Would you trade....

Originally posted by Baldie:
Gordon can make the WR corps better NOW. I do agree that using the 2nd pick to trade up is a good idea, but we're talking about this season, not next season. Our window to win a SB is not going to get any bigger with the other teams getting more powerful (Hawks, Saints, Broncos, etc.). In the next season or two we are going to probably lose a couple key guys to FA. We can't sit around waiting to see how we do in the draft next season.

I say make the trade! The worst that can happen is he F's up and gets suspended but you'd have to think he'd straighten up with a SB contender.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second here. First of all, Peyton Manning is 38 years old. Retirement can not be far away for him (although with the we he's playing now, you never know). Second of all, the Hawks also have some major potential free agents coming up soon (Russel Wilson, Richard Sherman, Marshawn Lynch, etc), so they're going to suffer some losses with them (or with some other players as they make cap room to keep them). If our window is closing in a year or two, there's no reason you can't say the same about other teams. So, let's not pretend that our window is closing but is staying wide open for everyone else.

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
There is no way Gordon will effect our team negatively. Not with guys like Boldin, V Davis, Willis, J Smith, Gore, Bowman, Brooks, Whitner, Kaep, and even Crabtree to tell him to STFU and know your role if he needs it. This is a no-brainer move and one we desperately need right now. You cant put all you eggs in 1 basket and hope Crabtree and Ham will play like their old selves after serious injuries.

AMEN!!!!! What I've been saying all along. If they had come back early in the season, maybe. But we're talking about them returning at mid to later in the season when games are critical.

Absolutely. I think is only reasonable to expect both Mario and Crab to take at least 2-3 games after practising for 2 weeks before they can get close to being their old selves. By then it will be when ? Pretty much the tail end of the season. In the meantime, we have to win as many games as we can in trying to catch up to the Seahawks. The home game against the Seahawks could well determine whether we will have to go through Seattle in the playoffs. This to me is a must-win and we will need to have all our weapons hot for this game to stand a chance. Losing to them at the Stick will kill the morale and momentum of the team before we go into the postseason. We can't afford to let that happen.

Originally posted by Baldie:
Gordon can make the WR corps better NOW. I do agree that using the 2nd pick to trade up is a good idea, but we're talking about this season, not next season. Our window to win a SB is not going to get any bigger with the other teams getting more powerful (Hawks, Saints, Broncos, etc.). In the next season or two we are going to probably lose a couple key guys to FA. We can't sit around waiting to see how we do in the draft next season.

I say make the trade! The worst that can happen is he F's up and gets suspended but you'd have to think he'd straighten up with a SB contender.

Make the move no doubt !! Got to think big if we want to make a legit run !!

Originally posted by Rascal:
But, you are only focusing on the negatives of the trade.

Nowhere in your argument talks about the potential upside of this trade say of him balling out with Kap and perhaps even helping us to go to the Super Bowl.

Trust me, if the guy can ball even if has certain off-field issues, there will still be teams which would be happy to take a chance. It also depends on how bad the team needs a stud WR and how much they are willing to pay for such a guy. And I am quite sure we will be able to trade him for more than a 7th round. What do you think we would get for Aldon Smith if we were to trade him away even with his current off-field issues ? At least quite a lot more than a 7th I would say.

There are head coaches out there who believes they can sort out most players such as Belichick, but of course right now he is not in a huge need for a WR, but he is just an example of the type of HCs who are willing to take in guys with off-field issues. Just think of the number of guys with issues he has taken in to date, if you discount Hernandez who totally screwed it up, there are tonnes who worked out OK.

Agreed ^ I think Rascal is making the most astute points about a trade for Gordon.

I don't have time to follow all 32 teams and every player on every teams rosters...but as i watched the Browns play the Vikings a few weeks ago Gordon immediately stood out as the best offensive player on the field in that game. Never heard of him much looked him up 2nd round pick in the supplemental draft ok. Then was reading 49ers fans wanted Gordon. This kid on the field is an absolute beast 6'4 225lbs speed to burn beats press coverage gains separation excellent yac ability fights for the ball Gordon is the real deal. Not delusional we need Gordon now 49ers passing game is really hurting how good are Crabs and Mario going to be after coming back? Gordon still adds excellent WR depth.

Even if worst comes to worse and Gordon f**ks up the loss of a 2nd rounder won't hurt the team...it just won't...we survived the Jenkins 1st round bust and with 13 picks we can fill needs no problem. I'd rather give up LMJ in a deal than a 2nd though. Gordon is a stud do it!!!

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Baldie:
Gordon can make the WR corps better NOW. I do agree that using the 2nd pick to trade up is a good idea, but we're talking about this season, not next season. Our window to win a SB is not going to get any bigger with the other teams getting more powerful (Hawks, Saints, Broncos, etc.). In the next season or two we are going to probably lose a couple key guys to FA. We can't sit around waiting to see how we do in the draft next season.

I say make the trade! The worst that can happen is he F's up and gets suspended but you'd have to think he'd straighten up with a SB contender.

Make the move no doubt !! Got to think big if we want to make a legit run !!

I agree, get him for now. We need weapons, now. Make it happen Harbaalke.

Rascal do you think the Browns would want LMJ?

Can you suggest a trade package involving LMJ that would work for both teams?

Thank you in advance.

Originally posted by 49ersMVP:

Even if worst comes to worse and Gordon f**ks up the loss of a 2nd rounder won't hurt the team...it just won't...we survived the Jenkins 1st round bust and with 13 picks we can fill needs no problem. I'd rather give up LMJ in a deal than a 2nd though. Gordon is a stud do it!!!

How did we "survive" the Jenkins pick? We're now desperately in need of a wide receiver and are contemplating trading a 2nd round pick for another one. What if Gordon gets suspended for a year? Now we're going to waste even more resources trying to find another receiver!

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:

There is no way Gordon will effect our team negatively. Not with guys like Boldin, V Davis, Willis, J Smith, Gore, Bowman, Brooks, Whitner, Kaep, and even Crabtree to tell him to STFU and know your role if he needs it. This is a no-brainer move and one we desperately need right now. You cant put all you eggs in 1 basket and hope Crabtree and Ham will play like their old selves after serious injuries.

Exactly! There are plenty of guys in the locker room that would keep him in line should he ever cross it. And personally, I think it's kind of a stretch to ASSUME he'd be a cancer in the locker room in the first place. Maybe what Josh needs is a change of environment and playing for a contending team couldn't hurt.

Gordon is a legit deep threat. He is exactly what Kap and the passing game needs to get going. There's a risk but seriously, at this point, the FO is in no position to scoff off WR help. Why wait until next year's draft to address the WR situation when it needs to be addressed NOW? We are not a team that's rebuilding. Our window is still open and this receiving core needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. Can't expect Crabs and Manningham to immediately perform at the level they were pre injury and put all the pressure on them to pick up the slack. It's simply unrealistic. Adding Gordon instantly makes us better, he can be counted on to make plays NOW, and takes a lot of the pressure off of Crabs to rush back if he's not ready in November. Baalke needs to make it happen.

Originally posted by 49ersMVP:
Rascal do you think the Browns would want LMJ?

Can you suggest a trade package involving LMJ that would work for both teams?

Thank you in advance.

LMJ and a 2nd round pick.

Originally posted by theduke85:
How did we "survive" the Jenkins pick? We're now desperately in need of a wide receiver and are contemplating trading a 2nd round pick for another one. What if Gordon gets suspended for a year? Now we're going to waste even more resources trying to find another receiver!

Baalke should of drafted Patterson in the 2013 draft they knew Jenkins was a potential bust by the end of last season.

If Gordon screws up we still have the picks to trade up and get a Sammy Watkins. We have 13 picks limited cap players to resign and limited roster spots.

No lock that whoever we would have taken with the 2nd round pick helps the team so it's not fair to say that the 2nd we give up for Gordon is going to be a stud.

If Gordon did not have the weed issues he would have gone top 10 in the draft he's that good of a WR.

And where is the 49ers passing offense ranked 31st or something?

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
There is no way Gordon will effect our team negatively. Not with guys like Boldin, V Davis, Willis, J Smith, Gore, Bowman, Brooks, Whitner, Kaep, and even Crabtree to tell him to STFU and know your role if he needs it. This is a no-brainer move and one we desperately need right now. You cant put all you eggs in 1 basket and hope Crabtree and Ham will play like their old selves after serious injuries.

I agree with you...we have good team guys...but any idea why our leaders couldn't straighten out Aldon Smith?

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by 49ersMVP:

Even if worst comes to worse and Gordon f**ks up the loss of a 2nd rounder won't hurt the team...it just won't...we survived the Jenkins 1st round bust and with 13 picks we can fill needs no problem. I'd rather give up LMJ in a deal than a 2nd though. Gordon is a stud do it!!!

How did we "survive" the Jenkins pick? We're now desperately in need of a wide receiver and are contemplating trading a 2nd round pick for another one. What if Gordon gets suspended for a year? Now we're going to waste even more resources trying to find another receiver!

We made it to the Superbowl with a useless pick which we gave away to Kansas City.

Speaking of which, I think Baldwin should get more looks. Even though his one target was an incompletion, he looked good on the play. I want to see the kid get more targets this upcoming week, since last week we didn't really need to pass very much.

As for Josh Gordon, I honestly think this team could survive without the second round pick, but my problem is the massive overcrowding at the WR position. How many recievers does it take to catch a pass? Apparently 8, if you count Gordon along with the rest. I think that is too much. In addition, to bring an immature kid who knows he's the sh*t, that will probably take forever to learn the playbook, will be a real pain in the ass to deal with, and I know us 49er fans have very little patience with players not performing well. Look at Nnamdi, he hasn't even played poorly this season, and the WZ already hates him, I don't think Gordon will be very popular or useful unless Harbaugh trains him to just run go routes and catch a couple long balls for us to limit the playbook. We will see.

Me personally, I kind of want to stay away and stick with our power running thing we got going again, but if Baalke bites, I won't be upset because I trust him by now with his decisions. If they think they can make Gordon work, then I'd like to see what they do because it will be interesting and the potential upside is HUGE if this pans out.

Originally posted by Kronos2560:
We made it to the Superbowl with a useless pick which we gave away to Kansas City.

Speaking of which, I think Baldwin should get more looks. Even though his one target was an incompletion, he looked good on the play. I want to see the kid get more targets this upcoming week, since last week we didn't really need to pass very much.

As for Josh Gordon, I honestly think this team could survive without the second round pick, but my problem is the massive overcrowding at the WR position. How many recievers does it take to catch a pass? Apparently 8, if you count Gordon along with the rest. I think that is too much. In addition, to bring an immature kid who knows he's the sh*t, that will probably take forever to learn the playbook, will be a real pain in the ass to deal with, and I know us 49er fans have very little patience with players not performing well. Look at Nnamdi, he hasn't even played poorly this season, and the WZ already hates him, I don't think Gordon will be very popular or useful unless Harbaugh trains him to just run go routes and catch a couple long balls for us to limit the playbook. We will see.

Me personally, I kind of want to stay away and stick with our power running thing we got going again, but if Baalke bites, I won't be upset because I trust him by now with his decisions. If they think they can make Gordon work, then I'd like to see what they do because it will be interesting and the potential upside is HUGE if this pans out.

Huge question mark if we can win the division and the NFC if we have to play in Seattle with the current WR group.

Again, Crabs and Mario are no locks to return to form.

Gordon is way better than Baldwin.

Kap continues to play like he has and he'll end up with a mid tier contract.

Originally posted by 49ersMVP:

Originally posted by Kronos2560:
We made it to the Superbowl with a useless pick which we gave away to Kansas City.

Speaking of which, I think Baldwin should get more looks. Even though his one target was an incompletion, he looked good on the play. I want to see the kid get more targets this upcoming week, since last week we didn't really need to pass very much.

As for Josh Gordon, I honestly think this team could survive without the second round pick, but my problem is the massive overcrowding at the WR position. How many recievers does it take to catch a pass? Apparently 8, if you count Gordon along with the rest. I think that is too much. In addition, to bring an immature kid who knows he's the sh*t, that will probably take forever to learn the playbook, will be a real pain in the ass to deal with, and I know us 49er fans have very little patience with players not performing well. Look at Nnamdi, he hasn't even played poorly this season, and the WZ already hates him, I don't think Gordon will be very popular or useful unless Harbaugh trains him to just run go routes and catch a couple long balls for us to limit the playbook. We will see.

Me personally, I kind of want to stay away and stick with our power running thing we got going again, but if Baalke bites, I won't be upset because I trust him by now with his decisions. If they think they can make Gordon work, then I'd like to see what they do because it will be interesting and the potential upside is HUGE if this pans out.

Huge question mark if we can win the division and the NFC if we have to play in Seattle with the current WR group.

Again, Crabs and Mario are no locks to return to form.

Gordon is way better than Baldwin.

Bold #2) I agree, they are coming back from serious injury and it would be nice to have Gordon because of that.

Bold #3) Never said otherwise, all I said was that I wanted to see Baldwin get more looks since he only got 1 last game in an inherently poor passing performance where we didn't need to throw the ball.

Bold #1) That is a ways down the road, but is highly plausible. I would rather focus on the next game and see how we look against them then, we might solve our Seattle problem in week 14 and have more confidence in this playoff game going forward. Like I said in my last post, I really like what we have in this power running attack right now, and in the game against Seattle, we pretty much threw the ball the entire game. In Seattle's game against the Texans (y'know, the team we just slaughtered?) Arian Foster and Ben Tate exposed the Seattle line in rushing for over 146 yards on the ground. The Seahawks linebackers are freaking trash and the fans know it, which in turn shows that we have the tools to replicate what the Texans did, and I think when Vernon Davis gets healthy again by that time, we will be so much more dynamic and prepared to win that game. Week 14 will be a bigger indicator to whether or not we can beat Seattle in the playoffs. A much bigger indicator than if we have Josh Gordon for the NFCCG or not, it's just silly.

Now back to my previous (and unanswered) concern. Don't you think getting Josh Gordon this deep in the season will make things really difficult for him to learn the playbook? We have seen former pro bowlers and high draft picks flounder in complicated offenses due to the difficulties of learning a complicated playbook. Look at Chad Ochostupido, or AJ Jenkins, both played in complex offenses and had no idea what was going on, how is this going to be any easier for Gordon?

But then you look at it from the other perspective, maybe Gordon can compensate the difficulty of the playbook with his tremendous talent. Harbaugh and Roman have been dumbing down the playbook recently to help the offense get back on track, and maybe they could have Gordon's route tree be a lot more simplified to help his progression in this offense. This is what I would think they would to to help the trade if it did happen. I am just weighing all of the possibilities.