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The Quinton Patton Tank of Truth

Too many of you are looking for reasons to write people off.

That's a personality defect on your part you really need to correct.

Any one of these guys could suddenly light it up.

Brent Jones for example in prior years.
Originally posted by WeAreLegend:
Too many of you are looking for reasons to write people off.

That's a personality defect on your part you really need to correct.

Any one of these guys could suddenly light it up.

Brent Jones for example in prior years.

I think some people just don't wanna get their hopes up and get disappointed. But like they say, it's better to have hoped and lost than to never have hope at all.
Originally posted by calinig4life:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/43315/321/third-day-gems-wr-patton

"Like other third day gems, I was and continue to be a huge fan of Patton's, listing him at No. 30 in my top 151 pre-draft rankings. After one day of rookie camp, 49ers beat writer Matt Maiocco wrote "I can tell you that Quinton Patton is nowhere close to being ready. (But that can be said for all of the rookies.)" I did not attend this practice, but based on Patton's collegiate tape I disagree."

I trust Maiocco.

Adjusting to the pro game can take time, though I know the Zone really wants to crown Patton & Lockette ASAP.

Maiocco was wrong about Kap, he's been wrong about plenty. I'll take his analysis noting that Patton has much to work on.


This^^

Maiocco is worse than vanilla, when it comes to player evaluation. One pretty much has to scrap anything he says. That fans will "attend" his chats an ask questions as if he's some kind of authority on players is amusing.

I do agree with Pheonix on Lockette. He is fast approaching his "use by" date. It's difficult to imagine that he'll break out as a #1 or #2 given his history and especially his age. Can anyone recall a player who has been a revelation under similar circumstances? Best one can expect is that he'll be a servicable #4.

Patton's book, on the other hand,has yet to be written. He seems to have it all, minus elite speed.

I rate Jenkins and Patton as front runners to take over as starter. Jenkins slightly ahead. Both ahead of Manningham. That's what I hope plays out.

Because Manningham's is coming back from an injury or base on skills alone?


I have factored in the injury, of course.

But from the skills angle, I hope that Jenkins proves to have skills superior to Manninghams before his injury. I never thought of Manningham as a bone fide #2 and I don't think that the Niners necessarily viewed him as such. You don't force a prospective #2 to take a pay cut, unless you have concluded that he wasn't the solution.

Besides he's really fragile. He had been missing time with the Niners . . . twice inactive, covering several games, before his injury. People are all over Jenkins case because he is ONLY 196 lbs. Well, Manningham is the same height but 10 lbs lighter. Why is that not an issue? I'm extrapolating that the team is more demanding of Jenkins (get stronger, gain weight, etc.) because they are projecting much greater things from him.

Same with Patton. He's bigger, stronger, less fragile. Hopefully smarter. Manningham's route running has been criticized in the past. Although obviously that can be improved.

I want Manningham to recover strongly and to do well. I just don't want to see him as the Niners #2. For the reasons stated, to me that would indicate that the team's receiving corp is weak. Noone has "stepped up".
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
I think some people just don't wanna get their hopes up and get disappointed. But like they say, it's better to have hoped and lost than to never have hope at all.

Yes, there are many jaded fans who want to play it safe with their emotions. As a fan, I see it as my job to be eternally hopeful, but with an honest degree of skepticism.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by calinig4life:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/43315/321/third-day-gems-wr-patton

"Like other third day gems, I was and continue to be a huge fan of Patton's, listing him at No. 30 in my top 151 pre-draft rankings. After one day of rookie camp, 49ers beat writer Matt Maiocco wrote "I can tell you that Quinton Patton is nowhere close to being ready. (But that can be said for all of the rookies.)" I did not attend this practice, but based on Patton's collegiate tape I disagree."

I trust Maiocco.

Adjusting to the pro game can take time, though I know the Zone really wants to crown Patton & Lockette ASAP.

Maiocco was wrong about Kap, he's been wrong about plenty. I'll take his analysis noting that Patton has much to work on.


This^^

Maiocco is worse than vanilla, when it comes to player evaluation. One pretty much has to scrap anything he says. That fans will "attend" his chats an ask questions as if he's some kind of authority on players is amusing.

I do agree with Pheonix on Lockette. He is fast approaching his "use by" date. It's difficult to imagine that he'll break out as a #1 or #2 given his history and especially his age. Can anyone recall a player who has been a revelation under similar circumstances? Best one can expect is that he'll be a servicable #4.

Patton's book, on the other hand,has yet to be written. He seems to have it all, minus elite speed.

I rate Jenkins and Patton as front runners to take over as starter. Jenkins slightly ahead. Both ahead of Manningham. That's what I hope plays out.

Because Manningham's is coming back from an injury or base on skills alone?


I have factored in the injury, of course.

But from the skills angle, I hope that Jenkins proves to have skills superior to Manninghams before his injury. I never thought of Manningham as a bone fide #2 and I don't think that the Niners necessarily viewed him as such. You don't force a prospective #2 to take a pay cut, unless you have concluded that he wasn't the solution.

Besides he's really fragile. He had been missing time with the Niners . . . twice inactive, covering several games, before his injury. People are all over Jenkins case because he is ONLY 196 lbs. Well, Manningham is the same height but 10 lbs lighter. Why is that not an issue? I'm extrapolating that the team is more demanding of Jenkins (get stronger, gain weight, etc.) because they are projecting much greater things from him.

Same with Patton. He's bigger, stronger, less fragile. Hopefully smarter. Manningham's route running has been criticized in the past. Although obviously that can be improved.

I want Manningham to recover strongly and to do well. I just don't want to see him as the Niners #2. For the reasons stated, to me that would indicate that the team's receiving corp is weak. Noone has "stepped up".

if manningham is worthy of the #2 spot i have nothing against it. as long as someone capable steps up, its all good. id like it to be jenkins since they drafted him high and he is hella fast but we'll see soon enough. my moneys on jenkins to step into the two spot
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
if manningham is worthy of the #2 spot i have nothing against it. as long as someone capable steps up, its all good. id like it to be jenkins since they drafted him high and he is hella fast but we'll see soon enough. my moneys on jenkins to step into the two spot

I would like to see Manningham at #2 and Jenkins/Patton back up and learn this year. That would give the niners a very strong unit when Crabtree comes back: Crabtree, Boldin, Manningham, Jenkins, Patton and Williams as well. Three strong vets and three young guys to back up and learn.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
if manningham is worthy of the #2 spot i have nothing against it. as long as someone capable steps up, its all good. id like it to be jenkins since they drafted him high and he is hella fast but we'll see soon enough. my moneys on jenkins to step into the two spot

I would like to see Manningham at #2 and Jenkins/Patton back up and learn this year. That would give the niners a very strong unit when Crabtree comes back: Crabtree, Boldin, Manningham, Jenkins, Patton and Williams as well. Three strong vets and three young guys to back up and learn.

you guys are crazy manningham has never in his career been considered a strong and consistant #2 and now you want him to be that this year after having major surgery? thats crazy talk the hope should be that both Jenkins and Patton show them selves to be at the very least worthy of being a #2 and move ahead of Manning ham on the depth chart. making Manningham the #4...this would show that our 2 most recent draft picks at the position of wr are panning out to the point where they could be our future 1 and 2 wr if need be... we know what manningham is when healthy and that is a fringe #2 or a great #3 wr but we dont know what jenkins and patton are. If either or both are able to beat manningham that shows incredible depth and bright things to come when Crabs does come back. The young guys become the 2 and 3 is obviously the best scenario.
ninerfan1984--Manningham demonstrated an ability to get open off the LOS before being injured last year (rare among SF WRs)...that seems to be an important part of being a receiver. Jenkins showed nothing, though I believe he will this year, and Patton is a rookie and may not be used much in this complicated offense. To assume either would start over Manningham is "crazy" speculation.

Edit: Williams may have a better shot at #2 than Patton or Jenkins due to experience. I do hope Jenkins and Patton become pro bowlers some day but strongly doubt it will be this year.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on May 31, 2013 at 6:21 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
ninerfan1984--Manningham demonstrated an ability to get open off the LOS before being injured last year (rare among SF WRs)...that seems to be an important part of being a receiver. Jenkins showed nothing, though I believe he will this year, and Patton is a rookie and may not be used much in this complicated offense. To assume either would start over Manningham is "crazy" speculation.

Edit: Williams may have a better shot at #2 than Patton or Jenkins due to experience. I do hope Jenkins and Patton become pro bowlers some day but strongly doubt it will be this year.

alright seriously now? do you think they drafted jenkins and now patten with the idea they could be our future 1 and 2 receivers one day? If so you would half to think they would want and expect for them to beat out a reciever who has never been a pure #2 reciever for an entire season in his career. It just makes since. ai am not saying that they both will but that Harbalke would love to see it and it would be the best thing for our team and if neither of them beats out Manningham I am saying they are not living up to expectations.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
I have factored in the injury, of course.

But from the skills angle, I hope that Jenkins proves to have skills superior to Manninghams before his injury. I never thought of Manningham as a bone fide #2 and I don't think that the Niners necessarily viewed him as such. You don't force a prospective #2 to take a pay cut, unless you have concluded that he wasn't the solution.

Besides he's really fragile. He had been missing time with the Niners . . . twice inactive, covering several games, before his injury. People are all over Jenkins case because he is ONLY 196 lbs. Well, Manningham is the same height but 10 lbs lighter. Why is that not an issue? I'm extrapolating that the team is more demanding of Jenkins (get stronger, gain weight, etc.) because they are projecting much greater things from him.

Same with Patton. He's bigger, stronger, less fragile. Hopefully smarter. Manningham's route running has been criticized in the past. Although obviously that can be improved.

I want Manningham to recover strongly and to do well. I just don't want to see him as the Niners #2. For the reasons stated, to me that would indicate that the team's receiving corp is weak. Noone has "stepped up".

The reason Manningham took a pay cut was his injury along with the Boldins trade which made him more expendable. It had little to do with his actual skill set. I mean the Ravens let Boldin go. It's mostly about prioritizing where the money will be spent. #2 receivers are not that high a priority for this team. The days of all the free agents cashing in are over. What most teams and the this team has to do is to create a proper balance between developing rookies, high production players still on their first contracts and a few essential high end vets. It is an advantage to have as many players as possible who are productive but still on their first contract like Kaep, A Smith etc. If you are not an essential high production vet you are expendable and will eventually be pushed out unless you reduce you salary.

The reason that the Niner's drafted Jenkins at #30 was because they projected him as an edge receiver who would take the top off the defense. Unlike a slot receiver, the edge receiver faces and needs to fight his way though jams at the line of scrimmage. In college he ran mostly out of the slot and faced few jams until he got to the Niner training camp. Yes they want him to get bigger and stronger because the greater things they project for him ( edge receiver) require it. It is, however, not really about his weight but rather his core strength. It's just often assumed that the bigger you are the stronger you are. Size does not always translate to strength. There are many top receivers who are a lot lighter than AJ. who are still plenty strong enough to fight through the jams. His size last year should have ordinarily been enough.

I think a factor that TB might have not considered is that some people just have genetic strength limitations with a significant lower top end strength. Considering his body type and history it's a possiblity that AJ might never become strong enough to be an edge receiver. That is still an unknown that won't become clear until training camp when he will again have to fight the press on the line. There were a lot of things in his scouting reports and together with what transpired since that lead me to question his core strength potential. He worked hard this of season to add muscle, but the question still is if that will be enough? If it isn't then none of his other skills will matter much unless they just run him out of the slot. I think in projecting success for players one must consider what it is that keeps them off the field along with a realistic assessment of what it would take for them to over come it.
Originally posted by ninerfan1984:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
ninerfan1984--Manningham demonstrated an ability to get open off the LOS before being injured last year (rare among SF WRs)...that seems to be an important part of being a receiver. Jenkins showed nothing, though I believe he will this year, and Patton is a rookie and may not be used much in this complicated offense. To assume either would start over Manningham is "crazy" speculation.

Edit: Williams may have a better shot at #2 than Patton or Jenkins due to experience. I do hope Jenkins and Patton become pro bowlers some day but strongly doubt it will be this year.

alright seriously now? do you think they drafted jenkins and now patten with the idea they could be our future 1 and 2 receivers one day? If so you would half to think they would want and expect for them to beat out a reciever who has never been a pure #2 reciever for an entire season in his career. It just makes since. ai am not saying that they both will but that Harbalke would love to see it and it would be the best thing for our team and if neither of them beats out Manningham I am saying they are not living up to expectations.

Precisely. And what I was saying . . . perhaps not as well as you.
[ Edited by Rsrkshn on May 31, 2013 at 11:15 AM ]
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by ninerfan1984:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
ninerfan1984--Manningham demonstrated an ability to get open off the LOS before being injured last year (rare among SF WRs)...that seems to be an important part of being a receiver. Jenkins showed nothing, though I believe he will this year, and Patton is a rookie and may not be used much in this complicated offense. To assume either would start over Manningham is "crazy" speculation.

Edit: Williams may have a better shot at #2 than Patton or Jenkins due to experience. I do hope Jenkins and Patton become pro bowlers some day but strongly doubt it will be this year.

alright seriously now? do you think they drafted jenkins and now patten with the idea they could be our future 1 and 2 receivers one day? If so you would half to think they would want and expect for them to beat out a reciever who has never been a pure #2 reciever for an entire season in his career. It just makes since. ai am not saying that they both will but that Harbalke would love to see it and it would be the best thing for our team and if neither of them beats out Manningham I am saying they are not living up to expectations.

Precisely. And what I was saying . . . perhaps not as well as you.

Last year was Manningham's 5th in the NFL and he has been a starter

2008 (Rookie Season): Situational player
2009: Became the starter week 3 and had a game of 10 receptions, 150 yards against Dallas that year
2010: Started and had an OK year
2011: Starter and had 5 catches for 73 yards in Super Bowl and caught a pass to set up winning TD

Harbaugh and Baalke drafted Jenkins and Patton to develop into starting WRs...not to give them the job over veterans who are much more savvy and capable at this point. It would please me if they beat out all the vets and led the team to a super bowl victory...but is that likely? No! It is very likely that Jenkins plays a bit more and Patton plays some, but that (if healthy) Manningham and Boldin will be the starters and perhaps James/Hunter will play quite a bit as the third receiver.

As far as not living up to expectation...have you ever heard Harbaugh say he expects a rookie to earn a starting position? And since Jenkins did nothing last year it is unlikely that he will leapfrog over Manningham to start.

Edit: Manningham was constantly pointed out last year as a guy who could get open off the LOS. The young guys struggle with this. They will learn and hopefully excel but Manningham looked very good last year until injured.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on May 31, 2013 at 4:43 PM ]
Its fun to watch guys like this develop. We've have unexpected starters here like RayMac, Brooks and Boone for example, who people dismissed as fodder but now are high caliber players.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on May 31, 2013 at 9:15 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
I think some people just don't wanna get their hopes up and get disappointed. But like they say, it's better to have hoped and lost than to never have hope at all.

Yes, there are many jaded fans who want to play it safe with their emotions. As a fan, I see it as my job to be eternally hopeful, but with an honest degree of skepticism.

Right on.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Its fun to watch guys like this develop. We've have unexpected starters here like RayMac, Brooks and Boone for example, who people dismissed as fodder but now are high caliber players.


As well as Bowman, Kaepernick, T Brown, Miller and even Dashon Goldson took a few years to start.
T Brown and Miller were given almost no chance at all.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Jun 1, 2013 at 1:00 AM ]