Vance "Beastmode" McDonald Thread

Originally posted by Lifer:
I don't blame Vernon for Vance's slow development. For the first couple years, every time he'd get an opportunity to make a difference, he'd drop the pass or fumble it away. If you don't make plays that are there to be made, the coaches won't call your number and the QB won't look for you.

Disregarding statistics for a moment, the eyeball test tells me that Vance has gotten incrementally better every year, to the point that he's now a pretty good starting TE. Problem is, he ate up a roster spot and contributed next to nothing for 2 years. Now that he's about to enter into his second contract, he's finally showing up. I don't blame Vance for this, I'm sure he was working hard. I blame Baalke. As a GM, you've got to get production out of your rookies and second year guys. Baalke is too patient and takes too many guys, like McDonald, that aren't ready to contribute right away.

Um, what? McDonald was central to the power blocking scheme HaRoman ran here. So much they never used him in the passing game...ever. That is a philosophical personnel choice. It wasn't until game 9 of last year (WCO under Geep) that Gabbert even started targeting him. Blame Baalke? Blame HaRoman...it's the coaches choice for how they use their own players. ORRRRR, don't blame anyone b/c HaRoman got out of him what they wanted and needed for their system. The new coaches are now using him differently and naturally, it's more visible to fans (it's not like fans are spotlighting a TE in a power blocking scheme --- LOL).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Lifer:
I don't blame Vernon for Vance's slow development. For the first couple years, every time he'd get an opportunity to make a difference, he'd drop the pass or fumble it away. If you don't make plays that are there to be made, the coaches won't call your number and the QB won't look for you.

Disregarding statistics for a moment, the eyeball test tells me that Vance has gotten incrementally better every year, to the point that he's now a pretty good starting TE. Problem is, he ate up a roster spot and contributed next to nothing for 2 years. Now that he's about to enter into his second contract, he's finally showing up. I don't blame Vance for this, I'm sure he was working hard. I blame Baalke. As a GM, you've got to get production out of your rookies and second year guys. Baalke is too patient and takes too many guys, like McDonald, that aren't ready to contribute right away.

Um, what? McDonald was central to the power blocking scheme HaRoman ran here. So much they never used him in the passing game...ever. That is a philosophical personnel choice. It wasn't until game 9 of last year (WCO under Geep) that Gabbert even started targeting him. Blame Baalke? Blame HaRoman...it's the coaches choice for how they use their own players. ORRRRR, don't blame anyone b/c HaRoman got out of him what they wanted and needed for their system. The new coaches are now using him differently and naturally, it's more visible to fans (it's not like fans are spotlighting a TE in a power blocking scheme --- LOL).

Fair point. But why draft a TE in the second round to be a blocker? Blame HaRoman? Blame the GM HC disconnect.

Originally posted by Lifer:

Fair point. But why draft a TE in the second round to be a blocker? Blame HaRoman? Blame the GM HC disconnect.

Because they saw the upside and measurables of someone that could be a pass catching TE AND someone that could be a damn good blocker...facts are he's not getting on the field if he couldn't block with HaRoman calling the shots so that's what he had to do.

I don't think they planned on VD turning into a total vag his last couple seasons with us either lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Vance is putting up back up TE numbers as a starting TE and $5.5 mil is for a lot of promise. Should have just kept Delanie

He's actually not putting up backup numbers if you look at current contracts of TEs and look at their targets compared to his (and what he does with those targets).

His doing better than Thomas, clay, Pitta, ertz etc all who have signed $30+ million dollar contracts.

20th in total yards
2nd in avg yards per catch behind Gronk (over 20 receptions)
3rd in TD's
30th rank pass offense

I personally think he is doing well considering the surroundings.

Yup he's far from the reason we are playing poorly on offense...he's improved every yr he's been here. I think he needs to be resigned ASAP before he hits the open market because teams are always looking for TEs in FA, he will get over paid based on other contracts.

I agree he is improving and hasn't hit his ceiling. And I also agree that right now is prime time to negotiate an extension.

But his stats are highly skewed due to 2 plays (huge plays and he deserves credit) . Almost half his yardage on the year were from those plays.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Vance is putting up back up TE numbers as a starting TE and $5.5 mil is for a lot of promise. Should have just kept Delanie

He's actually not putting up backup numbers if you look at current contracts of TEs and look at their targets compared to his (and what he does with those targets).

His doing better than Thomas, clay, Pitta, ertz etc all who have signed $30+ million dollar contracts.

20th in total yards
2nd in avg yards per catch behind Gronk (over 20 receptions)
3rd in TD's
30th rank pass offense

I personally think he is doing well considering the surroundings.

Yup he's far from the reason we are playing poorly on offense...he's improved every yr he's been here. I think he needs to be resigned ASAP before he hits the open market because teams are always looking for TEs in FA, he will get over paid based on other contracts.

I agree he is improving and hasn't hit his ceiling. And I also agree that right now is prime time to negotiate an extension.

But his stats are highly skewed due to 2 plays (huge plays and he deserves credit) . Almost half his yardage on the year were from those plays.

You post like those huge plays are a bad thing, those are homerun plays and it's the type of plays Vance can bring/give you. in short, he's a weapon.

Extend the guy

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by father49er:

Yeah. If Vance is so great why isn't he targeted more? He's had 3 seasons to prove his value. I think a lot has to do with his abilities. But my speculation isn't any better than yours. We only have data at hand which doesn't show him to be a top tier or even a starting caliber TE.

Well for starters VD was the starter and he had to learn how to block if he was to get on the field under harbs. 2014 he was injuried half the season and still behind a good TE. Not until half way thru last yr did he get a OPPORTUNITY (key word there ).

Guess what he is starting to get targeted more (as the season goes) and is producing weird how that works lol.

Why not be happy that a player we drafted and developed is actually starting to play better and finally getting a chance no one is saying he's Gronk or should get paid like that, but he's far from the reason we are playing poorly...better qb play makes skilled positons like TE/WR play better.

I have zero problem giving him a fair contract and have no idea why you do?

Don't have a problem extending him base on his production, and never said he is a key reason for state of offense. I just think he's a borderline starter.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by father49er:

Try the same comparison with Julio Jones and Ted Ginn Jr.

How about you put Vance in a Washington offense that untilizes its TEs. he would have better numbers plain and simple. What's your excuse for him avg 17.4 per catch? When he gets the ball he does things and if you think he's not getting open on the regular then you're not watching the game.

Modkins stated the reason he's not always targeted more is based on who's playing safety and what their scheme is...I'll bet money if we got improved play from our WRs you'd see a even higher boost in Vance's play...you lining a LB one on one with him or a safety lol? Good luck with that.

I watch every 9er game for the past 30 years. Vance occasionally gets open and does great things. Ted Ginn Jr occasionally gets open and does great things. Neither Ted or Vance consistently get open or are targeted as many times as Julio or Reed respectively. As for speculation, you might be right that Vance maybe awesome in Washington's offense. If true, he should be playing in Washington, why hold him back?

Originally posted by father49er:

Don't have a problem extending him base on his production, and never said he is a key reason for state of offense. I just think he's a borderline starter.

Then pay him as a borderline starter...I think he's on his way to being a top 15 TE in the league go around and look at other teams starters and you will agree.

Originally posted by father49er:

I watch every 9er game for the past 30 years. Vance occasionally gets open and does great things. Ted Ginn Jr occasionally gets open and does great things. Neither Ted or Vance consistently get open or are targeted as many times as Julio or Reed respectively. As for speculation, you might be right that Vance maybe awesome in Washington's offense. If true, he should be playing in Washington, why hold him back?

There ya go bringing up ted ginn again like that has anything to do with Vance Vance actually does get open on the regular and film shows it.

What kind of thinking is that? "You know what he might be real good in Washington so let's him go" lol

System, scheme, and qb play a part in EVERY skilled position. Since he became the starter and in chip's offense he's improved and there's no debating it!

You bring up Julio like that's some fair comparison lol...Kyle shanny also peppers his top WR in all of the offenses he's ran.

There is no reason he can't be at the very least on the same level as Dwayne Allen type of TE

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by father49er:

I watch every 9er game for the past 30 years. Vance occasionally gets open and does great things. Ted Ginn Jr occasionally gets open and does great things. Neither Ted or Vance consistently get open or are targeted as many times as Julio or Reed respectively. As for speculation, you might be right that Vance maybe awesome in Washington's offense. If true, he should be playing in Washington, why hold him back?

There ya go bringing up ted ginn again like that has anything to do with Vance Vance actually does get open on the regular and film shows it.

What kind of thinking is that? "You know what he might be real good in Washington so let's him go" lol

System, scheme, and qb play a part in EVERY skilled position. Since he became the starter and in chip's offense he's improved and there's no debating it!

You bring up Julio like that's some fair comparison lol...Kyle shanny also peppers his top WR in all of the offenses he's ran.

There is no reason he can't be at the very least on the same level as Dwayne Allen type of TE

I won't argue with your opinions.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Vance is putting up back up TE numbers as a starting TE and $5.5 mil is for a lot of promise. Should have just kept Delanie

He's actually not putting up backup numbers if you look at current contracts of TEs and look at their targets compared to his (and what he does with those targets).

His doing better than Thomas, clay, Pitta, ertz etc all who have signed $30+ million dollar contracts.

20th in total yards
2nd in avg yards per catch behind Gronk (over 20 receptions)
3rd in TD's
30th rank pass offense

I personally think he is doing well considering the surroundings.

Yup he's far from the reason we are playing poorly on offense...he's improved every yr he's been here. I think he needs to be resigned ASAP before he hits the open market because teams are always looking for TEs in FA, he will get over paid based on other contracts.

I agree he is improving and hasn't hit his ceiling. And I also agree that right now is prime time to negotiate an extension.

But his stats are highly skewed due to 2 plays (huge plays and he deserves credit) . Almost half his yardage on the year were from those plays.

You post like those huge plays are a bad thing, those are homerun plays and it's the type of plays Vance can bring/give you. in short, he's a weapon.

Extend the guy

Not sure if you understand word skew

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Not sure if you understand word skew

you're taking away two plays that he created himself with YAC and make it sound like it's a bad thing? Should we do that for every WR and TE as well?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Not sure if you understand word skew

you're taking away two plays that he created himself with YAC and make it sound like it's a bad thing? Should we do that for every WR and TE as well?

when their pool of info is only 22 catches, yes

Never seen a fan base try so hard to discredit their own young players. Remarkable. Even with evidence to the contrary. The sad thing is nobody is trying to make the case he's currently the #1 TE in the game right now...just pitching to resign him because he's showing incremental growth with more utilization in a new system that targets a TE more in the passing game vs. run game. What is wrong with our fans?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Never seen a fan base try so hard to discredit their own young players. Remarkable. Even with evidence to the contrary. The sad thing is nobody is trying to make the case he's currently the #1 TE in the game right now...just pitching to resign him because he's showing incremental growth with more utilization in a new system that targets a TE more in the passing game vs. run game. What is wrong with our fans?

dont be such a drama queen

we were discussing how much to resign him , not if we should resign him