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Solution(s) to losing Crabs

  • 8749
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 16
Brandon Lloyd is right there... it's so simple. Money is the question.
Originally posted by Young2Rice4TD:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by Young2Rice4TD:
I've been watching some film of Vance Mcdonald and, while I hate to be a downer, he sucks. The only things worse than his blocking are his hands.

I'm sure his blocking can be improved with coaching but he's hands are a lost cause.

That's why some Gm's considered him the #2 TE in the draft, because he sucks.

*Insert Troll photo here*

Just like how some GM's considered AJ Jenkins the #2 reciever in the draft.

AJ Jenkins remains a work in progress. Anyone who writes him off now knows little about the game. And anyone who writes off McDonald now knows even less.

On the strength of what? A couple of clips on YouTube?
Both AJ and Vance have major potential and if they were on the free market right now they would be scooped up in 15 minutes if that long. Let them get a year of playing experience first before we judge. I didn't know that Bowman was an absolute beast until after he played his first full season as a sophomore. I think we need to give these 2 their shot at playing time also. Aside from that, I believe our staff knows which players can produce in their system
Great QBs spread the ball around. When the 49ers beat the Bengals in our most thrilling come from behind Superbowl triumph, Montana's winning pass went to John Taylor, not Jerry Rice, with under a minute to play.

In his first year as a starter, Kaep's favorite receiver was Crabtree. They made a good tandem, with Crabs putting up the best numbers of his career. However, with the Superbowl on the line, Kaep threw incomplete to Crabtree 3 times. The Ravens knew who Kaep was going to throw to, and their coverage adjusted accordingly. If you look at the film, other receivers, Davis for one, was open on those plays. In contrast, Davis was a forgotten receiver for much of the season.

Now Kaep's favorite target won't even suit up till late in the season. Kaep will have to learn to rely on other receivers. As he spreads the ball around more, he will become a better QB, and defenses will have a much more difficult time, because they can't cover all our receivers on each play.

We will miss Crabtree. But Crabtree's injury will accelerate Kaep's development into an even more formidable QB. Hopefully the game will slow down for Kaep a little more, increasing his ability to see more of the field as the play develops, rather than just Crabtree in single coverage before the snap, so lock on Crabtree.
[ Edited by mebemused on Jun 2, 2013 at 12:59 AM ]
Originally posted by mebemused:
Great QBs spread the ball around. When the 49ers beat the Bengals in our most thrilling come from behind Superbowl triumph, Montana's winning pass went to John Taylor, not Jerry Rice, with under a minute to play.

In his first year as a starter, Kaep's favorite receiver was Crabtree. They made a good tandem, with Crabs putting up the best numbers of his career. However, with the Superbowl on the line, Kaep threw incomplete to Crabtree 3 times. The Ravens knew who Kaep was going to throw to, and their coverage adjusted accordingly. If you look at the film, other receivers, Davis for one, was open on those plays. In contrast, Davis was a forgotten receiver for much of the season.

Now Kaep's favorite target won't even suit up till late in the season. Kaep will have to learn to rely on other receivers. As he spreads the ball around more, he will become a better QB, and defenses will have a much more difficult time, because they can't cover all our receivers on each play.

We will miss Crabtree. But Crabtree's injury will accelerate Kaep's development into an even more formidable QB. Hopefully the game will slow down for Kaep a little more, increasing his ability to see more of the field as the play develops, rather than just Crabtree in single coverage before the snap, so lock on Crabtree.

That's a very optimistic analysis. What if Kaep doesn't progess into this multioption thrower? What if a large portion to Kaeps success was Crab?

I think we need another reliable receiver. Im not a naysayer. I think we have lots of good guys but we lost Crabtree and Moss. They were the only reliable option Kaep had last year. We have a s**tload of wild cards. Patton, Jenkins, Mcdonald, Lockette. Manningham and Williams are both coming off injuries. We essentially only have one reliable option and that's Boldin.

Listen I watched the Ravens playoff games with the Patriots and Bronc. He's good and strong but I dont know how hes going to react to the laser beams Kaeps throws. Im not saying he can't do it but Crab has the smoothest hands and he could create separation. I dont think Boldin can create separation so these fast balls Kaep are throwing are going to be much harder to adjust to. Boldin also dropped some throw in the games I watched. Flacco is a smoother operator too. I don't want to jinx it though but its going to be hard to watch are main receiver go through an adjustment period and the only reliable option we have are rookies and ACL injuries.

I think are FO has not been one that takes risk. We went out and got Boldin for starters. We got Asomugha to shore up the secondary. It doesnt seem like their MO is to just let it ride. We lost are star reciever. The main target. We have a bunch of variable at receiver and I think we need some more veteran experience. I think we should hit the market or see what we can get in a trade.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,097
Originally posted by English:
AJ Jenkins remains a work in progress. Anyone who writes him off now knows little about the game. And anyone who writes off McDonald now knows even less.

On the strength of what? A couple of clips on YouTube?
good god, this the truth esp about mcdonald. How the heck can you judge this guy and what he may do for us? in regards to jenkins I have taken a 180 and I am more than happy to give this kid a second chance and I acknowledge how hard he has worked . I am so sick of people who cherry pick a couple of you tube clips to make their point either pro or con(and around here it is usually con) about their hate for a player whether it be alex smith,, craig dahl or mcdonald
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,097
Originally posted by 8749:
Brandon Lloyd is right there... it's so simple. Money is the question.
some things are not worth answering
My guess is different than your guess eonblue.

What we both agree on is needing reliable receivers to get back to the SB.

But I like your response because it raises an interesting, "Which came first, the chicken or egg?" question.

Who is more important in the equation QB -> WR = victory. 3 possibilities:
A) QB is more important
B) WR is more important
C) Equally important

We can throw C out because great QBs win no matter who is receiving. Look at Brett Farve beating us in 2010 with a strike to the endzone with a minute to play and 2 49er DBs within 4' of the receiver. We were the better team by far that day, controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. It was just Farve's ability to dare to throw into very tight windows that was the difference in that game, not a great receiver. Greg Jennings is a good receiver, at least a reliable receiver +, but not a great receiver. Farve is going to Canton.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d812f33ea/WK-3-Can-t-Miss-Play-Favre-s-game-winner

With the same logic, I can throw out B. Is Reggie Wayne a 1000 yd/yr receiver for 4 years in a row, without Manning throwing to him? Naw.
And if there is any doubt, look at what happened to Denver's receivers last year with the acquisition of Manning. Now Eric Decker is a stud WR.

That leaves C. I remember late last season, Phil Simms commenting on a bullet Kaepernick threw down field. The window was small, 20+ yds downfield, but the ball arrived before the DB's could fully react. The WR was open just a little bit, but the ball was there before the DBs could turn. Simms, a connoisseur of QBs, portrayed that throw as "special". He went on to say everyone was commenting on Kaep's fabulous running ability, but what stood out for Simms was his throws. They were that good. Simms said:

"He may be the most dynamic quarterback in the NFL," Simms said. "His arm is not good, it's special. If you watch the San Francisco 49ers ever since he became quarterback, you see these throws every single week. It's not only the power. It's the accuracy. That's what has really startled me. He can throw it hard on a line, but his touch passes down the field have been spectacular … Forget the running, that arm alone is enough to make you a franchise quarterback."

Here is the link: http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/01/14/simms-on-kaepernick-that-arm-alone-is-enough-to-make-you-a-franchise-qb/

While Kaep hasn't played enough games to be considered great, his ability to do what Simms marvelled at will make average receivers look good, and good receivers look great. As proof, look at Crabtree's numbers with Smith and with Kaepernick last season. Crabtree's breakout came when Kaepernick threw to him.

Next season: "We'll Kaep you."
[ Edited by mebemused on Jun 2, 2013 at 8:29 AM ]
Do nothing.

He can't break down a DB one one at the goal line anyway.
His best plays are clear outs and throw underneath short of first down and let him get it.
He has moves but no seperation.

Why not just throw it 10 yards for the 1st down? Can't get open. YOu have to clear it out first.
Throw about 5 yards, pray hard as hell, hopefully he gets the rest.
The response to those who really think the team should bring in Brandon Lloyd:



Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree fight for any ball in their area. They WANT the ball. Lloyd? Who knows what he wants.
Originally posted by mebemused:
My guess is different than your guess eonblue.

What we both agree on is needing reliable receivers to get back to the SB.

But I like your response because it raises an interesting, "Which came first, the chicken or egg?" question.

Who is more important in the equation QB -> WR = victory. 3 possibilities:
A) QB is more important
B) WR is more important
C) Equally important

We can throw C out because great QBs win no matter who is receiving. Look at Brett Farve beating us in 2010 with a strike to the endzone with a minute to play and 2 49er DBs within 4' of the receiver. We were the better team by far that day, controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. It was just Farve's ability to dare to throw into very tight windows that was the difference in that game, not a great receiver. Greg Jennings is a good receiver, at least a reliable receiver +, but not a great receiver. Farve is going to Canton.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d812f33ea/WK-3-Can-t-Miss-Play-Favre-s-game-winner

With the same logic, I can throw out B. Is Reggie Wayne a 1000 yd/yr receiver for 4 years in a row, without Manning throwing to him? Naw.
And if there is any doubt, look at what happened to Denver's receivers last year with the acquisition of Manning. Now Eric Decker is a stud WR.

That leaves C. I remember late last season, Phil Simms commenting on a bullet Kaepernick threw down field. The window was small, 20+ yds downfield, but the ball arrived before the DB's could fully react. The WR was open just a little bit, but the ball was there before the DBs could turn. Simms, a connoisseur of QBs, portrayed that throw as "special". He went on to say everyone was commenting on Kaep's fabulous running ability, but what stood out for Simms was his throws. They were that good. Simms said:

"He may be the most dynamic quarterback in the NFL," Simms said. "His arm is not good, it's special. If you watch the San Francisco 49ers ever since he became quarterback, you see these throws every single week. It's not only the power. It's the accuracy. That's what has really startled me. He can throw it hard on a line, but his touch passes down the field have been spectacular … Forget the running, that arm alone is enough to make you a franchise quarterback."

Here is the link: http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/01/14/simms-on-kaepernick-that-arm-alone-is-enough-to-make-you-a-franchise-qb/

While Kaep hasn't played enough games to be considered great, his ability to do what Simms marvelled at will make average receivers look good, and good receivers look great. As proof, look at Crabtree's numbers with Smith and with Kaepernick last season. Crabtree's breakout came when Kaepernick threw to him.

Next season: "We'll Kaep you."

First I'm not guessing. I think the stats support the production we can expect from the WR core. Which our WR core minus an injured manningham, crab, and williams and departed Moss, Walker doesnt have a receiver that crossed the 80 yard mark. Bruce Millar had 81 yards. Lol. Yea the things about what Simms said is it's all b******t. He's gushing. When Kaep struggles because he lost his #1 target and all he has is a bunch of wild cards that he has no chemistry with Simms isn't going to be there comfort us fans when we our team losses because we cant cross the 100yrd mark in passing. If you really wanted Kaep to succeed you would stop all this "We'll Kaep you" BS. It's to much pressure to put on the young kid in his first FULL season. The kid needs the tools to make it happen and at the moment were going to be starting the season with a WR core that has 0 yards and 0 catchs with him. I think we need a reliable #2 option for him. Not a big signing but a Moss or a Henderson. So we can make things easier on our golden boy. The thing about my guess opposed to your guess is if Kaep just starts blazing it with this group than we win the super bowl. Crab will come back and we will have a WR core that is just that much stronger. (which crab coming back and playing at his peak is something else entirely). Buuuuuut if maybe Kaep isn't Peyton Manning and all these rookies struggle against the nasty secondaries of the Hawks and Rams we may not make it out of division. We had trouble last year so I think were going to be wondering why we didn't try to reinforce the group when we have a chance. What worries me most is the fact Justin Smith and Frank Gore need a ring. They deserve a ring. I want the FO to do whatever they have to to make sure that happens. I want the closest thing to a guarantee you can get. Kaep isnt a guarantee and neither is the WR group. I realize you cant have a 100% but you can at least increase the chances with a veteran target for him to throw at.
  • 8749
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 16
Originally posted by GNielsen:
The response to those who really think the team should bring in Brandon Lloyd:



Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree fight for any ball in their area. They WANT the ball. Lloyd? Who knows what he wants.

He led the NFL in receiving yards with 1,448 yards for the 2010 season.
Originally posted by 8749:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
The response to those who really think the team should bring in Brandon Lloyd:



Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree fight for any ball in their area. They WANT the ball. Lloyd? Who knows what he wants.

He led the NFL in receiving yards. with 1,448 yards for the 2010 season.

Idk why people keep bringing that play up. Lloyd is a different player now then he was back then smh.
Originally posted by BMoore56:
Idk why people keep bringing that play up. Lloyd is a different player now then he was back then smh.

I don't know why people keep saying that. Didn't we all read why the Patriots didn't bring him back. The other players and the coaching staff didn't like his attitude on the practice field or during games. If he were as good as some people around here think, why didn't the Patriots want him back even though he told them he was willing to take a pay cut?

From NFL.com: "Lloyd didn't provide the vertical threat that the Patriots were hoping for, and there were reports that his erratic behavior was not a great fit in the locker room."

This Niner team is all about chemistry. It doesn't need Brandon Lloyd prancing around in the locker room talking about his bling. Hey, Bryant Young didn't like him. For a Niner fan, that should be the end of the argument.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by mebemused:
My guess is different than your guess eonblue.

What we both agree on is needing reliable receivers to get back to the SB.

But I like your response because it raises an interesting, "Which came first, the chicken or egg?" question.

Who is more important in the equation QB -> WR = victory. 3 possibilities:
A) QB is more important
B) WR is more important
C) Equally important


1) The egg came first. Two things that were not chickens f**ked and laid a chicken egg.

2) You forgot coaching as an option.

Crabtree went from "good" with Alex Smith to "great" with Kaepernick. Vernon Davis went from "very good" with Alex Smith to "afterthought" with Kaepernick (until the playoffs). I don't understand why people praise Kaepernick for elevating Crabtree's game, but don't blame him for Davis' lack of production.

I think all options (QB, WR, coaching) are factors and each can help compensate for the others. However, I think that of the three, WR is least likely to be the determining factor in a winning formula. There are just too many examples of great QBs having success regardless of who is playing WR. There also seem to be many examples of great WRs continually producing, but failing to help win games or elevate the play of the QB. Calvin Johnson and Matt Stafford are the best example of this, IMO. Record breaking receiving numbers, but only 4 wins and Stafford didn't even complete 60% of his passes. The other extreme is Larry Fitzgerald... the Cardinal's QB play was so inept that Larry Fitzgerald had the worst season of his career.