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Would you trade....

Trade Kap for Demarcus Ware and start Skelton.

CHAMPIONSHIP
This isn't a question of whether or not we want to pay the man. This is the salary cap.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I think you are missing the point here. You are talking about potential issues that could happen in the long run and most of us are talking about legit WR performance to help us make a run to garner success for this very season. Our passing game as it stands has been put into the freezer. We need all the help we can get before we can unthaw ourselves.

The potential problems with Gordon are NOT necessarily limited to the long run. .

We could make the trade, We could use a second round pick or third round pick on Gordon in attempt to solve the current problem.

And Gordon could violate the substance rules and we could lose him before getting to the play-offs.

If that were to happen, we would have lost Gordon and we would have lost a valuable draft pick.

Gordon's sense of entitlement and poor work ethic could damage or disrupt seriously the team dynamic and have a negative short, medium, and long range impact.

If that happens, the potential benefits gained from the trade are diminished and we still lose the pick we gave up for Gordon.

We simply do not know enough to read the future--the short run or the long run future. Baalke and Harbaugh also do not know enough to read the future.

At the end of the day, Baalke and Harbaugh have to make the call. They have to make those judgments.

As I said, before I am glad that the responsibility for the choice to be made does lie with me.

But, it seems pretty clear the potential trade has both potential benefits and potential risks--benefits and risks for the short, medium, and long run.

Let's see what happens.

I always get a kick out of these sorts of comments. One player coming into OUR locker room in the middle of the season is gonna disrupt our team dyamic?

This team is better than that, and not much will effect the team Dynamic.

If Gordon didnt work out, we are out of a second, if he does work out, our offense is a SB contending offense, and our WR core is repaired for the future. How many NFC championships of superbowls are we going to attend with s**tty subpar WR's?

Team chemistry will be fine. This is a strong team, and one player will not cause any disruption to anything whatsoever. Guys like Cox, Boone, VD, Wright, Etc. have all had issues with either substance abuse or had a diva attitude, and they have worked out for us.

Again, this is a young 22 y/o WR with a codeine problem. A change from the browns to a winning team may be all he needs to get his head on. It may not be, but a second certainly is not too high of a price to gamble.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Like I said even if his off-field issues resurface, we would have blown just one 2nd round pick. We have enough draft ammo to swallow that. The point is we need the help NOW. Plus given how solid our locker room is, there is no way Josh Gordon as an individual can completely destroy our locker room. I have more confidence in our vets and the deeply engrained culture that can withstand it no problem. Worse come to worst, we will just trade him away after the season. I didn't say there was no risk. This is a high risk high reward type of a move. Like I had said before, if you want to go after the big one, sometimes you will need to make bold moves especially considering how serious our current passing game issue is.

I was pointed out that the problems were not limited to the long run. You clearly indicated that they were so limited.

I agree that given how solid our locker room is, there is no way Josh Gordon as an individual can completely destroy our locker room.

But, I never said anything about completely destroying anything. I said his sense of entitlement could hurt or damage the locker room enough to diminish the potential benefits of the trade.

I see you corrected your mistake.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:

The word "destroy" might be a little strong, what I am saying is if Gordon steps out of line, I am sure the vets will step in to sort him out, he won't stand a chance to even "damage" our locker room. Like I said, if he doesn't respond in a positive manner, then just trade him away.

He could damage our locker room, but I am not going to enter a debate over the meaning of damage.

If he doesn't respond in a positive manner, we could just trade him for another 7th round pick.

I would rather keep the 2nd, but maybe I am just a little strange.

Wait im confused? See previous post.....
Originally posted by buck:
Josh Gordon won't be traded by Browns, Chud says

The same stance that was taken earlier in the week applies today: The Browns might not be actively shopping Gordon, but they sure can listen.


Some off-field concerns and suspension risks make any Gordon trade tricky, especially if it involves a high draft pick.

Still, that won't stop general manager Michael Lombardi and CEO Joe Banner from listening to offers, regardless of how many times the coach brushes aside the notion of a trade.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000259692/article/josh-gordon-wont-be-traded-by-browns-chud-says

All face saving for the FO with their fans. Lombardi wants nothing to do with Gordon. He even called the 2nd round pick a wasted pick i believe. If the right offer comes through they will ship him out in an instant.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,536
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Wait im confused? See previous post.....

Yes. I did notice that you are confused.

Glad, I could contribute.
There are too many rumours at this point. In terms of wideouts, apart from Josh Gordon, there are still Kenny Britt and even Hakeen Nicks. There could be as many as 4 teams in question which might compete for one of these guys, 49ers, Lions, Falcons and even the Patriots.
Originally posted by Rascal:
There are too many rumours at this point. In terms of wideouts, apart from Josh Gordon, there are still Kenny Britt and even Hakeen Nicks. There could be as many as 4 teams in question which might compete for one of these guys, 49ers, Lions, Falcons and even the Patriots.

I don't see the Falcons being "buyers" this year. In fact I wouldn't be shocked if they ship Gonzo to Pats or Chiefs. I love Gordon's ability, but if he fails another drug test then there's a big issue at hand. Conditional 3rd rounder, becomes 2nd rounder if he nets over 1000 yards this season.
Originally posted by shaneblonien:
I don't see the Falcons being "buyers" this year. In fact I wouldn't be shocked if they ship Gonzo to Pats or Chiefs. I love Gordon's ability, but if he fails another drug test then there's a big issue at hand. Conditional 3rd rounder, becomes 2nd rounder if he nets over 1000 yards this season.


Yes, I read the rumour about shipping Gonzalez to the Chiefs, but for whom or what ? Are they really giving up on the season already ? If they haven't then they would definitely need some wideout help. With Julio gone for the season and Roddy still far from 100%, they are in desperate need for WRs given they are a passing team. 1 and 4 is a long shot and they will probably need 9 more wins to get into the playoffs. Oh well, you might be right, it could well be just too steep a mountain to climb.
Originally posted by buck:
Josh Gordon won't be traded by Browns, Chud says

The same stance that was taken earlier in the week applies today: The Browns might not be actively shopping Gordon, but they sure can listen.


Some off-field concerns and suspension risks make any Gordon trade tricky, especially if it involves a high draft pick.

Still, that won't stop general manager Michael Lombardi and CEO Joe Banner from listening to offers, regardless of how many times the coach brushes aside the notion of a trade.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000259692/article/josh-gordon-wont-be-traded-by-browns-chud-says

GM's are full of disinformation all the time when it comes to trading players any sports fan should know dat...

Case in point...

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...cy-Harvin.html
[quote]General manager Rick Spielman said as much in a small meeting with beat reporters this afternoon, according to Tom Pelissero of 1500 ESPN."We have no intent of trading Percy Harvin," said Spielman, who is preparing to head to the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis next week where Harvin will likely remain a hot topic in league trade circles.[/quote]
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
All face saving for the FO with their fans. Lombardi wants nothing to do with Gordon. He even called the 2nd round pick a wasted pick i believe. If the right offer comes through they will ship him out in an instant.

This, Chud ain't running s**t in Cleveland, Banner and Lombardi say "Jump!" and he says "how high." Him reiterating that Gordon won't be traded is meaningless to me.
I think our coaching staff has gone through EVERY scenerio that has been discussed here. Most importantly, how effective will Crabtree/Manningham even be once they return. The reason we aren't making this trade is NOT because they will be coming back soon. It is because they have faith in what Baldwin brings to the table. He has only played in 2 games so far. Watch for him to have a breakout game vs Arizona.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Wait im confused? See previous post.....

Yes. I did notice that you are confused.

Glad, I could contribute.

Confused posters are confusing
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,536
Originally posted by Eli_23:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Wait im confused? See previous post.....

Yes. I did notice that you are confused.

Glad, I could contribute.

Confused posters are confusing

I am both.