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MARCUS LATTIMORE is a 49er!

Not knocking Gore, but I hope Lattimore earns the starting job this upcoming year. The good news about his injuries is no nerve damage, that's big. He should be able to perform as well as he did in college. He is a very good pass catcher and was also one of the best at pass protection.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
even if lattimore

even if lattimire
This whole lattimore project is a bit of a long shot. We'll see. I also wouldn't be hurrying this guy back. A great goal would be having him active for say 5-9 games and participate in say 5-10 days of contact practice.

I am not into the personnel theory of how we get over the top anyway. We draft superman or land a 20 sack stud in the draft or lattimore becomes the next Jim Brown. That won't cure what ails us, as Strider said. We need to change the playbook and improve the qb play. That will take the load off the d. Sticking in better skill players won't get us over the hump IMO. So I have officially stopped fantasizing about all the projects we are working on.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
This whole lattimore project is a bit of a long shot. We'll see. I also wouldn't be hurrying this guy back. A great goal would be having him active for say 5-9 games and participate in say 5-10 days of contact practice.

I am not into the personnel theory of how we get over the top anyway. We draft superman or land a 20 sack stud in the draft or lattimore becomes the next Jim Brown. That won't cure what ails us, as Strider said. We need to change the playbook and improve the qb play. That will take the load off the d. Sticking in better skill players won't get us over the hump IMO. So I have officially stopped fantasizing about all the projects we are working on.

Getting better at skill positions will help Kap play better.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
This whole lattimore project is a bit of a long shot. We'll see. I also wouldn't be hurrying this guy back. A great goal would be having him active for say 5-9 games and participate in say 5-10 days of contact practice.

I am not into the personnel theory of how we get over the top anyway. We draft superman or land a 20 sack stud in the draft or lattimore becomes the next Jim Brown. That won't cure what ails us, as Strider said. We need to change the playbook and improve the qb play. That will take the load off the d. Sticking in better skill players won't get us over the hump IMO. So I have officially stopped fantasizing about all the projects we are working on.

I'm in this camp as well. I don't care if we have Aaron Rodgers or Adrian Peterson...we have PLENTY of skill positions and depth and the deepest roster in the NFL (and its about to get deeper). You put AP back there and run him up the gut against a stacked 9-man box between the tackles on predictable calls on first downs and tell me if he'd do any better than 13 yards in an NFCCG. Once Tukuafu went down, that is when we s/h gone to a single back formation and run Gore from more PS spread formations. Gore would have had more time/space to find holes and it would have been less predictable (is he in to pass protect or run?). Also, we could have absolutely exploited the Hawks utilizing Gore, Hunter and James as outlets all game long (they were once again, wide open, d/t the added focus on VD, Crabtree and Boldin on sidelines and intermediate/deeper go-routes).
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 18, 2014 at 7:26 AM ]
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
This whole lattimore project is a bit of a long shot. We'll see. I also wouldn't be hurrying this guy back. A great goal would be having him active for say 5-9 games and participate in say 5-10 days of contact practice.

I am not into the personnel theory of how we get over the top anyway. We draft superman or land a 20 sack stud in the draft or lattimore becomes the next Jim Brown. That won't cure what ails us, as Strider said. We need to change the playbook and improve the qb play. That will take the load off the d. Sticking in better skill players won't get us over the hump IMO. So I have officially stopped fantasizing about all the projects we are working on.

Getting better at skill positions will help Kap play better.

It's possible...but how do we upgrade skill positions of Boldin, Crabtree, Patton, VD, McDonald, Hunter, Gore, James, Miller, etc.?

5 of those skill position guys are PB or All-Pro players. It's possible to upgrade Patton but how many 3 and 4 WR sets do we run? We've gone away from the Walker-like H-back so the focus will be on continuing to develop our 2nd round pick in McDonald (maybe use him more as a receiver this year?)...Gore is still an excellent back and Hunter/James have shown that they make the most out of the very few carries they get. We have Hampton who's put in his time and we red-shirted a first round talent in Lattimore who is now ready. So I "guess" there is potential for an upgrade at the RB skill position but is it going to happen this year?
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 18, 2014 at 7:31 AM ]
I wouldn't mind drafting Carlos Hyde and JC Copeland (500 lbs combined), especially if we lose Dixon and James.
Gore is going to be Gore for the 1st half of the season. 120 carries - 480 yards. Lattimore could use camp, preseason, weeks 1 - 8 to continue to strengthen the knee and learn assignments. He'll get some carries, probably as many as Hunter. Weeks 9 - 17, the balance looks more like Gore/Lattimore/Hunter 50/40/10.

Once players hit the playoffs, they're no longer rookies...this is where Lattimore can be unleashed. The problem with those distribution predictions are defenses knowing what RB2 and RB3 are doing on the field. Like in Cinci with BJGE and Gio. It's just obvious what certain players are doing on the field. Lattimore needs to run the same runs from the same formations as Frank for both backs to be effective. Lattimore has run outside/inside his entire college career. There is no reason for him to be a specialty back. WZ will explode if we use him from the same 3 formations and he runs the same 5 runs EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Don't expect Lattimore to see and hit the holes like Gore does. He will be a work in progress. Will have to have patience. May never see and hit the hole like Gore but at this point in Gore's career, Lattimore will bring more power, speed and elusiveness.
[ Edited by 60sFan on Feb 18, 2014 at 10:08 AM ]
I think all of our running backs will see an uptick in YPC because I expect improvement from the passing game. Kap has the off season to work with a healthier Crabtree maybe Boldin and Patton. Also Vance has a year under his belt already then you have whatever rookies we draft. We should be formidable passing the ball this year so perhaps Frank and company get the added benefit of a man being taken away from the box defensively. I expect better balance this year and an even more productive running game
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's possible...but how do we upgrade skill positions of Boldin, Crabtree, Patton, VD, McDonald, Hunter, Gore, James, Miller, etc.?

5 of those skill position guys are PB or All-Pro players. It's possible to upgrade Patton but how many 3 and 4 WR sets do we run? We've gone away from the Walker-like H-back so the focus will be on continuing to develop our 2nd round pick in McDonald (maybe use him more as a receiver this year?)...Gore is still an excellent back and Hunter/James have shown that they make the most out of the very few carries they get. We have Hampton who's put in his time and we red-shirted a first round talent in Lattimore who is now ready. So I "guess" there is potential for an upgrade at the RB skill position but is it going to happen this year?

Yeah, this is a pretty good observation. We have a CRAPLOAD of skill now!! Yet, our QB throws 58% and Gore goes 14 yards / 11 attempts in nfcc.

Upgrading the talent is not the issue IMO. We have the players on both sides to beat the seahawks twice in a year (i.e. win the super bowl).

We just don't.
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's possible...but how do we upgrade skill positions of Boldin, Crabtree, Patton, VD, McDonald, Hunter, Gore, James, Miller, etc.?

5 of those skill position guys are PB or All-Pro players. It's possible to upgrade Patton but how many 3 and 4 WR sets do we run? We've gone away from the Walker-like H-back so the focus will be on continuing to develop our 2nd round pick in McDonald (maybe use him more as a receiver this year?)...Gore is still an excellent back and Hunter/James have shown that they make the most out of the very few carries they get. We have Hampton who's put in his time and we red-shirted a first round talent in Lattimore who is now ready. So I "guess" there is potential for an upgrade at the RB skill position but is it going to happen this year?

I'm going to agree with you on Boldin, Crabtree, VD and Miller. But even where Boldin and Crabtree are concerned, they're both possession receivers. The receiving corps could use a tall, rangy red zone threat and it could definitely use someone with elite speed. I love Gore, but to me his usefulness now is doing what he now does best - recognizing and blocking the blitz. McDonald is going to have to show more before I think he can't be upgraded. I'm not nearly as high on James as I used to be - he booted a punt in the championship game, he doesn't seem to have whatever it takes to break long ones very often and he fumbles at very inopportune moments like driving for a score in a Super Bowl. Patton may be a great addition but we don't really know yet - we do know that he doesn't have elite breakaway speed. At running back, Hunter has the speed to outrun guys, but he just doesn't seem big enough. Lattimore has the speed if his knees have healed. Let's remember that Gore came to the team having survived major surgery to both knees and he had everything he needed for lots of seasons.
Originally posted by crake49:
I'm going to agree with you on Boldin, Crabtree, VD and Miller. But even where Boldin and Crabtree are concerned, they're both possession receivers. The receiving corps could use a tall, rangy red zone threat and it could definitely use someone with elite speed. I love Gore, but to me his usefulness now is doing what he now does best - recognizing and blocking the blitz. McDonald is going to have to show more before I think he can't be upgraded. I'm not nearly as high on James as I used to be - he booted a punt in the championship game, he doesn't seem to have whatever it takes to break long ones very often and he fumbles at very inopportune moments like driving for a score in a Super Bowl. Patton may be a great addition but we don't really know yet - we do know that he doesn't have elite breakaway speed. At running back, Hunter has the speed to outrun guys, but he just doesn't seem big enough. Lattimore has the speed if his knees have healed. Let's remember that Gore came to the team having survived major surgery to both knees and he had everything he needed for lots of seasons.

Sure, we can pick and nit here and there, but we have the guys right now to bring it all home. Who does Seattle have?
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Sure, we can pick and nit here and there, but we have the guys right now to bring it all home. Who does Seattle have?

I guess my over-arching problem with this line of thinking is that having even the best players doesn't guarantee anything. Do you think this team is "stacked?" I think it's a real good team. But I keep reminding people that the Niners team in 1985, 86 and 87 had the greatest receiver of all time complimented by probably the best #2 the team has ever had, Joe Montana under center, Ronnie Lott in the secondary, two pro-bowl corners, Craig and Rathman at running back, a great offensive line and a great defense - they were one and done in the playoffs every one of those years. And then in 88, they went to 6-5 before they turned it around and went on an awesome run.

So, I just never get this expectation some fans have these days that they somehow SHOULD be winning a championship because it's a good team. But, to answer your question, this year Seattle had one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. They completely shut down the highest scoring offense in the history of the game.
[ Edited by crake49 on Feb 18, 2014 at 12:44 PM ]
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's possible...but how do we upgrade skill positions of Boldin, Crabtree, Patton, VD, McDonald, Hunter, Gore, James, Miller, etc.?

5 of those skill position guys are PB or All-Pro players. It's possible to upgrade Patton but how many 3 and 4 WR sets do we run? We've gone away from the Walker-like H-back so the focus will be on continuing to develop our 2nd round pick in McDonald (maybe use him more as a receiver this year?)...Gore is still an excellent back and Hunter/James have shown that they make the most out of the very few carries they get. We have Hampton who's put in his time and we red-shirted a first round talent in Lattimore who is now ready. So I "guess" there is potential for an upgrade at the RB skill position but is it going to happen this year?

I'm going to agree with you on Boldin, Crabtree, VD and Miller. But even where Boldin and Crabtree are concerned, they're both possession receivers. The receiving corps could use a tall, rangy red zone threat and it could definitely use someone with elite speed. I love Gore, but to me his usefulness now is doing what he now does best - recognizing and blocking the blitz. McDonald is going to have to show more before I think he can't be upgraded. I'm not nearly as high on James as I used to be - he booted a punt in the championship game, he doesn't seem to have whatever it takes to break long ones very often and he fumbles at very inopportune moments like driving for a score in a Super Bowl. Patton may be a great addition but we don't really know yet - we do know that he doesn't have elite breakaway speed. At running back, Hunter has the speed to outrun guys, but he just doesn't seem big enough. Lattimore has the speed if his knees have healed. Let's remember that Gore came to the team having survived major surgery to both knees and he had everything he needed for lots of seasons.

Nice...so at the end of the day, we have a chance to upgrade maybe Patton and McDonald and Gore. Gore will not go down w/o a fight though so Lattimore/Hampton/Draft/Hunter/James will have to earn the trust of the coaches. And let's be honest, this coaching staff, aside from Reid (where he would have started either way), rookie's, no matter where they are drafted, just aren't going to get much, if any PT. And is a rookie WR (even first round) really going to warrant PT over Boldin & Crabtree? We also use VD/McDonald in the slot and out at WR as well. We have a 350 page playbook so unless a first round rookie comes in a blows Patton out of the water AND is an excellent return man, he isn't going to see the field until a year or two down the road when Crabtree/Boldin's leave/contract expires. That said, I do expect Boldin's numbers to drop WAY off now that Crabtree is back to health and the #1. So perhaps the FO can convince him to mentor and help develop a young #1 WR draft pick? The bottom line is, it's going to be hard to get anyone else on the field esp. given our current personnel and offensive philosophy (i.e. power running game + intermediate passing game).