The Quinton Patton Tank of Truth

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
We are really making it easy for Seattle.

he'll be back. i think by the time we play seattle all our receivers should be back

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Falling in love with something the way we WANT it to be usually clouds reality.

[Edited:]What I see from Harbaugh/Roman is a stubborn, yes, even arrogant attitude much of the time. They chose a guy with a cannon arm that could gun the ball down the field unlike any other over a guy who was extremely effective at using those short zones. So now, when we have some guys who COULD run those short routes effectively, they are not used that way. It looks to me like pure stubbornness. They won't use the short routes because to do that would validate the effectiveness of Alex Smith which runs counter to the move they made to Kaepernick.
[Edited]
What they should be doing is teaching Kaepernick to use those short zones with touch. This would compliment his deep ball ability and make him even more effective when he does throw the deep ball. Instead, in all three of these last 3 games, CK has REPEATEDLY passed up open receivers in short zones in favor of the longer, and yes, less safe pass. Those zones are where both Williams and Patton could be used effectively. I'm hoping but not holding my breath.

Falling in love with Patton? No, it's more a matter that his talents seem more attuned to the system being used. Many have been clamoring for Baldwin or Moore, which would also be logical...big guys who can block or take guys deep to get them out of the way.

So, if Williams is not the type of WR they can use effectively... Are they really that stubborn or are they not ready to make a switch to a guy less seasoned in the system? To me, Williams seems like the type of guy suited for many of the traditional WCO routes...if he runs them tightly enough. Just not the way they want to play him.

...and that is my problem. They have a guy that they could use to make the passing game more effective but their stubbornness prevents them from doing so.

Originally posted by dj43:
...and that is my problem. They have a guy that they could use to make the passing game more effective but their stubbornness prevents them from doing so.

Guess I've resolved to accept the Harbaugh version of the WCO! When he was hired I talked to some Stanford fans and they all talked about the power running game. Not one of them talked about a clever passing attack...or any passing attack. So I decided to love the team with it's new approach and try not to dwell on the past...like I could actually do that!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
...and that is my problem. They have a guy that they could use to make the passing game more effective but their stubbornness prevents them from doing so.

Guess I've resolved to accept the Harbaugh version of the WCO! When he was hired I talked to some Stanford fans and they all talked about the power running game. Not one of them talked about a clever passing attack...or any passing attack. So I decided to love the team with it's new approach and try not to dwell on the past...like I could actually do that!

Yep, me too.

Harbaugh's version of the WCO isn't WCO. He has given lip service to Bill Walsh and what a great mentor he was, but he is far closer to Bo Schembechler than Bill Walsh. In fact, his offense would be unrecognizable to Walsh.

In the end, I really don't care which he runs as long as the team wins. To that point, when Harbaugh arrived this roster was largely filled with players in the Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary "impose our will on the ground" mode and pass if we are forced to do so. Nolan came out of the Jamal Lewis/Trent Dilfer Baltimore mold. He wanted a herd of bulldozers in the OL, a RB that could pound along behind them, and a QB that just didn't lose the game. Baltimore won a SB with that with Nolan as DC and he brought that vision here. To match the vision, we drafted a bunch of huge OL who could run block all day but were not particularly adept at pass protection. That is the roster Harbaugh inherited, and for the most part, it matches well with his Bo Schembechler heritage. Consequently, we aren't seeing anything close to a WCO style attack.

In a true WCO, both Williams and Patton could be very effective going in motion or coming out of the slot where opponents could not just put a big body on them and prevent them from getting into the pass route. Walsh would love to compliment those two quick guys with Baldwin and Boldin, both of whom have the strength to battle big DBs in man coverage. Right now, Williams out of the slot, with B & B outside and Vernon Davis at TE would make a pretty darn good receiving corp in a true WCO. The question is: do Harbaugh and Roman even know what that looks like?

Originally posted by dj43:


Now don't jump the gun here but...Williams is more on the pattern of a Wes Welker. Welker is small and quick. Brady/Manning rarely put him in places where he had to compete

The problem is this.....Welker is a great route runner, Kyle Williams is a s**tty, lousy route runner going back to his college days. This is where your comparison falls apart, just being small and undersized doesn't make you a good slot receiver, playing in the slot you have to show even more superior route running, Williams hasn't even even slightly shown that.

Originally posted by 9NERNATE:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by dj43:
It is good news that this is a metatarsal bone. Those usually do heal well. However, they can also become problematic if not allowed to heal fully. Because of their location in proximity to other bones, it is often difficult to tell if they have fully healed. You just can't always tell from an X-ray. The player may say they are pain free and the bone looks healed from what can be seen. Then they go out and putting full force on the foot and the partially healed bone breaks again. I have seen this in soccer players on a couple of occasions and the result was that the player missed months instead of weeks. I trust the 49er med staff will err on the side of safety and long term health.

Patton is likely to be out 6 weeks. In the meantime, this gives Baldwin a chance to develop and contribute. He should be able to take the pressure off the decision to hurry Patton back.

Just my thoughts based on personal experience with such injuries.

Are you an orthopedic doctor?

I am a pedorthist (one who makes orthotic devices {insoles} to support the foot). I have worked in a variety of sports (ski, hiking, soccer, baseball) for many years. Much of that time I worked for a podiatric laboratory that makes custom devices to support feet. During that time I have had a good deal of experience working with a wide variety of foot and lower extremity injuries. Through all that, the interaction with other areas of medicine has taught me a great deal beyond just my particular specialty.

Welcome to the Zone, Dr. Scholl

Williams has a place

In the slot, but not on the outside

Originally posted by dj43:
Yep, me too.

Harbaugh's version of the WCO isn't WCO. He has given lip service to Bill Walsh and what a great mentor he was, but he is far closer to Bo Schembechler than Bill Walsh. In fact, his offense would be unrecognizable to Walsh.

In the end, I really don't care which he runs as long as the team wins. To that point, when Harbaugh arrived this roster was largely filled with players in the Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary "impose our will on the ground" mode and pass if we are forced to do so. Nolan came out of the Jamal Lewis/Trent Dilfer Baltimore mold. He wanted a herd of bulldozers in the OL, a RB that could pound along behind them, and a QB that just didn't lose the game. Baltimore won a SB with that with Nolan as DC and he brought that vision here. To match the vision, we drafted a bunch of huge OL who could run block all day but were not particularly adept at pass protection. That is the roster Harbaugh inherited, and for the most part, it matches well with his Bo Schembechler heritage. Consequently, we aren't seeing anything close to a WCO style attack.

In a true WCO, both Williams and Patton could be very effective going in motion or coming out of the slot where opponents could not just put a big body on them and prevent them from getting into the pass route. Walsh would love to compliment those two quick guys with Baldwin and Boldin, both of whom have the strength to battle big DBs in man coverage. Right now, Williams out of the slot, with B & B outside and Vernon Davis at TE would make a pretty darn good receiving corp in a true WCO. The question is: do Harbaugh and Roman even know what that looks like?

Excellent points! But now you're trying to depress me! Bo Schembechler was one of my least favorite coaches...just above Woody!

WE
JUST
CAN'T
GET
A FUKKING
BREAK
AT
THE FUKKING
WR
POSITION

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
WE
JUST
CAN'T
GET
A FUKKING
BREAK
AT
THE FUKKING
WR
POSITION

Just hold your breath, cross your fingers and hope that Boldin doesn't fall victim to the WR curse.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
WE
JUST
CAN'T
GET
A FUKKING
BREAK
AT
THE FUKKING
WR
POSITION

Just hold your breath, cross your fingers and hope that Boldin doesn't fall victim to the WR curse.

I mean really!? Crabs, Manningham, and now Patton!! Man, the football Gods must really hate our WR's

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
WE
JUST
CAN'T
GET
A FUKKING
BREAK
AT
THE FUKKING
WR
POSITION

Just hold your breath, cross your fingers and hope that Boldin doesn't fall victim to the WR curse.

I mean really!? Crabs, Manningham, and now Patton!! Man, the football Gods must really hate our WR's

Beginning to think that Walsh made a pact with the devil when he drafted J Rice..."If you give me the best WR to ever play the game I'll sign off that the team will never have another great WR....unless he's nuts!"

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
...and that is my problem. They have a guy that they could use to make the passing game more effective but their stubbornness prevents them from doing so.

Guess I've resolved to accept the Harbaugh version of the WCO! When he was hired I talked to some Stanford fans and they all talked about the power running game. Not one of them talked about a clever passing attack...or any passing attack. So I decided to love the team with it's new approach and try not to dwell on the past...like I could actually do that!

Yep, me too.

Harbaugh's version of the WCO isn't WCO. He has given lip service to Bill Walsh and what a great mentor he was, but he is far closer to Bo Schembechler than Bill Walsh. In fact, his offense would be unrecognizable to Walsh.

In the end, I really don't care which he runs as long as the team wins. To that point, when Harbaugh arrived this roster was largely filled with players in the Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary "impose our will on the ground" mode and pass if we are forced to do so. Nolan came out of the Jamal Lewis/Trent Dilfer Baltimore mold. He wanted a herd of bulldozers in the OL, a RB that could pound along behind them, and a QB that just didn't lose the game. Baltimore won a SB with that with Nolan as DC and he brought that vision here. To match the vision, we drafted a bunch of huge OL who could run block all day but were not particularly adept at pass protection. That is the roster Harbaugh inherited, and for the most part, it matches well with his Bo Schembechler heritage. Consequently, we aren't seeing anything close to a WCO style attack.

In a true WCO, both Williams and Patton could be very effective going in motion or coming out of the slot where opponents could not just put a big body on them and prevent them from getting into the pass route. Walsh would love to compliment those two quick guys with Baldwin and Boldin, both of whom have the strength to battle big DBs in man coverage. Right now, Williams out of the slot, with B & B outside and Vernon Davis at TE would make a pretty darn good receiving corp in a true WCO. The question is: do Harbaugh and Roman even know what that looks like?

I think we're going to find out this next week, cause Boldin, Baldwin and KW are going to be the ones on the field on 3 WR sets....

Originally posted by dj43:

Yep, me too.

Harbaugh's version of the WCO isn't WCO. He has given lip service to Bill Walsh and what a great mentor he was, but he is far closer to Bo Schembechler than Bill Walsh. In fact, his offense would be unrecognizable to Walsh.

In the end, I really don't care which he runs as long as the team wins. To that point, when Harbaugh arrived this roster was largely filled with players in the Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary "impose our will on the ground" mode and pass if we are forced to do so. Nolan came out of the Jamal Lewis/Trent Dilfer Baltimore mold. He wanted a herd of bulldozers in the OL, a RB that could pound along behind them, and a QB that just didn't lose the game. Baltimore won a SB with that with Nolan as DC and he brought that vision here. To match the vision, we drafted a bunch of huge OL who could run block all day but were not particularly adept at pass protection. That is the roster Harbaugh inherited, and for the most part, it matches well with his Bo Schembechler heritage. Consequently, we aren't seeing anything close to a WCO style attack.

In a true WCO, both Williams and Patton could be very effective going in motion or coming out of the slot where opponents could not just put a big body on them and prevent them from getting into the pass route. Walsh would love to compliment those two quick guys with Baldwin and Boldin, both of whom have the strength to battle big DBs in man coverage. Right now, Williams out of the slot, with B & B outside and Vernon Davis at TE would make a pretty darn good receiving corp in a true WCO. The question is: do Harbaugh and Roman even know what that looks like?

Nolan wasn't the DC of the 2000 Ravens who won the Super Bowl. Marvin Lewis was. Nolan was DC for the Jets in 2000.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few games, I believe Baldwin will be a better #2 and this will create opportunities for Williams in the slot and when Patton comes back it seems he will get a lot of work in the slot as well as some at the #2 position. Its hard to judge these young WR because of the play calling and lack of true identity on offense (play calling). It seems as if Roman draws plays according what he wants to run versus the personnel we have. The way our offense is built we need to obviously run first and set up the play action. We need to motion to find mismatches for our smaller quicker WR's versus the bigger more physical corners. It all goes back to game planning and adjustments, which has been our major issue these past couple of years its not our personnel. I remember when everyone was giving up on Crabs and now it shows how much we need him. Point being we can be successful with out inhouse guys if we plan and adjust properly. Our most glaring weakness is our inability to make in game adjustments, its like Roman and Harbaugh arent watching the game and how the defense's are game planning against us. We tend to have a game plan and stick to it no matter how ineffective it is, we just keep going with what we planned the week ahead.