There are 170 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Off-Season Post #2: Thoughts immediately after the draft (plus draft video)...

Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by rk1642:
Get your analysis but there is allot of potential in there and not immediate impact.

With all of our picks (and high ones at that), I expected more impact for this years campaign rather than just for potential.

If Lattimore can come back and stay healthy, I think it makes this draft look so much better but at the moment, I'm not that excited.

I get potential, for example, Reid may be better but he may not? And say what you will but Goldson made impact hits that set the tone in a lot of games and helped make our D a feared unit.

I just can't wait till preseason so I can see them play and I'm sure I'll have a better feeling about this draft at that time.


How many starting spots do you see on this team? "Immediate Impact"? Where is there opportunity for it? Good teams don't NEED immediate impact because they plan ahead.

The 49ers lost 2 important pieces. They replaced them both. They addressed OLB depth which was a problem and drafted Justins possible replacement. That replacement (Carradine) will probably be healthy enough to contribute to the rotation this year. Patton and Lattimore were gravy....and FOURTH ROUND PICKS. If you are looking for immediate impact players, you don't typically find them min the 4th round.

There simply aren't that many open spots for a starter.

As for Reid/Goldson, I honestly think Reid will be better. I was hedging my bets there because I dunno if he'll be better as a rookie.


That is my concern as well. I disagree with your statement that good teams don't need immediate impact players. By definition you are essentially saying the 9ers will be more than fine with the same team as last year which to me is very far from the truth. But, you are right to say typically you don't find them in the 4th round. That is exactly the problem I have with this draft, in particular I just don't think we did enough on the offensive side of the ball.

They were just showing a replay of the Seattle game here, it was painful to watch, we simply didn't have enough offensive weapons to overwhelm their D. It was further compounded by the loss of Vernon, that was why I was shocked we picked Vance McDonald who is a project and will require a lot of work. All I hope is if some of the back-up WRs can breakthrough in this offseason as it will give us a better chance. But, I just don't know which WR can really stretch the field as an x receiver for the deep ball to give us that added dimension. May be Ricardo if he can make the roster perhaps ? I am also hoping some of these multi-role rookies such as BJ Daniels and MarQueis Gray can give us an x-factor if Greg Roman can get creative with them. Bottomline is our O will have to get better if we are to stay in the hunt in this coming season.


Vance Mcdonald is not a no.1 TE though, he's been picked to take over Walker's role as a multi-purpose TE that blocks. Our number 1 TE will always be Vernon at this stage in terms of a go to target. We're a run first team so there's no point in drafting someone like Ertz or Eifert when McDonald will do more for our run game and also give us a big red zone target, he's a monster blocker apparantly.

I like the pick, it's not a glamour pick but it is one based on how our team plays and what type of player we need in that role to fit our type of offense.
Originally posted by Buchy:
Vance Mcdonald is not a no.1 TE though, he's been picked to take over Walker's role as a multi-purpose TE that blocks. Our number 1 TE will always be Vernon at this stage in terms of a go to target. We're a run first team so there's no point in drafting someone like Ertz or Eifert when McDonald will do more for our run game and also give us a big red zone target, he's a monster blocker apparantly.

I like the pick, it's not a glamour pick but it is one based on how our team plays and what type of player we need in that role to fit our type of offense.

No point? What happens if VD misses any playing time? I'm okay with not having drafted a # 1 type of TE like Eifert or Ertz... but we lose VD, and I have to seriously doubt that we have a replacement TE that will make defenses respect the TE position. But hey, most teams don't.. so we take our chances on VD staying healthy. Guess we could use Boldin in such a role, if truly pressed to.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
No point? What happens if VD misses any playing time? I'm okay with not having drafted a # 1 type of TE like Eifert or Ertz... but we lose VD, and I have to seriously doubt that we have a replacement TE that will make defenses respect the TE position. But hey, most teams don't.. so we take our chances on VD staying healthy. Guess we could use Boldin in such a role, if truly pressed to.

Yeah it's a lot on hoping Vernon stays injury free, i don't see Celek being able to replace him - I reckon we'd probably move more towards 3 or 4 WR sets. You're right, it is a risk - I don't know if we'd use Boldin or even Miller in that type of role.
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
No point? What happens if VD misses any playing time? I'm okay with not having drafted a # 1 type of TE like Eifert or Ertz... but we lose VD, and I have to seriously doubt that we have a replacement TE that will make defenses respect the TE position. But hey, most teams don't.. so we take our chances on VD staying healthy. Guess we could use Boldin in such a role, if truly pressed to.

Yeah it's a lot on hoping Vernon stays injury free, i don't see Celek being able to replace him - I reckon we'd probably move more towards 3 or 4 WR sets. You're right, it is a risk - I don't know if we'd use Boldin or even Miller in that type of role.

... and sure, it is possible that I am underrating Vance McD... I hope that I am. Maybe he can be a # 1 TE worthy of scaring defenses. Can't say that I see it, but we'll find out as we go.
Why is Maddog convinced that Vaccaro is better, because Reid didn't have a better season than the year before?
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by rk1642:
Get your analysis but there is allot of potential in there and not immediate impact.

With all of our picks (and high ones at that), I expected more impact for this years campaign rather than just for potential.

If Lattimore can come back and stay healthy, I think it makes this draft look so much better but at the moment, I'm not that excited.

I get potential, for example, Reid may be better but he may not? And say what you will but Goldson made impact hits that set the tone in a lot of games and helped make our D a feared unit.

I just can't wait till preseason so I can see them play and I'm sure I'll have a better feeling about this draft at that time.


How many starting spots do you see on this team? "Immediate Impact"? Where is there opportunity for it? Good teams don't NEED immediate impact because they plan ahead.

The 49ers lost 2 important pieces. They replaced them both. They addressed OLB depth which was a problem and drafted Justins possible replacement. That replacement (Carradine) will probably be healthy enough to contribute to the rotation this year. Patton and Lattimore were gravy....and FOURTH ROUND PICKS. If you are looking for immediate impact players, you don't typically find them min the 4th round.

There simply aren't that many open spots for a starter.

As for Reid/Goldson, I honestly think Reid will be better. I was hedging my bets there because I dunno if he'll be better as a rookie.


That is my concern as well. I disagree with your statement that good teams don't need immediate impact players. By definition you are essentially saying the 9ers will be more than fine with the same team as last year which to me is very far from the truth. But, you are right to say typically you don't find them in the 4th round. That is exactly the problem I have with this draft, in particular I just don't think we did enough on the offensive side of the ball.

They were just showing a replay of the Seattle game here, it was painful to watch, we simply didn't have enough offensive weapons to overwhelm their D. It was further compounded by the loss of Vernon, that was why I was shocked we picked Vance McDonald who is a project and will require a lot of work. All I hope is if some of the back-up WRs can breakthrough in this offseason as it will give us a better chance. But, I just don't know which WR can really stretch the field as an x receiver for the deep ball to give us that added dimension. May be Ricardo if he can make the roster perhaps ? I am also hoping some of these multi-role rookies such as BJ Daniels and MarQueis Gray can give us an x-factor if Greg Roman can get creative with them. Bottomline is our O will have to get better if we are to stay in the hunt in this coming season.


Vance Mcdonald is not a no.1 TE though, he's been picked to take over Walker's role as a multi-purpose TE that blocks. Our number 1 TE will always be Vernon at this stage in terms of a go to target. We're a run first team so there's no point in drafting someone like Ertz or Eifert when McDonald will do more for our run game and also give us a big red zone target, he's a monster blocker apparantly.

I like the pick, it's not a glamour pick but it is one based on how our team plays and what type of player we need in that role to fit our type of offense.


Vance McDonald is not a project. He needs to improve his blocking, but he's 270 pounds. He just wasn't asked to do a lot of that. So he already fits in as Delanie's replacement but bigger. He can run all of the routes and he's probably going to be blocking more in space which is already knows how to do.

We did get impact players in the draft. I think Patton, Reid, tank, McDonald, dial, Moody are all going to get snaps. Lattimore will be PUP for the whole year I think because of the tough cuts we have coming.

The other impact guys that we got were Dorsey and Asomugha and Boldin.......bring in the veteran guys to make the impact. The Rookies you don't want to have to throw out there, but if they can ball, great.

As far as stretching the field, we got AJ and Kyle Williams and Vernon. Hopefully manningham can come back and be other guy to stretch the field.
Mr. McGib, somehow, the second starting DL i hoped for became Vance McD. I have a hard time believing that Harbaalke made that pick if the guy is just raw talent. I think we are going to see something none of us expected, and some of that may come this yr. First off, I think Vance outweighs 3 of our LBs, and from the rear, when down at the LOS, he looks like another OT. I know Rice isn't the first school you think of when talking about football players, because the last guy I remember from Rice who made it big in the NFL was Buddy Dial, a RB i think....and that could have been back in the late 50s. Surely there have been others since then, but I do recall that one. I think Vance will be to TE what Aldon was to OLB/DE. No joke. Trent/JH passed on some pretty good DEs and took Vance instead. My guess he is a starter by midseason. The tapes I have seen were few...but impressive. Also, going to Rice....well, everyone there is smarter than all get out. Learning plays won't be an issue. Time will tell, but i think our coach/GM saw something we don't know about. Certainly a friendly call from Rice's HC to JH could have been involved in it.
Originally posted by Rascal:
I disagree with your statement that good teams don't need immediate impact players. By definition you are essentially saying the 9ers will be more than fine with the same team as last year which to me is very far from the truth.

Kaep was only the starter for half the season and we lost 2 of our best pass rushers to injury right before the playoffs started. Yet we still managed to get a few yards away from a SB win.

On paper, we get better by going with (more or less) the same team. We just have to make sure we dont go to Seattle in the playoffs

Also, I will draft a Polamalu (hofer who didnt start his rookie year) over a Cadillac Williams (huge rookie numbers, never reached that peak again) every time.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Mr. McGib, somehow, the second starting DL i hoped for became Vance McD. I have a hard time believing that Harbaalke made that pick if the guy is just raw talent. I think we are going to see something none of us expected, and some of that may come this yr. First off, I think Vance outweighs 3 of our LBs, and from the rear, when down at the LOS, he looks like another OT. I know Rice isn't the first school you think of when talking about football players, because the last guy I remember from Rice who made it big in the NFL was Buddy Dial, a RB i think....and that could have been back in the late 50s. Surely there have been others since then, but I do recall that one. I think Vance will be to TE what Aldon was to OLB/DE. No joke. Trent/JH passed on some pretty good DEs and took Vance instead. My guess he is a starter by midseason. The tapes I have seen were few...but impressive. Also, going to Rice....well, everyone there is smarter than all get out. Learning plays won't be an issue. Time will tell, but i think our coach/GM saw something we don't know about. Certainly a friendly call from Rice's HC to JH could have been involved in it.

Oh, I am not really calling him "raw talent" or condemning the pick. The only thing I have been suggesting.. is that I don't see a special starting TE in him. That to me, he seems like a good complement to play along with VD in our multiple TE packages (like Walker).. but that IF we were to lose VD's services for whatever reason.. McD doesn't strike me as a true # 1 TE weapon that defenses would fear.

That, I admit, isn't really fair... and I hope that I am wrong about that in the coming years.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Mr. McGib, somehow, the second starting DL i hoped for became Vance McD. I have a hard time believing that Harbaalke made that pick if the guy is just raw talent. I think we are going to see something none of us expected, and some of that may come this yr. First off, I think Vance outweighs 3 of our LBs, and from the rear, when down at the LOS, he looks like another OT. I know Rice isn't the first school you think of when talking about football players, because the last guy I remember from Rice who made it big in the NFL was Buddy Dial, a RB i think....and that could have been back in the late 50s. Surely there have been others since then, but I do recall that one. I think Vance will be to TE what Aldon was to OLB/DE. No joke. Trent/JH passed on some pretty good DEs and took Vance instead. My guess he is a starter by midseason. The tapes I have seen were few...but impressive. Also, going to Rice....well, everyone there is smarter than all get out. Learning plays won't be an issue. Time will tell, but i think our coach/GM saw something we don't know about. Certainly a friendly call from Rice's HC to JH could have been involved in it.

Oh, I am not really calling him "raw talent" or condemning the pick. The only thing I have been suggesting.. is that I don't see a special starting TE in him. That to me, he seems like a good complement to play along with VD in our multiple TE packages (like Walker).. but that IF we were to lose VD's services for whatever reason.. McD doesn't strike me as a true # 1 TE weapon that defenses would fear.

That, I admit, isn't really fair... and I hope that I am wrong about that in the coming years.

I can't say 100% that he's going to be a great player, but I think its pretty clear that Harbaugh liked him. As a team, they liked him enough to move up to get him. He had the longest arms in teh draft AND did the most reps on the bench. If you know anything about these things, typically longer armed guys have trouble on the bench...this guy had the longest arms AND the most reps.

Obviously, that doesn't make him a player...just sayin'....that means he has strength to block, long arms to prevent long armed defenders from pushing him aside and give Kaep a large window when throwing to him. The guy is an athlete...plain and simple.

He doesn't need to be Vernon Davis. We already have Vernon Davis. He needs to be a swiss army knife player who can block and catch some passes and play from a number of different formations....all of which he did in college.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I can't say 100% that he's going to be a great player, but I think its pretty clear that Harbaugh liked him. As a team, they liked him enough to move up to get him. He had the longest arms in teh draft AND did the most reps on the bench. If you know anything about these things, typically longer armed guys have trouble on the bench...this guy had the longest arms AND the most reps.

Obviously, that doesn't make him a player...just sayin'....that means he has strength to block, long arms to prevent long armed defenders from pushing him aside and give Kaep a large window when throwing to him. The guy is an athlete...plain and simple.

He doesn't need to be Vernon Davis. We already have Vernon Davis. He needs to be a swiss army knife player who can block and catch some passes and play from a number of different formations....all of which he did in college.

Yes, I know about arm length and bench reps.

Hey, all sounds fine to me. Again, I am not blasting this pick.

To the last part, as I said, he MAY need to be VD in the sense that he MAY have to fill in as the # 1 if VD misses any time. I see why we drafted him (to fill in as our Walker). The only thing in question for me is.. if he is forced into a # 1 TE role... can he make defenses focus on him? I hope he can.. but I do not particularly see it in him.

Just like with all picks.. I can offer some optimism and know that Baalke and Co. do more homework than I. So, welcome to the 49ers, Vance McD.
Great read as usual Marvin, thanks for taking the time to write consistently.

Comments on your comments--
1) Reid is a FS and will become the intellectual leader of this defense...setting the lineup and calling out coverages. In this he was a logical replacement for not only Goldson this year but Whitner next year (while staying at FS--I hope).
2) Carradine is an easy like--good value and at worst he will be a better back up than the team has currently.
3) McDonald--my favorite pick! He seems like a combination between Walker and Brent Jones...knows how to find the open spot and can play all over the place.

The rest are potential and should really push veterans during training camp. I can't predict how many of these guys make the team but most sure have a shot.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on May 6, 2013 at 4:00 PM ]
Originally posted by Buchy:
Vance Mcdonald is not a no.1 TE though, he's been picked to take over Walker's role as a multi-purpose TE that blocks. Our number 1 TE will always be Vernon at this stage in terms of a go to target. We're a run first team so there's no point in drafting someone like Ertz or Eifert when McDonald will do more for our run game and also give us a big red zone target, he's a monster blocker apparantly.

I like the pick, it's not a glamour pick but it is one based on how our team plays and what type of player we need in that role to fit our type of offense.

Kaep targetted Delanie very frequently last season and in fact even to the point when Vernon was wondering why he hadn't be targetted more. The so-called No. 2 TE is absolutely KEY for us cos Vernon gets double-team all the time and the 2nd guy can draw coverage off him. If you get a guy like McDonald which we did as opposed to a legit playmaking ball catcher,such as Ertz or Eifert, you are essentially downgrading our offense to put it mildly !!

The idea of us being a run team first is really so passe. We do run the ball and is an integral part of our game, but just look at our share of snaps, it is probably closer to 50/50 these days with Kaep under center as opposed to the Alex Smith era. We have tansformed into a dynamic offense and must keep up the momentum by giving Kaep more and better weapons.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Vance Mcdonald is not a no.1 TE though, he's been picked to take over Walker's role as a multi-purpose TE that blocks. Our number 1 TE will always be Vernon at this stage in terms of a go to target. We're a run first team so there's no point in drafting someone like Ertz or Eifert when McDonald will do more for our run game and also give us a big red zone target, he's a monster blocker apparantly.

I like the pick, it's not a glamour pick but it is one based on how our team plays and what type of player we need in that role to fit our type of offense.

Kaep targetted Delanie very frequently last season and in fact even to the point when Vernon was wondering why he hadn't be targetted more. The so-called No. 2 TE is absolutely KEY for us cos Vernon gets double-team all the time and the 2nd guy can draw coverage off him. If you get a guy like McDonald which we did as opposed to a legit playmaking ball catcher,such as Ertz or Eifert, you are essentially downgrading our offense to put it mildly !!

The idea of us being a run team first is really so passe. We do run the ball and is an integral part of our game, but just look at our share of snaps, it is probably closer to 50/50 these days with Kaep under center as opposed to the Alex Smith era. We have tansformed into a dynamic offense and must keep up the momentum by giving Kaep more and better weapons.

Hmmm. Take this guys conjecture on McDonald not being legit, or wait and see what he can do on the field and discover why one of the best TE handlers in the game wanted him. Tough decision.
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Vance McDonald is not a project. He needs to improve his blocking, but he's 270 pounds. He just wasn't asked to do a lot of that. So he already fits in as Delanie's replacement but bigger. He can run all of the routes and he's probably going to be blocking more in space which is already knows how to do.

We did get impact players in the draft. I think Patton, Reid, tank, McDonald, dial, Moody are all going to get snaps. Lattimore will be PUP for the whole year I think because of the tough cuts we have coming.

The other impact guys that we got were Dorsey and Asomugha and Boldin.......bring in the veteran guys to make the impact. The Rookies you don't want to have to throw out there, but if they can ball, great.

As far as stretching the field, we got AJ and Kyle Williams and Vernon. Hopefully manningham can come back and be other guy to stretch the field.


McDonald is a project, even he openly admits to the media that he is massively under-developed. It will take a while to get him going.

The impact playmakers that I was referring to is in the context of the offensive side of the ball. Anquan is great, AJ, Quinton and Ricardo we don't know whether they will be ready. Mario will definitely not be ready.

As for stretching the field, Kyle is more of a slot receiver, AJ we have no idea what he can do, Vernon is more of a short to intermediate target. That's about it. We don't have a legit deep threat wideout !! I have been saying that for years. When Randy came in, he was supposed to be the guy, but of course that never happened. We needed to get a tall deep threat wideout from the draft who can take the top off DBs going for the deep ball. But, is too late now, let's hope may be Quinton and/or Ricardo can play the deep ball.