Vance "Beastmode" McDonald Thread

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

I'm saying it's stupid to force feed a guy with a 30% drop rate in his career.

It's also been established that Walker's drops were a one year thing, and that was also the same year he was most involved in the offense.

It may have been a hand injury issue with walker, as he put his body and hands in position to make catches. Vance's hands hardly line up with the football on his drops.

Drops are bad, and will kill drives. If he kills drives, he doesn't need to be on the field. That's it. You can't keep giving a guy more and more reps because he drops the ball, thats's just not smart.

If he wants to drop 30% of his passes for the first seven years of his career, then he can play his magical 8th year when he doesn't drop passes anymore.

Darrel 'stone hands' Jackson dropped a bunch of passes, then when he got more involved and was featured, he dropped even more passes.

Jimmy graham, aaron Hernandez, gronk all had similar drop rates as Vance in 2012 crazy they got better....totally disagree with his hands don't lineup and we've already had that discussion. IMO He takes his eye off the ball and already try's moving downfield before securing the catch trying to make a play because he rarely gets a chance too. We will see what happens this season I will exspect him to improve off of last year as long as he stays healthy.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Jimmy graham, aaron Hernandez, gronk all had similar drop rates as Vance in 2012 crazy they got better....totally disagree with his hands don't lineup and we've already had that discussion. IMO He takes his eye off the ball and already try's moving downfield before securing the catch trying to make a play because he rarely gets a chance too. We will see what happens this season I will exspect him to improve off of last year as long as he stays healthy.

Their drop rate was about half of McDonald's.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/signature-stats-drop-rate-tight-ends/

I expect him to drop a bunch of passes like a pop warner kid. Pop the ball into the air like a circus juggler, and drop more passes. It's about the only thing he's done consistently throughout his career.

Originally posted by JeromeBettis36:

Superman and Batman? Get new friends Vance. Thor doesn't hang with that DC garbage.

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Jimmy graham, aaron Hernandez, gronk all had similar drop rates as Vance in 2012 crazy they got better....totally disagree with his hands don't lineup and we've already had that discussion. IMO He takes his eye off the ball and already try's moving downfield before securing the catch trying to make a play because he rarely gets a chance too. We will see what happens this season I will exspect him to improve off of last year as long as he stays healthy.

Their drop rate was about half of McDonald's.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/signature-stats-drop-rate-tight-ends/

I expect him to drop a bunch of passes like a pop warner kid. Pop the ball into the air like a circus juggler, and drop more passes. It's about the only thing he's done consistently throughout his career.

Wrong. Vance had a 13% drop rate last year, lower than both Hernandez and Graham, but slightly higher than Gronk (in 2012).

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

Their drop rate was about half of McDonald's.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/signature-stats-drop-rate-tight-ends/

I expect him to drop a bunch of passes like a pop warner kid. Pop the ball into the air like a circus juggler, and drop more passes. It's about the only thing he's done consistently throughout his career.

How are you getting half? Last I saw he had 13% drop rate which is awful but not half walker had a 30% drop rate not Vance.

Well your wrong about the only thing he's be consistent with..dude turned into a damn good blocking TE the catching will come with more confidence much like sports in general.

Originally posted by Pinion:

Wrong. Vance had a 13% drop rate last year, lower than both Hernandez and Graham, but slightly higher than Gronk (in 2012).

You gotta link from PFF, I couldn't find one.

Or if you have another site with drop rates from 2012 and 2015, that would work too.

The drop rate used was from catchable passes, not targets.

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

Originally posted by Pinion:
Wrong. Vance had a 13% drop rate last year, lower than both Hernandez and Graham, but slightly higher than Gronk (in 2012).

You gotta link from PFF, I couldn't find one.

Or if you have another site with drop rates from 2012 and 2015, that would work too.

The drop rate used was from catchable passes, not targets.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2015/

Based off the data on this site, McDonald's drop rate was higher than the aforementioned in 2012, but not by a significant amount. Point being, other guys had dropsies earlier in their careers and improved. The hope is that Vance can too.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
PPF rankings

Overall TE

Mcdonald #44
Celek #19

Run blocking TE
Mcdonald #52
Celek #38

Pass blocking
Mcdonald #10
Celek #2

McDonald isnt even the best blocking TE on our team

Lmao

Been saying that. Celek > McDonald

I posted this awhile back when people were spouting off that he was the "best blocking TE in the league" and it went largely ignored. Shocking.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

How are you getting half? Last I saw he had 13% drop rate which is awful but not half walker had a 30% drop rate not Vance.

Well your wrong about the only thing he's be consistent with..dude turned into a damn good blocking TE the catching will come with more confidence much like sports in general.

That is true for his NFL career, but his blocking in college was inconsistent. The drops were.

If the coaches watch him drop passes all week in pratice, why would they respond with giving him MORE targets? It might be good for Vance, but bad for the other 52 guys trying to win a football game.

It would be like saying 'the rookie 6th rounder throws a lot of Int's in pratice, we should start him so he'll learn to not throw Int's.

Rewarding negative plays with positive things is bad for the team.

Originally posted by Pinion:

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

Originally posted by Pinion:

Wrong. Vance had a 13% drop rate last year, lower than both Hernandez and Graham, but slightly higher than Gronk (in 2012).

You gotta link from PFF, I couldn't find one.

Or if you have another site with drop rates from 2012 and 2015, that would work too.

The drop rate used was from catchable passes, not targets.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2015/

Based off the data on this site, McDonald's drop rate was higher than the aforementioned in 2012, but not by a significant amount. Point being, other guys had dropsies earlier in their careers and improved. The hope is that Vance can too.

These are two different stats. One is a drop rate based on targets (2015), the other is a drop rate based on catchable passes.

I could convert the stats pretty easily from the other PFF site though.

My grandpa had a saying. You can hope in one hand, and poop in the other, then see which one fills up faster.

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
How are you getting half? Last I saw he had 13% drop rate which is awful but not half walker had a 30% drop rate not Vance.

Well your wrong about the only thing he's be consistent with..dude turned into a damn good blocking TE the catching will come with more confidence much like sports in general.

That is true for his NFL career, but his blocking in college was inconsistent. The drops were.

If the coaches watch him drop passes all week in pratice, why would they respond with giving him MORE targets? It might be good for Vance, but bad for the other 52 guys trying to win a football game.

It would be like saying 'the rookie 6th rounder throws a lot of Int's in pratice, we should start him so he'll learn to not throw Int's.

Rewarding negative plays with positive things is bad for the team.

We kept giving Delanie PT despite all of his drops. Why? Well because he was a dangerous player with the ball in his hands. Vance can too be a play-maker based off his physicality. You give guys like him a shot to iron out their flaws, because the team is ultimately better with a confident play-maker than an average player. And if it doesn't work out, know when to move on.

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

Originally posted by Pinion:

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

Originally posted by Pinion:
Wrong. Vance had a 13% drop rate last year, lower than both Hernandez and Graham, but slightly higher than Gronk (in 2012).

You gotta link from PFF, I couldn't find one.

Or if you have another site with drop rates from 2012 and 2015, that would work too.

The drop rate used was from catchable passes, not targets.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2015/

Based off the data on this site, McDonald's drop rate was higher than the aforementioned in 2012, but not by a significant amount. Point being, other guys had dropsies earlier in their careers and improved. The hope is that Vance can too.

These are two different stats. One is a drop rate based on targets (2015), the other is a drop rate based on targets.

I could convert the stats pretty easily from the other PFF site though.

I edited my post to only use the data from sportingcharts. The drop rates were similar. Definitely not half.

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

That is true for his NFL career, but his blocking in college was inconsistent. The drops were.

If the coaches watch him drop passes all week in pratice, why would they respond with giving him MORE targets? It might be good for Vance, but bad for the other 52 guys trying to win a football game.

It would be like saying 'the rookie 6th rounder throws a lot of Int's in pratice, we should start him so he'll learn to not throw Int's.

Rewarding negative plays with positive things is bad for the team.

The only person reporting that he's dropping passes is grant who is so full of it that's his "opinion" doesn't mean much to me...I haven't read anything from any of the other beat reports about dropping passes, so it's not really much of a issue currently. Also I've seen reports (watched clips) of him making catches in practice as well.

Last season was his real first chance he had in the passing game with VD gone and a different QB who doesn't eye f**k one target the whole game every game.

Like I said 13% drop rate right on par with jimmy graham gronk and Hernandez but guess what they have/had QBs that throw them the ball. Vance is a miss match waiting to happen just needs his chances, sure he's gonna drop balls every once in a while jimmy graham does it on the regular every year.

But there is no reason in hell chip can't call plays like this with Vance...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000615025/Vance-McDonald-gets-24-yard-catch-and-run

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Last season was his real first chance he had in the passing game with VD gone and a different QB who doesn't eye f**k one target the whole game every game.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erguy49:

That is true for his NFL career, but his blocking in college was inconsistent. The drops were.

If the coaches watch him drop passes all week in pratice, why would they respond with giving him MORE targets? It might be good for Vance, but bad for the other 52 guys trying to win a football game.

It would be like saying 'the rookie 6th rounder throws a lot of Int's in pratice, we should start him so he'll learn to not throw Int's.

Rewarding negative plays with positive things is bad for the team.

The only person reporting that he's dropping passes is grant who is so full of it that's his "opinion" doesn't mean much to me...I haven't read anything from any of the other beat reports about dropping passes, so it's not really much of a issue currently. Also I've seen reports (watched clips) of him making catches in practice as well.

Last season was his real first chance he had in the passing game with VD gone and a different QB who doesn't eye f**k one target the whole game every game.

Like I said 13% drop rate right on par with jimmy graham gronk and Hernandez but guess what they have/had QBs that throw them the ball. Vance is a miss match waiting to happen just needs his chances, sure he's gonna drop balls every once in a while jimmy graham does it on the regular every year.

But there is no reason in hell chip can't call plays like this with Vance...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000615025/Vance-McDonald-gets-24-yard-catch-and-run

If he is great at everything, why wouldn't the team feature him? It must be something they see in pratice. Probably dropped passes.

Drops are slightly subjective, but to call an observation of a guy dropping passes 'an opinion' is disingenuous.

If these more talented players saw significant targets and still had high drop rates, how does that support the case McD will not have problems with his hands going forward?