his game.

He relies on Crabtree too much. I made this statement and then clarified that there were many reasons for this, some quite reasonable--no other WR stepped up. That does not change the premise and I do not want Kaepernick to become too comfortable with one WR just because he is more reliable than the others. He ignored VD much of the time, who was often open and for the life of me it appears there has been too much politicking involved in the passing game. Just my perception and it is not aimed at CK alone, but also at his predecessor.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:


Not every QB (or player, forthat matter) "needs" to sit first to "get used to the speed of the game". The stronger, psychologically speaking, are able absorb, assimilate and adapt to the game immediately and can start immediately. Look, for example, at Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton. It's not the coaching that makes these guys special. Nor should they have "sat" first. They didn't need that; they were ready. It's an inherent quality that they possess. Kaepernick belongs in that group. Elite QBs come from that group/type of player. They never come in awed by the game, looking lost.

I say this by way of background in order to put remarks like "he relies on Crabtree too much" or "he needs to learn how to find other receivers" into perspective. Apart from being quite condescending, it paints a picture of a pscychologically weak QB running home to momma at the first sign of distress. Someone who needs to be weaned away from his bad habits. So it's a good thing that Crabtree got hurt. Otherwise Kaepernick would never be able to extract himself from this dependency.


Seems like you are taking my words too harshly. I said that CK was one of the best QBs in the game right now and that he would only get better. How does that lead you to interpret my other remarks as character assassination? Psychologically weak QB? Just because he is a second year guy who may not see the entire field yet?

You must think Montana was a terrible QB because Walsh kept benching him when he made mistakes? But by bringing him to the sidelines and showing him his mistakes, Walsh developed one of the truly great QBs of all time...if not the greatest. I want the same for CK and his drive and ambition to improve will no doubt help him get there as well. He already has all the intelligence and physical tools necessary...now he needs help honing his game.

He relies on Crabtree too much. I made this statement and then clarified that there were many reasons for this, some quite reasonable--no other WR stepped up. That does not change the premise and I do not want Kaepernick to become too comfortable with one WR just because he is more reliable than the others. He ignored VD much of the time, who was often open and for the life of me it appears there has been too much politicking involved in the passing game. Just my perception and it is not aimed at CK alone, but also at his predecessor.


I probably over reacted and went galloping off on a tangent here.

You're correct of course: Kaepernick needs to, and inevitably will, improve on his game. He has the tools. And with it will come better chemistry with other receivers.
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
my solution to losing crabs is to drink heavily.

hah!
LaMichael James also has great speed and great hands, another option.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by Team49ers:
LaMichael James also has great speed and great hands, another option.

you would actually have to have a offensive coordinator who would actually know how to use someone like james in the most effective way possible. god forbid roman would think about throwing a screen pass to james or hunter. the evils of a screen pass to our fast backs , its the scourge of our times
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Team49ers:
LaMichael James also has great speed and great hands, another option.

you would actually have to have a offensive coordinator who would actually know how to use someone like james in the most effective way possible. god forbid roman would think about throwing a screen pass to james or hunter. the evils of a screen pass to our fast backs , its the scourge of our times

With you on that 100%...can't believe "Mr Wrinkle" cant throw a couple in here and there.
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
With you on that 100%...can't believe "Mr Wrinkle" cant throw a couple in here and there.

I'll be very surprised if we don't see a few ways they can get James in space with the ball this season. They were working him in during the season last year. This year, they've got an entire off-season with him.
James was phenomenal running out of the backfield in the redzone in college...one of the reasons Harbaugh wanted him. I think they will move him around but would not be surprised if they had Gore and James in the backfield inside the twenty. Both can be effective receivers and both are tough runners. James seemed to disappear into the line and pop out in the endzone...this is the NFL and not as simple, but...maybe!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jun 11, 2013 at 4:21 PM ]
the solution


Matt Barrows ‏@mattbarrows 13s More receiver reinforcements: The 49ers signed WR Brandon Carswell to a two-year contract, the team announced.
cc, I am still not sure that with mangini here, roman may come around to using LMJ like the saints used Reggie Bush....also the same way sproles was used. Having a RB who gets a pass in backfield , either as a bailout or as a planned play is one thing. Having the receiver be LMJ is quite another. I was sure that is why JH drafted him...specifically with the reggie bush/sproles model in mind. Boy, was I ever wrong....which in retrospect, makes me once again wonder about just exactly how smart is roman. No question we lumped up on some teams, eg, New England. Then a few days later we get crushed by SEA. I still see LMJ as the answer to no crbs. Also, I am a lot higher on our receivers than others are. We have a helluva bunch of good passcatchers: boldin, Patton, Lockette, frank, Vernon, Vance, AJ, and .....LMJ. That is a very respectable stable of "pass catchers". Our problem is having an OC that THINKS to use these guys. Sure, I like roman, but he has sure put up some stinkers too. The non-use of LMJ for either passes behind LOS or maybe a yard over LOS is to me, pure waste of an incredibly talented guy , LMJ in space. I don't think there are a lot of LBs or DBs out there that can catch him, one on one.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
cc, I am still not sure that with mangini here, roman may come around to using LMJ like the saints used Reggie Bush....also the same way sproles was used. Having a RB who gets a pass in backfield , either as a bailout or as a planned play is one thing. Having the receiver be LMJ is quite another. I was sure that is why JH drafted him...specifically with the reggie bush/sproles model in mind. Boy, was I ever wrong....which in retrospect, makes me once again wonder about just exactly how smart is roman. No question we lumped up on some teams, eg, New England. Then a few days later we get crushed by SEA. I still see LMJ as the answer to no crbs. Also, I am a lot higher on our receivers than others are. We have a helluva bunch of good passcatchers: boldin, Patton, Lockette, frank, Vernon, Vance, AJ, and .....LMJ. That is a very respectable stable of "pass catchers". Our problem is having an OC that THINKS to use these guys. Sure, I like roman, but he has sure put up some stinkers too. The non-use of LMJ for either passes behind LOS or maybe a yard over LOS is to me, pure waste of an incredibly talented guy , LMJ in space. I don't think there are a lot of LBs or DBs out there that can catch him, one on one.

I think Mangini will very much sharpen Romans blades. I read a transcript of Roman and he said that Mangini is essentially a collaborator. I think we're going to see a much more comprehensive game plan. I personally think Mangini was the smartest move they made this offseason. We're going to see alot more of LMJ this year too. Hea bulked up alot and he adds a speed to our offense that ia going to.be very valuable down the stretch
  • Jcool
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet

For those asking about Austin Collie's visit with the 49ers, I'm told it went very well. Nothing immediate because of pending vacations
[ Edited by Jcool on Jun 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM ]
the solution to loosing crabs will be smashmouth football... toot toot! here comes the run game!! i hear were pretty good at it..