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The Quinton Patton Tank of Truth

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by ninerfan1984:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
ninerfan1984--Manningham demonstrated an ability to get open off the LOS before being injured last year (rare among SF WRs)...that seems to be an important part of being a receiver. Jenkins showed nothing, though I believe he will this year, and Patton is a rookie and may not be used much in this complicated offense. To assume either would start over Manningham is "crazy" speculation.

Edit: Williams may have a better shot at #2 than Patton or Jenkins due to experience. I do hope Jenkins and Patton become pro bowlers some day but strongly doubt it will be this year.

alright seriously now? do you think they drafted jenkins and now patten with the idea they could be our future 1 and 2 receivers one day? If so you would half to think they would want and expect for them to beat out a reciever who has never been a pure #2 reciever for an entire season in his career. It just makes since. ai am not saying that they both will but that Harbalke would love to see it and it would be the best thing for our team and if neither of them beats out Manningham I am saying they are not living up to expectations.

Precisely. And what I was saying . . . perhaps not as well as you.

Last year was Manningham's 5th in the NFL and he has been a starter

2008 (Rookie Season): Situational player
2009: Became the starter week 3 and had a game of 10 receptions, 150 yards against Dallas that year
2010: Started and had an OK year
2011: Starter and had 5 catches for 73 yards in Super Bowl and caught a pass to set up winning TD

Harbaugh and Baalke drafted Jenkins and Patton to develop into starting WRs...not to give them the job over veterans who are much more savvy and capable at this point. It would please me if they beat out all the vets and led the team to a super bowl victory...but is that likely? No! It is very likely that Jenkins plays a bit more and Patton plays some, but that (if healthy) Manningham and Boldin will be the starters and perhaps James/Hunter will play quite a bit as the third receiver.

As far as not living up to expectation...have you ever heard Harbaugh say he expects a rookie to earn a starting position? And since Jenkins did nothing last year it is unlikely that he will leapfrog over Manningham to start.

Edit: Manningham was constantly pointed out last year as a guy who could get open off the LOS. The young guys struggle with this. They will learn and hopefully excel but Manningham looked very good last year until injured.


So after all that you're agreeing with us, right?

BTW I do believe that Harbaugh "expects" that at least one (or more) of Jenkins, Patton and Lockette to beat out Manningham. Semantics aside, he pretty much said so. Patton is a rookie. I'm hoping that this happens. Let's see.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by ninerfan1984:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
ninerfan1984--Manningham demonstrated an ability to get open off the LOS before being injured last year (rare among SF WRs)...that seems to be an important part of being a receiver. Jenkins showed nothing, though I believe he will this year, and Patton is a rookie and may not be used much in this complicated offense. To assume either would start over Manningham is "crazy" speculation.

Edit: Williams may have a better shot at #2 than Patton or Jenkins due to experience. I do hope Jenkins and Patton become pro bowlers some day but strongly doubt it will be this year.

alright seriously now? do you think they drafted jenkins and now patten with the idea they could be our future 1 and 2 receivers one day? If so you would half to think they would want and expect for them to beat out a reciever who has never been a pure #2 reciever for an entire season in his career. It just makes since. ai am not saying that they both will but that Harbalke would love to see it and it would be the best thing for our team and if neither of them beats out Manningham I am saying they are not living up to expectations.

Precisely. And what I was saying . . . perhaps not as well as you.

Last year was Manningham's 5th in the NFL and he has been a starter

2008 (Rookie Season): Situational player
2009: Became the starter week 3 and had a game of 10 receptions, 150 yards against Dallas that year
2010: Started and had an OK year
2011: Starter and had 5 catches for 73 yards in Super Bowl and caught a pass to set up winning TD

Harbaugh and Baalke drafted Jenkins and Patton to develop into starting WRs...not to give them the job over veterans who are much more savvy and capable at this point. It would please me if they beat out all the vets and led the team to a super bowl victory...but is that likely? No! It is very likely that Jenkins plays a bit more and Patton plays some, but that (if healthy) Manningham and Boldin will be the starters and perhaps James/Hunter will play quite a bit as the third receiver.

As far as not living up to expectation...have you ever heard Harbaugh say he expects a rookie to earn a starting position? And since Jenkins did nothing last year it is unlikely that he will leapfrog over Manningham to start.

Edit: Manningham was constantly pointed out last year as a guy who could get open off the LOS. The young guys struggle with this. They will learn and hopefully excel but Manningham looked very good last year until injured.

I didnt say MM wasnt a starter I said he had never been considered the true #2 receiver for a full season and i stand by that...2010 though might be an exception I would have to look more into that season but in 2011 he lost his 2 spot obviously to Victor cruz. Most of his career he has gone back and forth between being a 2nd and third receiver on a given team which confirms my point he is a fringe 2 or very good 3 receiver. I say nothing about starting in all of that, weather you consider a third receiver a starter is up to you (probably depends on what offense you are talking about) but my point was that he has never consistently been a #2 thats my point. I think everyone here wants both Patton and Jenkins to be more than that and I think the coaches expect more than that as well. so yes if they fail to beat out MM I say they are not meeting expectations.
[ Edited by ninerfan1984 on Jun 1, 2013 at 10:12 AM ]
Originally posted by ninerfan1984:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by ninerfan1984:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
ninerfan1984--Manningham demonstrated an ability to get open off the LOS before being injured last year (rare among SF WRs)...that seems to be an important part of being a receiver. Jenkins showed nothing, though I believe he will this year, and Patton is a rookie and may not be used much in this complicated offense. To assume either would start over Manningham is "crazy" speculation.

Edit: Williams may have a better shot at #2 than Patton or Jenkins due to experience. I do hope Jenkins and Patton become pro bowlers some day but strongly doubt it will be this year.

alright seriously now? do you think they drafted jenkins and now patten with the idea they could be our future 1 and 2 receivers one day? If so you would half to think they would want and expect for them to beat out a reciever who has never been a pure #2 reciever for an entire season in his career. It just makes since. ai am not saying that they both will but that Harbalke would love to see it and it would be the best thing for our team and if neither of them beats out Manningham I am saying they are not living up to expectations.

Precisely. And what I was saying . . . perhaps not as well as you.

Last year was Manningham's 5th in the NFL and he has been a starter

2008 (Rookie Season): Situational player
2009: Became the starter week 3 and had a game of 10 receptions, 150 yards against Dallas that year
2010: Started and had an OK year
2011: Starter and had 5 catches for 73 yards in Super Bowl and caught a pass to set up winning TD

Harbaugh and Baalke drafted Jenkins and Patton to develop into starting WRs...not to give them the job over veterans who are much more savvy and capable at this point. It would please me if they beat out all the vets and led the team to a super bowl victory...but is that likely? No! It is very likely that Jenkins plays a bit more and Patton plays some, but that (if healthy) Manningham and Boldin will be the starters and perhaps James/Hunter will play quite a bit as the third receiver.

As far as not living up to expectation...have you ever heard Harbaugh say he expects a rookie to earn a starting position? And since Jenkins did nothing last year it is unlikely that he will leapfrog over Manningham to start.

Edit: Manningham was constantly pointed out last year as a guy who could get open off the LOS. The young guys struggle with this. They will learn and hopefully excel but Manningham looked very good last year until injured.

I didnt say MM wasnt a starter I said he had never been considered the true #2 receiver for a full season and i stand by that...2010 though might be an exception I would have to look more into that season but in 2011 he lost his 2 spot obviously to Victor cruz. Most of his career he has gone back and forth between being a 2nd and third receiver on a given team which confirms my point he is a fringe 2 or very good 3 receiver. I say nothing about starting in all of that, weather you consider a third receiver a starter is up to you (probably depends on what offense you are talking about) but my point was that he has never consistently been a #2 thats my point. I think everyone here wants both Patton and Jenkins to be more than that and I think the coaches expect more than that as well. so yes if they fail to beat out MM I say they are not meeting expectations.

You have to keep in mind he played for the New York Giants who don't have any slouches at starting receiver. Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks can match up with almost any pair of starting receivers in the league. Most teams in the league aren't so fortunate and on most of those teams, Mario Manningham would probably be number 2. With that said, I would love if Jenkins and Patton could ultimately beat out Manningham. If we do lose Michael Crabtree, we would have 3 very capable receivers with ample experience ready to go.
If we had Boldin and Crabtree healthy and starting I would think Manningham would not be able to bump those guys, but I need to see something from Patton, Jenkins and Lockette before rating them ahead of Manningham. Just doesn't seem reasonable to project the unknown rookie over the sixth year vet who has started or played third receiver on very good teams. I just want a great competition in TC this year and not the limping into the season the niners have had the past dozen years at this position. It would be great to know that the fourth or fifth receiver could start for most teams.
Boldin and Hams are in my opinion #1 and #2 if both are heaalthy without Crabs. The rest of the guys with will batttle for #3 and it's a toss up. Not too bad but my guess is we will see a lot of guys swapped out over the season.
Originally posted by BayArea:
Boldin and Hams are in my opinion #1 and #2 if both are heaalthy without Crabs. The rest of the guys with will batttle for #3 and it's a toss up. Not too bad but my guess is we will see a lot of guys swapped out over the season.

I think Manningham gets strangely overrated the same way Josh Morgan was overrated when he was here. He's a quality NFL #3 WR, nothing more, nothing less. If it gets to a point in the season where the 49ers are looking at him as a #2 WR, then that means Jenkins is officially a bust and Patton is f**king up.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jun 1, 2013 at 7:13 PM ]
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
You have to keep in mind he played for the New York Giants who don't have any slouches at starting receiver. Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks can match up with almost any pair of starting receivers in the league. Most teams in the league aren't so fortunate and on most of those teams, Mario Manningham would probably be number 2. With that said, I would love if Jenkins and Patton could ultimately beat out Manningham. If we do lose Michael Crabtree, we would have 3 very capable receivers with ample experience ready to go.

It could also be said that Eli can make his WR's look considerably better than they actually are. I doubt strongly that Nicks or Cruz are #1 WR's on most other NFL teams. Remember non-Carolina Steve Smith? He had 1200 yards receiving with Eli throwing the ball to him. Ever since then he's been showing up on milk cartons.

Hopefully that's the kind of QB that Kaepernick becomes, where you can have a team filled with #2 and #3 WR's who look lights-out because the QB is money.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jun 1, 2013 at 7:19 PM ]
There are a lot of different variables involved in why one rookie is more contribution ready than another. It depends on what keeps them form doing so and how long it will take them to correct the problem. Sometimes the question is if the problem is even correctable. They may have experienced success at a lesser level but not be able to translate that on the next.

Most rookies have to deal with learning the new playbook. Usually in the NFL they are much more numerous and complex. Some individuals are fast studies. Others it takes more time. And then there are some who just don't have the ability to do so at all. So they are either cut or if their talent warrents they have their playbooks cut down. Both Lockette and Jenkins seemed to have difficulties memorizing the playbooks. How much of a problem it is for them remains to be seen. Lockette and I assume Jenkins have worked hard in the off season on the plays. As to Patton he may in fact be a quick study and be ready to play early if their are not other variables that hold him back.

Another problem that Lockette needed to work on was his route running. He has done a lot of work on that also this last off season. Jenkins has also worked on his routes.

To me the most important unknown and short coming that Jenkins has in need of correction is his strength. He worked hard this off season but in his case is it even correctable? Some of you might wonder why I am making so much of this particular point? Well there are certain minimum requirements of skills and qualities that dictate if players will succeed at specific positions. One requirement, as mentioned before, for the offense is being able to memorizing a playbook. You cant do that and you cant play. For Jenkins I see his core strength as a deal breaker also.

It seems that except for learning the playbook ( which he might do very quickly ) it seems that Patton has of yet shown no shortcomings that might label him as noncontributory. Except he is more suited to the slot and not as an edge receiver which the #2 in relation to Boltin should be.

It seems to me that in Harbaugh throwing all three, Lockette, Jenkins and Patton into the mix to compete for the #2 he is revealing his plans. I think I see what he is doing. As I stated Lockette and Jenkins are more suited for the position opposite Boldin. The best case scenario would be to have an edge receiver who would stretch the defense. Ergo either Lockette or Jenkins. Both still carry question marks in relation to route running, knowing the plays and one specifically his core strength. Then we have Patton who (other than you general rookie issues) has less issues but is not as ideally suited for the spot. This is one smart coach. He is just not throwing three guys at the position rather there is multifaceted rhyme to his reasons. Believe me he has all his bases covered. Back up plans for his back up plans. See if you can figure out what he meant when he said someone will emerge.
Originally posted by willtalk:
There are a lot of different variables involved in why one rookie is more contribution ready than another. It depends on what keeps them form doing so and how long it will take them to correct the problem. Sometimes the question is if the problem is even correctable. They may have experienced success at a lesser level but not be able to translate that on the next.

Most rookies have to deal with learning the new playbook. Usually in the NFL they are much more numerous and complex. Some individuals are fast studies. Others it takes more time. And then there are some who just don't have the ability to do so at all. So they are either cut or if their talent warrents they have their playbooks cut down. Both Lockette and Jenkins seemed to have difficulties memorizing the playbooks. How much of a problem it is for them remains to be seen. Lockette and I assume Jenkins have worked hard in the off season on the plays. As to Patton he may in fact be a quick study and be ready to play early if their are not other variables that hold him back.

Another problem that Lockette needed to work on was his route running. He has done a lot of work on that also this last off season. Jenkins has also worked on his routes.

To me the most important unknown and short coming that Jenkins has in need of correction is his strength. He worked hard this off season but in his case is it even correctable? Some of you might wonder why I am making so much of this particular point? Well there are certain minimum requirements of skills and qualities that dictate if players will succeed at specific positions. One requirement, as mentioned before, for the offense is being able to memorizing a playbook. You cant do that and you cant play. For Jenkins I see his core strength as a deal breaker also.

It seems that except for learning the playbook ( which he might do very quickly ) it seems that Patton has of yet shown no shortcomings that might label him as noncontributory. Except he is more suited to the slot and not as an edge receiver which the #2 in relation to Boltin should be.

It seems to me that in Harbaugh throwing all three, Lockette, Jenkins and Patton into the mix to compete for the #2 he is revealing his plans. I think I see what he is doing. As I stated Lockette and Jenkins are more suited for the position opposite Boldin. The best case scenario would be to have an edge receiver who would stretch the defense. Ergo either Lockette or Jenkins. Both still carry question marks in relation to route running, knowing the plays and one specifically his core strength. Then we have Patton who (other than you general rookie issues) has less issues but is not as ideally suited for the spot. This is one smart coach. He is just not throwing three guys at the position rather there is multifaceted rhyme to his reasons. Believe me he has all his bases covered. Back up plans for his back up plans. See if you can figure out what he meant when he said someone will emerge.

I don't think the strength is as much of an issue as some are making it out to be. Plenty of other receivers out there who struggle to beat press coverage, but when they do and get vertical, watch out. I think AJ's problem was that they really were trying to redshirt him, and during the week, instead of learning the 49ers playbook, he was running scout team plays. I'm by no means excusing him for farking around, not showing up in proper shape last offseason, not putting more time and effort into learning the playbook, but the situation is certainly understandable. As far as his route running, he was a very good route runner in college, I don't see why that should be a limitation as compared to a guy like Lockette. Jenkins carried his team's offense in college, Lockette was a project in college and has been a project in the pro's thus far, I'd like to be optimistic, I just don't see him doing much one way or the other but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think Manningham gets strangely overrated the same way Josh Morgan was overrated when he was here. He's a quality NFL #3 WR, nothing more, nothing less. If it gets to a point in the season where the 49ers are looking at him as a #2 WR, then that means Jenkins is officially a bust and Patton is f**king up.

It really doesn't matter whether folks over rate Manningham if their point (my point) is that he was doing well last year and is a vet, and the young guys need to compete and win a position over him. Will Jenkins be a bust if he can't bump Crabtree when he comes back?

I really don't understand why you give Jenkins one year to become a starter...or he's a bust. It takes every player a different rate to actualize talent. He did almost nothing last year so if he becomes a third option this year, bumping Williams, that will show progress.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jun 2, 2013 at 6:13 AM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
It could also be said that Eli can make his WR's look considerably better than they actually are. I doubt strongly that Nicks or Cruz are #1 WR's on most other NFL teams. Remember non-Carolina Steve Smith? He had 1200 yards receiving with Eli throwing the ball to him. Ever since then he's been showing up on milk cartons.

Hopefully that's the kind of QB that Kaepernick becomes, where you can have a team filled with #2 and #3 WR's who look lights-out because the QB is money.

Steve Smith had microfracture knee surgery when he left NY, which is often a career-ender. There is more in play here than the transendence of Gomer Manning
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
So after all that you're agreeing with us, right?

BTW I do believe that Harbaugh "expects" that at least one (or more) of Jenkins, Patton and Lockette to beat out Manningham. Semantics aside, he pretty much said so. Patton is a rookie. I'm hoping that this happens. Let's see.

Sorry, missed this! In my expectations for the year I generally go with vets over young players until they take the job away. There are so many nuances to playing WR that it may take awhile for a young guy to fully understand the speed and intensity of the game. Manningham has been through that and has shown an ability to get open off the line of scrimmage. Boldin is...Boldin...so those would be my guesses at starting WR for this year--IF Manningham comes back healthy. The issue I am most concerned with regarding Manningham is injury...is he injury prone? He's played in 16 game once in five years.

Jerry Rice was not a great player right away and no one outworked him. Hope these young guys understand how important those extra hours are!
All indications are that Williams will probably be available from Day 1 in TC.

Manningham won't play until maybe midseason. Crabs probably not until December.

I see this as a blessing in disguise.

We will of course run a ton (3 headed monster -- I don't think Latt sees the field this year). I think McDonald will be a pleasant surprise. Kaep will develop better chemistry with VD and one of the young guys (AJ or Patton) will emerge. I think AJ starts the year opposite Boldin. Might be Patton. I think Lockette will get a chance too and Kyle will slowly work his way back into the rotation.

We should be humming by November and then Mario and Crabs come back before the end of the season / playoffs. The one thing that plagued us the past two years (no WR depth) will now be a strength.

Gonna send out Candlestick with a bang by winning the NFC Championship right where it all started. A fitting end to the old girl before she is blown up like an old Vegas casino.
Bump. So it looks like Patton is catching passes again per twitter reports, albeit still in a blue jersey, and is having his way with DBs in 1-on-1 drills. I'm praying to the almighty pie in the sky that he can be this year's TY Hilton. Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
Bump. So it looks like Patton is catching passes again per twitter reports, albeit still in a blue jersey, and is having his way with DBs in 1-on-1 drills. I'm praying to the almighty pie in the sky that he can be this year's TY Hilton. Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

I'm hoping he gets on the field soon and get playing time the kid is the king of the screen passing game im excited to watch him
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