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New 49er Corey Lemonier

Originally posted by 5280High:
Lemonier and Patton are going to make the most impact in their rookie year. I still wanna see Carradine all suited up wonder if he is getting a redshirt year too.

Vance McDonald is going to get a lot of playing time this year, gotta disagree with you

and eric reid of course
[ Edited by DonnieDarko on Aug 10, 2013 at 2:12 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
You mean when he didn't contain the edge (inside move) and the RB ran outside for the big gain?

As to your point, I've wanted to sprinkle in some Caper-like formations for a while now. The thing is with Brooks, you can rush him from a MIKE or TED position or line him up on the DL (drop back: like when he got his big pick-6 against Brees). Aldon can play both WILL/SAM and up on the DL. Haralson can as well and I "think" he has some experience at the MIKE/TED. So to me, Fangio needs to do a better job of utilizing all 4 LBers in blitz packages (like the cross-dog blitzes we saw against Denver). They have the experience in our system and at various positions. There is no reason you can't move Willis/Bowman out wide as well from time to time (esp. Bowman b/c he has good pass rush skills). All these "looks" can help to force the QB to hesitate and keep an OL off balance. No excuses this year for Fangio..."Scheme is the Theme in 2013!"

Yes. Right. That play.

Why were we so boring last year? I think PFF did a study and determined SF was the least blitzing team in the league, or second least.

Plus we never change our look, except when we put in the suicidal dime and nickel packages. The worst invention ever for modern day defenses.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Aug 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM ]
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by NCommand:
You mean when he didn't contain the edge (inside move) and the RB ran outside for the big gain?

As to your point, I've wanted to sprinkle in some Caper-like formations for a while now. The thing is with Brooks, you can rush him from a MIKE or TED position or line him up on the DL (drop back: like when he got his big pick-6 against Brees). Aldon can play both WILL/SAM and up on the DL. Haralson can as well and I "think" he has some experience at the MIKE/TED. So to me, Fangio needs to do a better job of utilizing all 4 LBers in blitz packages (like the cross-dog blitzes we saw against Denver). They have the experience in our system and at various positions. There is no reason you can't move Willis/Bowman out wide as well from time to time (esp. Bowman b/c he has good pass rush skills). All these "looks" can help to force the QB to hesitate and keep an OL off balance. No excuses this year for Fangio..."Scheme is the Theme in 2013!"

Yes. Right. That play.

Why were we so boring last year? I think PFF did a study and determined SF was the least blitzing team in the league, or second least.

Plus we never change our look, except when we put in the suicidal dime and nickel packages. The worst invention ever for modern day defenses.

Well to the defenses credit, they didn't need to blitz at times. The front 3 or 4 with Aldon was enough to get pressure or sack the QB.

I don't get when you say the defense never changes their look, they have what they call the magic formation where all D-lineman are standing. Also seen the D-line at one or two on the LOS. In the playoffs excluding the GB game, they played conservative with a 3 or 4 man rush against Ryan and Flacco most of the time.
  • buck
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

See, here is where I think we need to really think outside the bun. Stop thinking WILL and SAM and all these old seifert-isms that are like heirlooms passed down from a golden age.

I had no idea that the terms Will and Sam were seifer-isms, i.e. created by Seifert.

When exactly did our ex-defensive coordinator and our ex-head coach come up with this terminology?
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Why were we so boring last year? I think PFF did a study and determined SF was the least blitzing team in the league, or second least.

If I remember correctly, we have had a top five defense in the last two years--since Fangio became the defensive coordinator.

Were all the teams that have blitzed more than us in the last two years better defensive teams than we were?
[ Edited by buck on Aug 10, 2013 at 6:34 PM ]
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
See, here is where I think we need to really think outside the bun. Stop thinking WILL and SAM and all these old seifert-isms that are like heirlooms passed down from a golden age.

I had no idea that the terms Will and Sam were seifer-isms, i.e. created by Seifert.

When exactly did our ex-defensive coordinator and our ex-head coach come up with this terminology?
LOL
Originally posted by buck:
I had no idea that the terms Will and Sam were seifer-isms, i.e. created by Seifert.

When exactly did our ex-defensive coordinator and our ex-head coach come up with this terminology?


You're right it was Tom Landry back in the 50's. I took liberties.

My point is we have always played a bend don't break style defense from George Seifert days that was conservative and unaggressive because all the money was invested on the other side of the ball and he had to make due with a lot of bread and butter players with a stud passrusher thrown in.

I still get that feeling when I watched our defense last year. The same stunts, the same looks, the same conservative linebacker play over and over again.

Our stud passrusher -- did the same thing over and over again. And it got him beat up. And we wound up losing the superbowl because our D faded.

Personally I think its a problem that we have one sack artist with 19.5 sacks and the rest of the team scrambling to equal that number.

It was a problem to me on a defense with Willis, Bowman, JSmith, Brooks, Whitner, Goldson, Brown. Those guys could all be involved in quarterback terrorism.

It makes us stronger to have more than one threat. Why not scheme for it?

You can talk statistics all you want. But our d was a bringdown from 2011. We hurt people in 2011. Not so last year. We got hurt.

So now if we have some studs, let's get out of the conservative mindset. Let's attack. Let's aggress. Figure out how to do it and maintain assignments. Lets scheme to our strengths, not the other teams weaknesses. Godwilling, we have the players to do it this year.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Aug 10, 2013 at 8:04 PM ]
Originally posted by buck:
If I remember correctly, we have had a top five defense in the last two years--since Fangio became the defensive coordinator.

Were all the teams that have blitzed more than us in the last two years better defensive teams than we were?


The point is be aggressive, change looks, define the roles and adjust formations according to the players strengths and capabilities creatively.

Don't necessarily think how players can fit into the roles of the "scheme." Blow up the other guys schemes by attacking, aggressing on D. We have the studs
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
You're right it was Tom Landry back in the 50's. I took liberties.

My point is we have always played a bend don't break style defense from George Seifert days that was conservative and unaggressive because all the money was invested on the other side of the ball and he had to make due with a lot of bread and butter players with a stud passrusher thrown in.

I still get that feeling when I watched our defense last year. The same stunts, the same looks, the same conservative linebacker play over and over again.

Our stud passrusher -- did the same thing over and over again. And it got him beat up. And we wound up losing the superbowl because our D faded.

Personally I think its a problem that we have one sack artist with 19.5 sacks and the rest of the team scrambling to equal that number.

It was a problem to me on a defense with Willis, Bowman, JSmith, Brooks, Whitner, Goldson, Brown. Those guys could all be involved in quarterback terrorism.

It makes us stronger to have more than one threat. Why not scheme for it?

You can talk statistics all you want. But our d was a bringdown from 2011. We hurt people in 2011. Not so last year. We got hurt.

So now if we have some studs, let's get out of the conservative mindset. Let's attack. Let's aggress. Figure out how to do it and maintain assignments. Lets scheme to our strengths, not the other teams weaknesses. Godwilling, we have the players to do it this year.

About Aldon having most of the sack numbers, I see Vic moving Aldon to both sides of the line. He's gone against the RT a few times, stunts. I think the scheme of the Dline on passing plays is to engage the Oline in a way that Aldon is single teamed. My point is, he gets most of the sacks numbers by design. Because he is so good, you scheme to get him the best odds at getting to the QB. Just my observation, though.

I agree with what you said about trying to be a bit more aggressive. I'd like to see Willis and/or Bow on more blitzes up the gut. They can track down any QB. Zone blitzes, overloaded blitzes can all give the offense more to think about.
[ Edited by thl408 on Aug 10, 2013 at 10:41 PM ]
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The defense scheme has to match the talents and weaknesses of the players.

If I remember correctly Willis and Bowman spent most of last year dropping into coverage last year. In 2012, Willis was rated the top coverage inside linebacker, among either 3-4 or 4-3 linebackers, by PFF, and Bowman was rated as the eight best.

Isaac Sopoaga was eight worst pass rushing interior linemen in the NFL last year. If we had sent Bowman or Willis on interior blitzes they would have been playing off the play of Sopoaga. Given the lack of push gotten by Sopoaga, it may have been difficult to for the interior blitzes to have been successful, and as we know blitzing unsuccessfully creates its own set of problems.

Ian Williams, it appears, will be replacing Sopoaga in 2013. Williams should be much more effective in creating havoc on the inside on passing plays. Sending Willis and Bowman on blitzes into the havoc created by Ian Williams should be productive.

I do anticipate more inside blitzes in the coming year. But, there is another element to consider.

Fangio might have been dropping Willis and Bowman into coverage in a effort to mask debilities in pass coverage on the back end of the defense. If that is the case, and I am not absolutely positive that it is, we have to hope that somehow, someway, the team can improve the play of the defensive backfield.

If we send Willis or Bowman on blitzes who is going to pick up the cover assignments, particularly on the tight ends that will be the hot read against the inside blitz. I do not have an immediate answer for this question, but I think some creative use of our corner backs might be the answer.
[ Edited by buck on Aug 11, 2013 at 5:41 AM ]
For the topic of the thread: Corey Lemonier looks like Aldon Smith Light. Great burst off the line. Good closing speed, bordering on elite. Could use some more strength and technique, but that can be coached. This guy was a great pick.

brodiebluebanaszak:
I can see what you are saying. The think Fangio put the system in place, and then gives his players some latitude in running it. The system works, or else he wouldn't have coached a top D in the NFL for two years in a row. Remember Billy Davis? Remember Greg Manusky? His system seems predicated on "Bend-But-Dont-Break." This type of system requires the opposing offense to beat us repeatedly, all the way down the field, which is a tall order. It's good MACRO-Management. Make THEM beat us, and sometimes they did, but more often then not, they didn't. They committ a lot of turnovers because they get impatient (SEE G.B.--Rodgers, DET--Stafford, N.O.--Brees, ATL.--Ryan). This kind of D is perfect for that. Their Olines suck and they are always looking for that Big Play. BUT it KILLS us when got a patient, and confident QB/OC (SEE MIN-Ponder, BAL-Flacco {Thanksgiving Game in '11),

Having said that, I believe in situational football. This requires MICRO-management--down, distance, location on the field. Like, to me, having a two deep safety look when they are on your 6-10 yd line doesn't make sense. Safeties playing back don't do you ANY good in the RZ. What? Are they going to throw it over your head? Double the TE, or Blitz or SOMETHING. Do SOMETHING different, because they got you on the ropes now. But no, Fangio plays it safe and stick to the macro-management game plan. He is predictable and it is time he grew a little. He has the players--he has Vets in the system.

You make valid points for being more aggressive. My counter-point is--Let's not lose our damn minds and overhaul something that aint broke. When they are on our side of the field, I think we could definitely be more aggressive.

Another problem is that once a team figures out something to beat us with (GB using a WR lined up as a TE in the redzone, running a "Shake" route) another team used it AGAIN with effectiveness--BAL in the SB ran the same play and scored on it.
[ Edited by GoldandGarnet on Aug 11, 2013 at 5:56 AM ]
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
See, here is where I think we need to really think outside the bun.

I found this entirely hilarious. I could see Burger King develop an add campaign based on creative sandwiches--we think outside the bun.

Seriously, I am not knocking you. I really found the typo inherently funny.
[ Edited by buck on Aug 11, 2013 at 5:52 AM ]
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
See, here is where I think we need to really think outside the bun.

I found this entirely hilarious. I could see Burger King develop an add campaign based on creative sandwiches--we think outside the bun.

Seriously, I am not knocking you. I really found the typo inherently funny.

Not sure that was a typo... Happened twice.
Dude must really like Taco Bell.
this guy looks like the real f**king deal
I agree, I think the 49ers should blitz more. The defense did get too boring and predictable.