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Welcome Newest 49er S Eric Reid

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Harbalke knows way more than any of us do about these players. They have gotten to watch them up close and from the coaches tape. I trust whatever moves that they make.

It is not just knowing a player, it is having a plan, I really don't think many teams have a plan are winging it. JH will succeed becuase he is not just straight out of college, but had NFL bloodlines as a player, coach not to mention being raised by a father that was a coach. Walsh was like that also.
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
In your opinion. Obviously, the Niners felt differently about Reid, and have proven time and time again that they have a pretty good idea what they are doing. Until they prove themselves incompetent, I'm going to assume their opinion of a player is more valid than yours.

That is up to you. Few GM's are incompetent because they tend to be fired quickly if so. It is all about hitting more often than others (the vast majority of time, GM's will miss, not hit). I would encourage you to keep an open mind about each and every player in each and every year because there are no geniuses in player evaluation. If so, a specific team or handful of teams would win every year. That is not the case.

Oh, I am completely open-minded. Don't confuse my optimism with close-mindedness. In fact, you won't see a grade from me EVER. And while player evaluation isn't a perfect science, it's also is not a game of craps. No one can predict how good of a player Reid will be, but I'd rather put my chips with the guys running our team, the same guys who have proved so far to be pretty darn good at talent evaluation in the draft. I'm mean we could be stuck with Gabbert as our franchise QB

ZING!

Ouch -b***h slap!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
The Reid pick surprised me only because I believe the league is going away from big hits and will pass rules to enforce tackling over collisions. This puts Reid at a disadvantage as the main knock on him is that, like Goldson, he tended to miss some tackles when going for a knockout. But his physical and mental strengths make him a good choice whatever the rules.

Big hits are still allowed, just have to watch how you hit. Reid seems to lean and use his shoulder to do so, which is okay, the key is not leading or lowering your helmet.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I say this in kindness to all who follow the draft: For those who trust the front office, I think you should trust your own evaluation more. Your opinion may, or may not match what the brass think, but it will be yours. Blindly trusting the front office (as some do on this board) gets you an Aldon Smith one year and a Jenkins the next.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Janoris Jenkins last year, coming into the draft, was superior to AJ Jenkins. Trust what you see. Sure, you won't get every single detail that the team has access to, but if you watch enough games, and you do your research on measurables, and know the history of what usually pans out and what doesn't, you have just a fair shot as guys who do this for a living. Trust what you see, not a person who represents your organization.

I know that one guy on the board got dogpiled a couple of years ago with his BPA board of 1. Christian Ponder and 2. Ricky Stanzi. I think he was brave to put it out there and defend it with decent arguments. He was wrong, but it was his evaluation and he stood by it.

In the end, you are going to get a broad perspective on players. In the case with Reid, some say he was great value as a mid-first rounder, like Charles Davis of NFL Network. Others, like Daniel Jeremiah, also of NFL Network, think he presents mid-late second round value. Who is right? Nobody knows. That is up to each person to determine.

My argument has always been to those who base their opinion solely on the brass, and tend to be the most aggressive in defending the pick: You do not need to depend on the team's scout and coaches and GM to determine your perspective on a player. You can do this on your own. Trust your instincts.

Finally, if you base your opinion of a player solely on the experts, you end up with a set of picks that didn't look like Seattle's last year. Irvin, Wagner and Wilson turned out to be pretty good, even though the Seahawks were panned by many to have had the worst draft. Trust your instincts.

Got us Kaepernick, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, and several others as well. Also got us to the Super Bowl two years after that seemed to be an absurd notion. The front office has earned the trust that many of us have in them.

I "trust my instincts" on things that I'm educated on, because there's a foundation and reason for there to be trust. Trusting your instincts over that of people who know considerably more about a subject (and a solid track record) is merely hubris.

Trusting your instincts give you Blaine Gabbert & Adam Carriker over Aldon Smith & Patrick Willis, just as it gives you JJ Watt & Mike Iupati. Goes both ways.
[ Edited by LA9erFan on Apr 26, 2013 at 12:05 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
How do you know those other guys are "great safeties?" What if the 49ers scouts thought that Baby Whitner and Cyprien were s**t? What if Baalke had Reid as having high 1st round value while the others were 2nd round value at best?

I hate when people make these assumptions that just because the draftniks viewed a player a certain way, that the organization would as well. Reid was the player they wanted, obviously he's got the traits that they value in a safety and the other guys didn't....bottomline.
I agree, this is sort of where I'm at too.

There's a ton of talk of this being a "deep safety draft". A "deep" draft according to who? Mock draft websites? The same sites/analysts that listed Sharriff Floyd as a top 3-5 prospect? Well, why did Floyd drop to 23? Why did the Niners pass on Floyd? The point is, the 49ers internal valuation of Reid is obviously much different than publicly-available information. If it weren't, then common sense says they wouldn't have traded up to get Reid at all -- they would've just waited around to get one of the other safeties.

PS: who is "Baby Whitner" -- which guy? Elam?
Originally posted by WildBill:
Big hits are still allowed, just have to watch how you hit. Reid seems to lean and use his shoulder to do so, which is okay, the key is not leading or lowering your helmet.

Yes, but I wonder what the future holds as lawsuits pile up from former players. May have some major changes...but I understand that it's a physical game and you can't guess at changes coming. Plus, Reid seems to have the intelligence and ability to morph his game if necessary...very smart and coach-able.

MadDog--I understand your point of view, and for those of you who spend a lot of time evaluating the prospects it may make sense to second guess the front office. But when you think of Harbaugh sitting in Reid's living room years ago trying to recruit him to Stanford, and all the HS film he watched, and then the college film and perhaps personal contacts with his coaches and father...just no way I am going to be as knowledgeable as Harbaugh...whether I spend every weekend watching college football or not. I read a great deal but that's not the same as having interviewed a kid and following him for four to six years. But to each their own!
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I say this in kindness to all who follow the draft: For those who trust the front office, I think you should trust your own evaluation more. Your opinion may, or may not match what the brass think, but it will be yours. Blindly trusting the front office (as some do on this board) gets you an Aldon Smith one year and a Jenkins the next.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Janoris Jenkins last year, coming into the draft, was superior to AJ Jenkins. Trust what you see. Sure, you won't get every single detail that the team has access to, but if you watch enough games, and you do your research on measurables, and know the history of what usually pans out and what doesn't, you have just a fair shot as guys who do this for a living. Trust what you see, not a person who represents your organization.

I know that one guy on the board got dogpiled a couple of years ago with his BPA board of 1. Christian Ponder and 2. Ricky Stanzi. I think he was brave to put it out there and defend it with decent arguments. He was wrong, but it was his evaluation and he stood by it.

In the end, you are going to get a broad perspective on players. In the case with Reid, some say he was great value as a mid-first rounder, like Charles Davis of NFL Network. Others, like Daniel Jeremiah, also of NFL Network, think he presents mid-late second round value. Who is right? Nobody knows. That is up to each person to determine.

My argument has always been to those who base their opinion solely on the brass, and tend to be the most aggressive in defending the pick: You do not need to depend on the team's scout and coaches and GM to determine your perspective on a player. You can do this on your own. Trust your instincts.

Finally, if you base your opinion of a player solely on the experts, you end up with a set of picks that didn't look like Seattle's last year. Irvin, Wagner and Wilson turned out to be pretty good, even though the Seahawks were panned by many to have had the worst draft. Trust your instincts.

Aren't you contradicting yourself. Seattle is the Brass and they did it their way. Just like the Niners are doing. I will add another thing-you cannot judge a picks merely on what you see on tape also, does he fit your system? To change your system if it is working is asking for trouble. Sure you build around a player like Kaep, still when it comes time for his replacement you get a guy similar. Dalton was never in the mode of JH QBs and neither was Gabbert and some of the others. People keep forgetting to take that into account. You hear it all the time if a guy us made for .3-4 or 4-3 etc.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Got us Kaepernick, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, and several others as well. Also got us to the Super Bowl two years after that seemed to be an absurd notion. The front office has earned the trust that many of us have in them.

I "trust my instincts" on things that I'm educated on, because there's a foundation and reason for there to be trust. Trusting your instincts over that of people who know considerably more about a subject (and a solid track record) is merely hubris.

Trusting your instincts give you Blaine Gabbert & Adam Carriker over Aldon Smith & Patrick Willis, just as it gives you JJ Watt & Mike Iupati. Goes both ways.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
It's Reid's apparent smarts that intrigues me. The Niner DBs and mainly Goldson were out of position in some critical plays last year. Many opinions have Reid as a take charge guy with helping to set up players in the correct position. Another player that gets himself and the secondary lined up correctly will be a huge plus.

This! This can NOT be overstated enough. Goldson was a good player but let's be honest, he CLEARLY wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed (e.g. constant PI fouls, fighting in games, all-about-me mentality/highlight posturing, how he handled his contract negotiations, blown coverages and not learning from them - see double moves, etc). Another guy with questionable IQ is Culliver.

Whitner is probably the smartest DB we have but physically, he's just a terrible physical matchup against anyone over 5'11" in coverage. Reid is a cerebral player, has the highest wonderlic of the S's, prides himself as leading his team and having the dot on his helmet, etc. This means he can play both FS and SS and is a leader and is very coachable.

It also makes Whitner VERY dispensable this year with his huge salary and NFL-leading TD's given up. I'd expect Woodson to sign with us and play FS and Reid to play SS. Or the other way around...both S's are interchangeable. I also expect another S chosen later as well.

A bit off topic, but am I the only guy that thinks that Culliver is not for long with the Niners. Quite apart from laking marbles, he seems like a chronic disgruntled type. He took a swipe at the organization about the Niners being disingenuous when they were "negotiating" with Goldson. Niners better start drafting CBs now. They're gonna need several replacement real soon, beginning next year.

I really doubt that Whitner goes this year. It would be too traumatic for the team's backfield. But I do hope that an upgrade is in order for next year.

Still have the nagging sense that someone more impactful could have been had at #18. I have to say, that while I'm still not 100% with where the pick occured (hate giving up the #74), I do feel better about it with hearing what some others, whose opinions I respect, being so high on the guy.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I say this in kindness to all who follow the draft: For those who trust the front office, I think you should trust your own evaluation more. Your opinion may, or may not match what the brass think, but it will be yours. Blindly trusting the front office (as some do on this board) gets you an Aldon Smith one year and a Jenkins the next.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Janoris Jenkins last year, coming into the draft, was superior to AJ Jenkins. Trust what you see. Sure, you won't get every single detail that the team has access to, but if you watch enough games, and you do your research on measurables, and know the history of what usually pans out and what doesn't, you have just a fair shot as guys who do this for a living. Trust what you see, not a person who represents your organization.

I know that one guy on the board got dogpiled a couple of years ago with his BPA board of 1. Christian Ponder and 2. Ricky Stanzi. I think he was brave to put it out there and defend it with decent arguments. He was wrong, but it was his evaluation and he stood by it.

In the end, you are going to get a broad perspective on players. In the case with Reid, some say he was great value as a mid-first rounder, like Charles Davis of NFL Network. Others, like Daniel Jeremiah, also of NFL Network, think he presents mid-late second round value. Who is right? Nobody knows. That is up to each person to determine.

My argument has always been to those who base their opinion solely on the brass, and tend to be the most aggressive in defending the pick: You do not need to depend on the team's scout and coaches and GM to determine your perspective on a player. You can do this on your own. Trust your instincts.

Finally, if you base your opinion of a player solely on the experts, you end up with a set of picks that didn't look like Seattle's last year. Irvin, Wagner and Wilson turned out to be pretty good, even though the Seahawks were panned by many to have had the worst draft. Trust your instincts.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Big hits are still allowed, just have to watch how you hit. Reid seems to lean and use his shoulder to do so, which is okay, the key is not leading or lowering your helmet.

Yes, but I wonder what the future holds as lawsuits pile up from former players. May have some major changes...but I understand that it's a physical game and you can't guess at changes coming. Plus, Reid seems to have the intelligence and ability to morph his game if necessary...very smart and coach-able.

MadDog--I understand your point of view, and for those of you who spend a lot of time evaluating the prospects it may make sense to second guess the front office. But when you think of Harbaugh sitting in Reid's living room years ago trying to recruit him to Stanford, and all the HS film he watched, and then the college film and perhaps personal contacts with his coaches and father...just no way I am going to be as knowledgeable as Harbaugh...whether I spend every weekend watching college football or not. I read a great deal but that's not the same as having interviewed a kid and following him for four to six years. But to each their own!
Well if they change the game too much, it is going to called touch fooball.

The thing is also, I doubt, that we are privy to all the film available on him. Not to mention on all the players available. Nor can anyone honestly say that they watched evry game and every player. There is simply not enought time, there is film that colleges make available on the player to teams that include isolated and bad play as well as well as highlights, this I know. These are film not avaiable to the public.
Anyone want to talk about the thread subject?
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Got us Kaepernick, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, and several others as well. Also got us to the Super Bowl two years after that seemed to be an absurd notion. The front office has earned the trust that many of us have in them.

I "trust my instincts" on things that I'm educated on, because there's a foundation and reason for there to be trust. Trusting your instincts over that of people who know considerably more about a subject (and a solid track record) is merely hubris.

Trusting your instincts give you Blaine Gabbert & Adam Carriker over Aldon Smith & Patrick Willis, just as it gives you JJ Watt & Mike Iupati. Goes both ways.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I know right! Just because we pay hundreds of dollars on tickets, jerseys, memorbilia, future licenses for seats, and $10 Coors Lights that we're somehow experts on college players that most watch YouTube videos on lol. IBWT.

Wait - Did we trade our second 3rd round pick (#93) to Dallas instead of the first one (#74), or the other way around? I could have sworn it was #74, but ESPN's draft tracker shows us holding that pick and Dallas now owning #93.
Originally posted by English:
Anyone want to talk about the thread subject?

I actually clicked on grade A, but would have actually give it a B+, only because we had to move up so high. If he gets to the all rookie team and makes the probowl then A+

How's that?