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GUESS THE 53!!

Good list Buck! I would put Manningham down as a lock and wonder how many spots will be taken by WRs. If six then there is one spot and one short term spot at the position with Williams being the leader due to experience in the system. Lockette has a shot having worked out with Kaepernick over the off season. Moore and Hall would really have to show something special to beat them out.

So, my list would be:

Crabtree
Boldin
Manningham (PUP)
Jenkins
Patton
Williams
Lockette (PS after Manningham returns--if he is eligible)

But Lockette is this year's darling and could be moved out by the experienced Moore or Hall...or...?
49er.com Question: Anyone understand why a few players are designated either DB or SS? Dahl is listed as a SS but no other Safety is listed specifically. Brock and Cox are listed as DBs. I can see listing guys who are S/CB blends as DBs, but then many more could be listed in this category. Many thought Dahl was a replacement for Goldson but he's listed as a SS.

Then on top of this the niners coaches insist that their S positions are interchangeable...hmmm...is 49er.com official? Quasi-official?
Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:
Originally posted by 49ers808:
1. Okoye makes the 53
2. BJ Daniels wins the #3 spot
3. Lockette makes it and contributes
4. Looney wins battle and starts at center, Goodwin gets cut
5. Culliver takes the slot corner role
6. AJ Jenkins wins #3 and proves lots of us wrong
7. Asomugha starts over Rogers, who then wants to be traded and gets his wish
8. None of our draft picks gets cut, they either make the team or ps or IR (Latt)
9. Nick Moody isn't just a special teamer, he's Willis and Bows backup and gets playing time
10. Darryl Morris takes Brock or Cox spot

Could totally see both Goodwin and Rogers playing for different teams this season. Those moves also make sense because it would save us around 9.2 million dollars, allowing us to work on extensions.....

That actually makes that an interesting prediction.
Hate to burst everyone's bubble but Ricardo Lockette is 27 years old and has 2 career NFL catches.
  • buck
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Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Hate to burst everyone's bubble but Ricardo Lockette is 27 years old and has 2 career NFL catches.

Most people think he is on the bubble, well at least I do.

He is on the team, so he has a chance to make the 53-man roster.

I am looking forward to see how the battle of the bubble plays out.
[ Edited by buck on May 18, 2013 at 8:19 AM ]
  • buck
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
49er.com Question: Anyone understand why a few players are designated either DB or SS? Dahl is listed as a SS but no other Safety is listed specifically. Brock and Cox are listed as DBs. I can see listing guys who are S/CB blends as DBs, but then many more could be listed in this category. Many thought Dahl was a replacement for Goldson but he's listed as a SS.

Then on top of this the niners coaches insist that their S positions are interchangeable...hmmm...is 49er.com official? Quasi-official?

Good question. I do not have a clue.

If you look at the 49er roster at 49er website and NFL website, the position designations are not the same.

http://prod.www.49ers.clubs.nfl.com/team/roster.html

http://www.nfl.com/teams/roster?d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&team=SF&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=persons.primary_Position.id.position_Id
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Personally I hope Tolzien because I'm not a fan of Mccoy, but I think it will be the latter


Considering pre season is played with mostly #2 and #3 qb's, I say let the pre season determine the #2 qb position. If McCoy and Tolzien are equal, which I think they will be, this is how I think they should approach Tolziens agent.

Scott Tolzien is a great player, we would like to sign him to a long term back up qb contract. We will give him a 5 year 5 million dollar contract with 1 million guaranteed. A player who has always faced cuts would jump at such a contract. With CK7 requiring a huge pay out soon, locking up a back up for next to the league minimum is key.
OK, I've looked into the 90 again and I'll have another go. My approach is to guess the "usual" gameday 46, add 7 backups/redshirts and any PUP/IRs.

OK, first the easy bit. The kicking team (3): Lee, Jennings, Dawson. That leaves us 43 gameday slots to fill.

Offense: 22

QB (3): CK, McCoy, Daniels (ST). After CK, any kind of permutation is likely in TC. I do think that unless McCoy underperforms horribly he'll be kept as veteran insurance in case Colin needs to miss a couple of weeks with a smallish injury (a major injury is too horrible to contemplate). If Daniels can contribute in ST then he's in, otherwise the PS is beckoning.

RB (5): Gire, Hunter, Miller, LMJ, Dixon (ST). That's a bit high, but I think LMJ will be dressed every game. If Dixon is outplayed by a DB/receiver for ST, then he's out, but as the incumbent I assume he still pulls it off.

TE (3): VD, McDonald, Celek. Again I assume that the incumbent blocking TE manages to fend off TC competition, but we'll see about this in practice.

WR (4): Crabs, Boldin, Jenkins, Kyle (ST). Manningham has to really show that he's back to his best, in which case he dresses instead of AJ. As far as Williams goes, as long as no other punt returner emerges in TC I have him as a lock. I can't assume that someone does emerge at this point. Who knows?

BTW, depending on scheme we can carry 5 WR and 4 RB for a given week, I think that 3 TE is almost certain to be standard.

OL (7): Boone, Iupati, Looney, Staley, Davis, Snyder, Kilgore. I assume Goodwin to be a goner. No way we carry fewer than 7 on gameday.

Defense: 21

DL (4): Dorsey, Justin, RayMac, Tukuafu (ST). Here it gets foggy. If Tank heals and can contribute straight away, he dresses. I assume he doesn't and therefore is stashed on slots 47-53. I also assume Dial to pretty much redshirt and be stashed in the same place. So the last Line position is Ian or Tukuafu.I go with Tuku because of his flexibility.

LB (8): Aldon, Brooks, Willis, Bowman, Haralson, Lemonier, Skuta (ST), Moody (ST). Again, this is a bit tough after the usual suspects are counted. Cam J and Fleming will also have a go, and Haralson really has to step up to beat them and Lemonier in camp. If he doesn't I see him cut, but here I assume he manages to do it. BTW, I think we carry 8 LB and 4 Linemen, considering how little we use our base D. But we could go with 5 DL and 7 LB according to how the ST assignments shape up.

DB (9): Rogers, Brown, Cully, Nnamdi, Whitner, Dahl, Reid, Spillman (ST), Brock (ST). These sound as if they're too many, and we could possibly only dress 8. This position is really affected by ST. I assume Nnamdi is worth keeping, but he's on the bubble.

7-man stash (spots 47-53): Tank, Patton, Dial, Manningham (or AJ if Mario dresses and we only activate 4 WR), Ian, an OLineman (e.g. Bykowski), another DB (e.g. Robinson or McBath)


PUP: Lattimore


For those who keep score, that means we carry 6 WR and 10 DBs in the 53, which is par for the course. 8 OL (which is the lowest I can think of as safe). I have 8 ST specialists in the 46 + the 3 of the kicking team.
Originally posted by 9erred:
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Personally I hope Tolzien because I'm not a fan of Mccoy, but I think it will be the latter


Considering pre season is played with mostly #2 and #3 qb's, I say let the pre season determine the #2 qb position. If McCoy and Tolzien are equal, which I think they will be, this is how I think they should approach Tolziens agent.

Scott Tolzien is a great player, we would like to sign him to a long term back up qb contract. We will give him a 5 year 5 million dollar contract with 1 million guaranteed. A player who has always faced cuts would jump at such a contract. With CK7 requiring a huge pay out soon, locking up a back up for next to the league minimum is key.


I agree that this would be the better result from a fiscal perspective, but . . .

1. McCoy and Tolzien are about the same size(?) And have about the same arm strength(?) Both are intelligent.

2. MCoy is more mobile. Important for the read option.

3. Throughout their respective careers, McCoy has been better. Both in college and pro. Does Tolzien sudden in their third year as a pro reverse that trend? I don't think so.

4. The Niners actually gave up something for McCoy and he has a great "can do" work ethic. Plus, he's been a starter on a team where the coach so obviously didn't like him. He over came that, won games, showed toughness and earned his teammates' respect.

Neither has great measurables, but I see McCoy as having the edge.
Originally posted by SD49ers:
I'd love it if most of that happened. I'd lie to see Goodwin stay another year and Rogers bounce back. I'd love to see what they could do with BJ. Culliver takes another step. AJ, please show up. I think everyone from our draft will maker the 53 or PS. Feelin' good about the 9ers right now. I'll add another bold prediction. Kap will continue to vex d's, win the super bowl and make the pro bowl. Kap will eventually be a HOFer.


Well Kaepernick better learn to process information a LOT faster. In every other respect he is "off the charts".
All bold but all realistic. This gets my approval
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The problem is that the Zone has already crowned Lockette & Patton for doing... wait for it...

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Kyle Williams, meanwhile, has proven himself as a weapon in the passing game & can also return kicks.

Even if you disagree with that, you have to acknowledge that fans like you are handing Lockette & Patton roster spots without any evidence that they can actually play.

Rookies by definition have done nothing and often get a roster spot, so handing Patton a roster spot is hardly strange.

I also think that Lockette is on the bubble. Although, I do think the idea that Kyle Williams has proven himself is a bit of a stretch.

Here is my breakdown:

Locks

1. Crabtree
2. Boldin
3. AJ Jenkins
4. Quinton Patton

My evidence in support of making Patton a lock is his college career. Patton played in 25 college games.
He had 183 catches for 2,594 yards and 24 scores. He averaged 14.2 yards a reception.
His wide receiver production grade (combined percentages of a teams receiving yards and touchdowns) was off the charts.

Patton earned a 79.32.

Justin Hunter (47.34) and Cordarelle Patterson (34.83) combined had a production grade of 82.17.

Wild Card

5. Manningham

If Manningham were not injured, he would be a lock to the make the team.
Manningham has played in 61 games and started 38 of those games.
He has had 202 receptions for 2,764 yards (13.7 Average) and 19 scores.

Bubble
.
Kyle Williams--29 games, 35 receptions, 461 yards (13.2 Average), 4 scores.
Marlon Moore--29 games, 12 receptions, 244 yards (20.3 Average), 2 scores.
Chad Hall—15 games, 14 receptions, 135 yards (9.6 Average), 2 scores.
Ricardo Lockette—2 games, 2 receptions, 105 yards (52.5 Average), 1 score.

Since we do not know what will happen with Manningham, it is difficult to know if the bubble players are fighting for one or two spots on the roster.
As far as I can tell, the bubble battle will be waged in organized team activities and training camp.

Both Kyle Williams and Chad Hall have experience returning punts, which may give them some advantage in the upcoming fight for a roster spot.

In 29 regular season games, Kyle Williams has returned 9 punts for 109 yards (12.1 Average).
In 15 regular season games, Chad Hall has returned 10 punts for 107 yards (10.7 Average).

The fact that you are even considering Chad Hall for a spot...

Here's the truth... Michael Crabtree & Kyle Williams are the only wide receivers on the roster that have been in the offense for two years. They're they only WR's on the team who have put in any time on the field out of this group with the 49ers in the past two years.

You can put Kyle on the field on Week 1 and not worry about whether or not he knows the plays by now. You can't do that with Patton or Lockette.

Kyle Williams will be on this team for the full duration of the 2013 season, guaranteed.
[ Edited by NickSh49 on May 18, 2013 at 2:28 PM ]
Originally posted by paulk205:
OK, I've looked into the 90 again and I'll have another go. My approach is to guess the "usual" gameday 46, add 7 backups/redshirts and any PUP/IRs.

OK, first the easy bit. The kicking team (3): Lee, Jennings, Dawson. That leaves us 43 gameday slots to fill.

Offense: 22

QB (3): CK, McCoy, Daniels (ST). After CK, any kind of permutation is likely in TC. I do think that unless McCoy underperforms horribly he'll be kept as veteran insurance in case Colin needs to miss a couple of weeks with a smallish injury (a major injury is too horrible to contemplate). If Daniels can contribute in ST then he's in, otherwise the PS is beckoning.

RB (5): Gire, Hunter, Miller, LMJ, Dixon (ST). That's a bit high, but I think LMJ will be dressed every game. If Dixon is outplayed by a DB/receiver for ST, then he's out, but as the incumbent I assume he still pulls it off.

TE (3): VD, McDonald, Celek. Again I assume that the incumbent blocking TE manages to fend off TC competition, but we'll see about this in practice.

WR (4): Crabs, Boldin, Jenkins, Kyle (ST). Manningham has to really show that he's back to his best, in which case he dresses instead of AJ. As far as Williams goes, as long as no other punt returner emerges in TC I have him as a lock. I can't assume that someone does emerge at this point. Who knows?

BTW, depending on scheme we can carry 5 WR and 4 RB for a given week, I think that 3 TE is almost certain to be standard.

OL (7): Boone, Iupati, Looney, Staley, Davis, Snyder, Kilgore. I assume Goodwin to be a goner. No way we carry fewer than 7 on gameday.

Defense: 21

DL (4): Dorsey, Justin, RayMac, Tukuafu (ST). Here it gets foggy. If Tank heals and can contribute straight away, he dresses. I assume he doesn't and therefore is stashed on slots 47-53. I also assume Dial to pretty much redshirt and be stashed in the same place. So the last Line position is Ian or Tukuafu.I go with Tuku because of his flexibility.

LB (8): Aldon, Brooks, Willis, Bowman, Haralson, Lemonier, Skuta (ST), Moody (ST). Again, this is a bit tough after the usual suspects are counted. Cam J and Fleming will also have a go, and Haralson really has to step up to beat them and Lemonier in camp. If he doesn't I see him cut, but here I assume he manages to do it. BTW, I think we carry 8 LB and 4 Linemen, considering how little we use our base D. But we could go with 5 DL and 7 LB according to how the ST assignments shape up.

DB (9): Rogers, Brown, Cully, Nnamdi, Whitner, Dahl, Reid, Spillman (ST), Brock (ST). These sound as if they're too many, and we could possibly only dress 8. This position is really affected by ST. I assume Nnamdi is worth keeping, but he's on the bubble.

7-man stash (spots 47-53): Tank, Patton, Dial, Manningham (or AJ if Mario dresses and we only activate 4 WR), Ian, an OLineman (e.g. Bykowski), another DB (e.g. Robinson or McBath)


PUP: Lattimore


For those who keep score, that means we carry 6 WR and 10 DBs in the 53, which is par for the course. 8 OL (which is the lowest I can think of as safe). I have 8 ST specialists in the 46 + the 3 of the kicking team.

Mario is 100% better a WR then Kyle Williams or AJ Jenkins is, he is a lock if healthy.

Kyle is no where near a lock IMO, he isn't to be trusted on punt returns. We need someone like Cox to step up, we have Kickoffs covered with James and Hunter.

We will likely continue the trend of 5 WR active, and one less RB if we keep Daniels active(If he makes it of course). I rather Dixon get cut, keep someone like Gray with more potential to develop. Or an extra OL. Dixon is useless, he doesn't get much as a back, we have 3 capable backs, plus young guy like Hampton, and plus Harper looks like a steal as a UDFA. Sorry Boobie but your days are numbered.
QB (3) - Colin Kaepernick, Colt McCoy, Scot Tolzien

Trading for Colt McCoy is like having somewhat of a downgraded version of Alex Smith. Still a QB who would be capable of winning games in the unfortunate event of an injury to CK. I think it also signals that while the staff may like Tolzien, they are not completely sold on him as the #2. He should be able to hold off BJ Daniels for the #3 position however.

RB (4)- Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, Anthony Dixon

Dixon did pretty well as a short yardage back this season. In order for someone else to replace him, they would have to outperform him in that role and play special teams. At the present time, I don't see anyone replacing Dixon.

FB(1)- Bruce Miller

WR (5)- Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, Kyle Williams, AJ Jenkins, Quinton Patton

I don't see us carrying six receivers until Mario Manningham returns. We don't use many receivers as it is and there is no sense in carrying 6 until Manningham returns. There are a lot of 'Zone favorites (like Lockette), but at the present time, he is like another Okoye, great measureables, but has proven nothing.

TE (3)- Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald, MarQueis Gray

OL (9)- Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Johnathan Goodwin, Alex Boone, Anthony Davis, Joe Looney, Dan Kilgore, Adam Snyder, Luke Marquadt

CB (5)- Carlos Rogers, Tarell Brown, Nmandi Asomougha, Perish Cox, Marcus Cooper. Hoping Cooper shows enough potential as a corner and can be a solid enough special teamer to push Brock off the roster.

S (4)- Eric Reid, Donte Whitner, Craig Dahl, CJ Spillman

LB (8) -Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Ahmad Brooks, Parys Haralson, Dan Skuta, Darius Fleming, Corey Lemonier

DL (7)- Ray McDonald, Glenn Dorsey, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, Tank Carradine, Demarcus Dobbs, Quinton Dial

ST- Andy Lee, Phil Dawson, Brian Jennings

PUP- Marcus Lattimore, Mario Manningham

Practice Squad- BJ Daniels, Lawrence Okoye, Cam Johnson, Trenton Robinson, Ricardo Lockette, Carter Bykowski (could just as easily be Marquadt. Whoever loses the battle for swing tackle could be headed to the PS if they show enough in camo/pre-season), Jewel Hampton (not sure if he has any eligibility left, but has a shot to push Dixon off the roster who should be a free agent after 2013. But he will have to replace him as a short yardage back and a special teamer).

I think I went the safe route with most of these roster spots, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some younger guys supplant players like Goodwin, Whitner, and Haralson.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
QB (3) - Colin Kaepernick, Colt McCoy, Scot Tolzien

Trading for Colt McCoy is like having somewhat of a downgraded version of Alex Smith. Still a QB who would be capable of winning games in the unfortunate event of an injury to CK. I think it also signals that while the staff may like Tolzien, they are not completely sold on him as the #2. He should be able to hold off BJ Daniels for the #3 position however.

RB (4)- Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, Anthony Dixon

Dixon did pretty well as a short yardage back this season. In order for someone else to replace him, they would have to outperform him in that role and play special teams. At the present time, I don't see anyone replacing Dixon.

FB(1)- Bruce Miller

WR (5)- Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, Kyle Williams, AJ Jenkins, Quinton Patton

I don't see us carrying six receivers until Mario Manningham returns. We don't use many receivers as it is and there is no sense in carrying 6 until Manningham returns. There are a lot of 'Zone favorites (like Lockette), but at the present time, he is like another Okoye, great measureables, but has proven nothing.

TE (3)- Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald, MarQueis Gray

OL (9)- Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Johnathan Goodwin, Alex Boone, Anthony Davis, Joe Looney, Dan Kilgore, Adam Snyder, Luke Marquadt

CB (5)- Carlos Rogers, Tarell Brown, Nmandi Asomougha, Perish Cox, Marcus Cooper. Hoping Cooper shows enough potential as a corner and can be a solid enough special teamer to push Brock off the roster.

S (4)- Eric Reid, Donte Whitner, Craig Dahl, CJ Spillman

LB (8) -Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Ahmad Brooks, Parys Haralson, Dan Skuta, Darius Fleming, Corey Lemonier

DL (7)- Ray McDonald, Glenn Dorsey, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, Tank Carradine, Demarcus Dobbs, Quinton Dial

ST- Andy Lee, Phil Dawson, Brian Jennings

PUP- Marcus Lattimore, Mario Manningham

Practice Squad- BJ Daniels, Lawrence Okoye, Cam Johnson, Trenton Robinson, Ricardo Lockette, Carter Bykowski (could just as easily be Marquadt. Whoever loses the battle for swing tackle could be headed to the PS if they show enough in camo/pre-season), Jewel Hampton (not sure if he has any eligibility left, but has a shot to push Dixon off the roster who should be a free agent after 2013. But he will have to replace him as a short yardage back and a special teamer).

I think I went the safe route with most of these roster spots, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some younger guys supplant players like Goodwin, Whitner, and Haralson.

Best so far LiefLong. I would however take Dixon off, put Celek on, maybe cut Snyder for Bykowski, but Snyder has the playing time so he probably makes it. Other wise good overall roster. I do like Daniels over Tolzien though. Due to the pistol offense.