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Vance "Beastmode" McDonald Thread
Mar 11, 2016 at 7:21 PM
- dickonmyforehead
- Veteran
- Posts: 20
He sucks!
Mar 11, 2016 at 8:30 PM
- DonnieDarko
- Veteran
- Posts: 62,491
worst TE ever
Mar 12, 2016 at 5:00 AM
- Sims19849ers
- Veteran
- Posts: 5,419
Originally posted by blizzuntz:Originally posted by Sims19849ers:Will be talking extension halfway through the season. He will get 700+ yards this year. Book it
I think he gets an extension regardless of performance, next year could be another year of no FA incoming talent
no one wants to come here it seems
Nobody wants to be a part of year 1 in a rebuild, especially if we aren't out bidding the high spenders. Next year will be different
May 14, 2016 at 8:07 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,319
Sakamoto bringing it for context for why Baalke drafted McDonald for Harbaugh's offense.
Sakamoto: 49ers Chip Kelly Offense Requires Versatile Tight Ends
By Ryan Sakamoto May. 13, 2016, 4:24 pm
49ers.com
No college skill position is harder to project at the NFL level than tight end. Why? Because the position is heavily dependent on scheme. Sure, the same could be said of almost every position on the field, but the tight end position is more scheme specific, especially when it comes to a smash-mouth team as opposed to a pass-first team.
Case in point. Take a look at San Francisco 49ers TE Vance McDonald.
When the 49ers drafted him in the second-round (No. 55) of the 2013 NFL Draft, the 49ers mainly operated out of a man-gap blocking scheme. A power based run offense primarily using 21, 12, and 22 personnel, the 49ers heavily favored bigger tight ends, who had the potential to inline block, as opposed to the sexier pass catcher.
"I just know that I'm extremely under-developed [inline blocking] in that regard, and I know I have a lot of potential [31 reps on bench press]. I think I have the right size [6-4, 267] and frame [34-plus inch arms] in order to handle that responsibility. But I'm ready to take the challenge," McDonald told beat writers shortly after being drafted.
Some of you may be asking, what do the numbers 21, 12, and 22 mean? Good question. The first digit of the number indicates the number of running backs on the field while the second-digit represents the number of tight ends.
The 49ers who used run-heavy formations required numerous tight end sets. Whether delivering a down block on a blitzing linebacker or setting the edge outside the tackle box (C-Gap), the tight end position was one of the most valued under then 49ers HC Jim Harbaugh's power O system.
How valued? Well considering the team lost it's swiss army knife, TE Delanie Walker to the Tennessee Titans, the 49ers quickly focused on the draft to fill his void. Depth at the position was so important from a personnel standpoint, the team traded up six spots with the Green Bay Packers to secure McDonald's services.
But this is a different era, different team, and different coaching staff than 2013. The schematics are different which in turn has a domino effect on the organization as a whole. Under new 49ers HC Chip Kelly's offense, the Y receiver (tight end) is required to be more of a receiving threat.
Could that be a big reason why Kelly and the Philadelphia Eagles drafted TE Zach Ertz over McDonald? Probably. Let's be honest. Kelly is a big reason why Ertz was paid a king's ransom this off-season. A five-year deal worth up to $42 million, Ertz wasn't given that type of bread because of his elite blocking skills.
"I owe a lot of my success, and a lot of my future success, to Coach Kelly," Ertz said. And I couldn't agree more. In Ertz's first three seasons under Kelly he racked up 169 catches for 2,024 yards and 9 touchdowns.
Now that we figured out Kelly's basic schematics from a tight end perspective, the question remains, which 49ers tight end will start in 2016?
Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com already projected that player to be McDonald, but I wouldn't hand the keys over just yet.
McDonald has demonstrated numerous times that his ball skills are marginal. Just look back to last year's game against the Cincinnati Bengals. That type of stuff will drive Kelly mad. However, while I do agree McDonald has the inside track due to his versatility, I would not count out second-year TE Blake Bell.
At 6-6, 252, the "Bell-Dozer" will be out for blood in 2016. He's raw but the potential is there. He has the hands and the versatility that Kelly covets in his offensive scheme. The drawback is that his route-running needs work. He takes false steps while his inability to sink his hips, will have defensive backs under-cutting routes. If Bell is much improved in this area, look for him to have a fighting chance.
Kelly is an offensive genius. His forward thinking and innovative approach to the game is unquestioned. But with the 49ers tight end position up for grabs, who will win the Y receiver role? That answer depends on who is the most versatile and fundamentally sound. From lining up in the slot, H-Back, to trips-formation, who ever does this best will ultimately be handed the keys.
Who will that player be? Time will tell as the camp battle is on!
http://ninerfans.com/sakamoto-49ers-chip-kelly-offense-requires-versatile-tight-ends/
Sakamoto: 49ers Chip Kelly Offense Requires Versatile Tight Ends
By Ryan Sakamoto May. 13, 2016, 4:24 pm
49ers.com
No college skill position is harder to project at the NFL level than tight end. Why? Because the position is heavily dependent on scheme. Sure, the same could be said of almost every position on the field, but the tight end position is more scheme specific, especially when it comes to a smash-mouth team as opposed to a pass-first team.
Case in point. Take a look at San Francisco 49ers TE Vance McDonald.
When the 49ers drafted him in the second-round (No. 55) of the 2013 NFL Draft, the 49ers mainly operated out of a man-gap blocking scheme. A power based run offense primarily using 21, 12, and 22 personnel, the 49ers heavily favored bigger tight ends, who had the potential to inline block, as opposed to the sexier pass catcher.
"I just know that I'm extremely under-developed [inline blocking] in that regard, and I know I have a lot of potential [31 reps on bench press]. I think I have the right size [6-4, 267] and frame [34-plus inch arms] in order to handle that responsibility. But I'm ready to take the challenge," McDonald told beat writers shortly after being drafted.
Some of you may be asking, what do the numbers 21, 12, and 22 mean? Good question. The first digit of the number indicates the number of running backs on the field while the second-digit represents the number of tight ends.
The 49ers who used run-heavy formations required numerous tight end sets. Whether delivering a down block on a blitzing linebacker or setting the edge outside the tackle box (C-Gap), the tight end position was one of the most valued under then 49ers HC Jim Harbaugh's power O system.
How valued? Well considering the team lost it's swiss army knife, TE Delanie Walker to the Tennessee Titans, the 49ers quickly focused on the draft to fill his void. Depth at the position was so important from a personnel standpoint, the team traded up six spots with the Green Bay Packers to secure McDonald's services.
But this is a different era, different team, and different coaching staff than 2013. The schematics are different which in turn has a domino effect on the organization as a whole. Under new 49ers HC Chip Kelly's offense, the Y receiver (tight end) is required to be more of a receiving threat.
Could that be a big reason why Kelly and the Philadelphia Eagles drafted TE Zach Ertz over McDonald? Probably. Let's be honest. Kelly is a big reason why Ertz was paid a king's ransom this off-season. A five-year deal worth up to $42 million, Ertz wasn't given that type of bread because of his elite blocking skills.
"I owe a lot of my success, and a lot of my future success, to Coach Kelly," Ertz said. And I couldn't agree more. In Ertz's first three seasons under Kelly he racked up 169 catches for 2,024 yards and 9 touchdowns.
Now that we figured out Kelly's basic schematics from a tight end perspective, the question remains, which 49ers tight end will start in 2016?
Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com already projected that player to be McDonald, but I wouldn't hand the keys over just yet.
McDonald has demonstrated numerous times that his ball skills are marginal. Just look back to last year's game against the Cincinnati Bengals. That type of stuff will drive Kelly mad. However, while I do agree McDonald has the inside track due to his versatility, I would not count out second-year TE Blake Bell.
At 6-6, 252, the "Bell-Dozer" will be out for blood in 2016. He's raw but the potential is there. He has the hands and the versatility that Kelly covets in his offensive scheme. The drawback is that his route-running needs work. He takes false steps while his inability to sink his hips, will have defensive backs under-cutting routes. If Bell is much improved in this area, look for him to have a fighting chance.
Kelly is an offensive genius. His forward thinking and innovative approach to the game is unquestioned. But with the 49ers tight end position up for grabs, who will win the Y receiver role? That answer depends on who is the most versatile and fundamentally sound. From lining up in the slot, H-Back, to trips-formation, who ever does this best will ultimately be handed the keys.
Who will that player be? Time will tell as the camp battle is on!
http://ninerfans.com/sakamoto-49ers-chip-kelly-offense-requires-versatile-tight-ends/
[ Edited by NCommand on May 14, 2016 at 8:14 AM ]
May 14, 2016 at 8:45 AM
- Phoenix49ers
- Moderator
- Posts: 119,213
If McDonald becomes more consistent with his hands he could be a heck of a player. The size, athleticism, blocking and route running are already there. He can be a mismatch, too big for most defensive backs, too fast and technically proficient for most LBs.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
May 14, 2016 at 8:46 AM
- KyleShanahan
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,779
Obligatory 'we coulda had Kelce instead!' post..
May 14, 2016 at 9:02 AM
- Pinion
- Veteran
- Posts: 340
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:If McDonald becomes more consistent with his hands he could be a heck of a player. The size, athleticism, blocking and route running are already there. He can be a mismatch, too big for most defensive backs, too fast and technically proficient for most LBs.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
I remember how bad Delanie was at catching the ball for a couple years early in his career. And he's developed nicely. McD deserves some more patience, just like Delanie did.
May 14, 2016 at 9:09 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,319
Originally posted by Pinion:Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:If McDonald becomes more consistent with his hands he could be a heck of a player. The size, athleticism, blocking and route running are already there. He can be a mismatch, too big for most defensive backs, too fast and technically proficient for most LBs.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
I remember how bad Delanie was at catching the ball for a couple years early in his career. And he's developed nicely. McD deserves some more patience, just like Delanie did.
And VD too. Clearly, under the Harbaugh regime, the emphasis was on blocking more than catching. If a slot receiver in college can become an excellent blocker like McDonald, hopefully Kelly can reshift his focus back to pass catching again and become a massive mismatch for us adding more balance.
[ Edited by NCommand on May 14, 2016 at 9:11 AM ]
May 14, 2016 at 9:18 AM
- crabman82
- Veteran
- Posts: 16,991
Originally posted by Pinion:Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:If McDonald becomes more consistent with his hands he could be a heck of a player. The size, athleticism, blocking and route running are already there. He can be a mismatch, too big for most defensive backs, too fast and technically proficient for most LBs.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
I remember how bad Delanie was at catching the ball for a couple years early in his career. And he's developed nicely. McD deserves some more patience, just like Delanie did.
Except 1 guy was a 6th rounder and the other is a 2nd rounder who has had a pro bowl te drafted after him
May 14, 2016 at 9:23 AM
- Pinion
- Veteran
- Posts: 340
Originally posted by crabman82:Originally posted by Pinion:Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:If McDonald becomes more consistent with his hands he could be a heck of a player. The size, athleticism, blocking and route running are already there. He can be a mismatch, too big for most defensive backs, too fast and technically proficient for most LBs.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
I remember how bad Delanie was at catching the ball for a couple years early in his career. And he's developed nicely. McD deserves some more patience, just like Delanie did.
Except 1 guy was a 6th rounder and the other is a 2nd rounder who has had a pro bowl te drafted after him
So?
Vernon was written off by most fans until his fourth year and he was picked in the top ten. Some guys are just drafted into a s**tty situation and aren't developed well. And guess what? Most picks after the top 50 don't pan out. At least give the guy a chance to develop before casting him aside. He's shown improvement.
May 14, 2016 at 10:50 AM
- GoreGoreGore
- 10HourChicken
- Posts: 54,072
Originally posted by Pinion:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Pinion:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
If McDonald becomes more consistent with his hands he could be a heck of a player. The size, athleticism, blocking and route running are already there. He can be a mismatch, too big for most defensive backs, too fast and technically proficient for most LBs.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
I remember how bad Delanie was at catching the ball for a couple years early in his career. And he's developed nicely. McD deserves some more patience, just like Delanie did.
Except 1 guy was a 6th rounder and the other is a 2nd rounder who has had a pro bowl te drafted after him
So?
Vernon was written off by most fans until his fourth year and he was picked in the top ten. Some guys are just drafted into a s**tty situation and aren't developed well. And guess what? Most picks after the top 50 don't pan out. At least give the guy a chance to develop before casting him aside. He's shown improvement.
Last year for him to prove it though. Can he become a good TE? Sure. Will he? We'll find out this season.
May 14, 2016 at 11:08 AM
- DonnieDarko
- Veteran
- Posts: 62,491
Originally posted by ChipKelly:
Obligatory 'we coulda had Kelce instead!' post..
but iz true doe
May 14, 2016 at 11:13 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
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Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:Last year for him to prove it though. Can he become a good TE? Sure. Will he? We'll find out this season.
He was very good for what Harbaugh and Roman wanted. But now, I get your point, can he be "good" for Kelly's offense which relies more on pass catching and balance.
My guess is that whatever they focus his attention on, he's going to get better and better. But that's on coaching, development, scheme and him.
May 14, 2016 at 11:19 AM
- Pinion
- Veteran
- Posts: 340
Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:
Originally posted by Pinion:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Pinion:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
If McDonald becomes more consistent with his hands he could be a heck of a player. The size, athleticism, blocking and route running are already there. He can be a mismatch, too big for most defensive backs, too fast and technically proficient for most LBs.
He's an oversized slot receiver that became a pretty good blocker along the way. He'll have his opportunities so I hope he has been hitting the Jugs machine hard.
I remember how bad Delanie was at catching the ball for a couple years early in his career. And he's developed nicely. McD deserves some more patience, just like Delanie did.
Except 1 guy was a 6th rounder and the other is a 2nd rounder who has had a pro bowl te drafted after him
So?
Vernon was written off by most fans until his fourth year and he was picked in the top ten. Some guys are just drafted into a s**tty situation and aren't developed well. And guess what? Most picks after the top 50 don't pan out. At least give the guy a chance to develop before casting him aside. He's shown improvement.
Last year for him to prove it though. Can he become a good TE? Sure. Will he? We'll find out this season.
He absolutely needs to show improvement this year. Even though it took Vern 4 years to break out, McDonald needs to show that he's on the right track this year.
May 14, 2016 at 12:22 PM
- TheFunkyChicken
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,206
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by ChipKelly:
Obligatory 'we coulda had Kelce instead!' post..
but iz true doe
I don't think it's unreasonable to complain about these squandered opportunities, espeically if at the time you felt the same way.
I was screaming for them to draft Keenan Allen in that spot. I was furious then. And I'm even more furious now that time has proved me right (and frankly, it didn't take very long).
You can say, "just give them time" all you want. But you have to accept that Vance, like many of our picks recently, was a poor draft choice. If you're going to spend that early of a draft pick on a TE (not a position that commands big draft capital) you should expect them to have an impact pretty soon. Maybe not year 1, but definitely year 2. To be going into the 4th and still be a question mark to even make the roster...... That's a very poor use of a second round pick no matter how you slice it.
If you want a 4 year project at TE you use a 6th or later.