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Vance "Big Mac" McDonald Thread

  • -AC-
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Originally posted by SofaKing:
True, but what has he had to develop? Kyle Williams, A.J. Jenkins, Marlon Moore, Ronald Johnson...???

Notice how none of those guys have done anything since leaving the 49ers either. They're scrubs. Can't develop trash.

Patton and Ellington seem legit though. If he can't develop those guys than I will hold him accountable.

If you look at what he had to work with at SC he was underwhelming there as well... Sure he had Woods develope nicely, but he had a ton of blue-chip recruits to work with, that just floundered under his watch... Even Rojo was an underachiever until his Senior season... Morton was unimpressive with top talent at SC and he hasn't done anything to impress in San Fran with lesser talent (no surprise there, really)...
  • -AC-
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Originally posted by CrimsonCrew:
He would in Morton's case. Morton is one of his closest friends, Harbaugh actually lived with Morton following his divorce from his first wife. I'm not at all impressed with Morton. Either our WRs can play or they can't, but he hasn't come close to developing one. No coach should survive a year that was as abject a failure at a position as the one our WRs suffered through last year. Almost every other team has gotten recent production from late-round picks or UDFAs. We got absolutely nothing last year.

This...
Originally posted by CrimsonCrew:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I think they're good coaches. Harbaugh wouldn't tolerate sub-par coaching on his staff.

Mangini is well respected around the league and has experience coaching both sides of the ball.

Morton is a decent coach. The WRs who failed here failed because they sucked. The WR coach can only do so much.

He would in Morton's case. Morton is one of his closest friends, Harbaugh actually lived with Morton following his divorce from his first wife. I'm not at all impressed with Morton. Either our WRs can play or they can't, but he hasn't come close to developing one. No coach should survive a year that was as abject a failure at a position as the one our WRs suffered through last year. Almost every other team has gotten recent production from late-round picks or UDFAs. We got absolutely nothing last year.

I agree with this. For now, I'll say Morton is an unknown - many people want to give him the benefit of the doubt because our WRs "suck". But I wouldn't say he's good either just because he's associated with Harbs or whatever the case. Production and development from our non veteran/proven WRs don't back that up. Plenty of teams get by and get at least something from their late round draft picks. Can't say the same about Morton. So for now, he is a ?, an unknown. He might get his chance with Patton and Ellington. I think those two can be players in this league. We'll see.
Originally posted by -AC-:
Originally posted by CrimsonCrew:
He would in Morton's case. Morton is one of his closest friends, Harbaugh actually lived with Morton following his divorce from his first wife. I'm not at all impressed with Morton. Either our WRs can play or they can't, but he hasn't come close to developing one. No coach should survive a year that was as abject a failure at a position as the one our WRs suffered through last year. Almost every other team has gotten recent production from late-round picks or UDFAs. We got absolutely nothing last year.

This...

crimson said it!!! morton is a horrible coach
Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Originally posted by -AC-:
Originally posted by CrimsonCrew:
He would in Morton's case. Morton is one of his closest friends, Harbaugh actually lived with Morton following his divorce from his first wife. I'm not at all impressed with Morton. Either our WRs can play or they can't, but he hasn't come close to developing one. No coach should survive a year that was as abject a failure at a position as the one our WRs suffered through last year. Almost every other team has gotten recent production from late-round picks or UDFAs. We got absolutely nothing last year.

This...

crimson said it!!! morton is a horrible coach

In the game day film threads, I saw plenty of receivers running free. They never got looked at or thrown to. I am not defending Morton, I don't know him from Adam. But I know what I saw on that film, and it didn't seem like a receiver problem.
Originally posted by CrimsonCrew:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I think they're good coaches. Harbaugh wouldn't tolerate sub-par coaching on his staff.

Mangini is well respected around the league and has experience coaching both sides of the ball.

Morton is a decent coach. The WRs who failed here failed because they sucked. The WR coach can only do so much.

He would in Morton's case. Morton is one of his closest friends, Harbaugh actually lived with Morton following his divorce from his first wife. I'm not at all impressed with Morton. Either our WRs can play or they can't, but he hasn't come close to developing one. No coach should survive a year that was as abject a failure at a position as the one our WRs suffered through last year. Almost every other team has gotten recent production from late-round picks or UDFAs. We got absolutely nothing last year.

Link? I tried google but couldn't find this info about coach and morton.

Why would Harbaugh stay there instead of with his parents or john harbaugh? Or get his own temp apt.?


Edit: i found a link

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/05/30/4524539/49ers-wide-receivers-coach-morton.html#mi_rss=49ers
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Aug 6, 2014 at 9:45 PM ]
Originally posted by Bluesbro:
In the game day film threads, I saw plenty of receivers running free. They never got looked at or thrown to. I am not defending Morton, I don't know him from Adam. But I know what I saw on that film, and it didn't seem like a receiver problem.

I agree. People can blame Morton all they want, but the game film doesn't lie. It's pretty obvious this offense was designed to focus heavily on 2, maybe 3, primary pass catchers. Everyone else is an after-thought. Hopefully that changes now that we have real WR depth. Reports seem to indicate we're going to spread the field and play a faster tempo this year.

Not defending KW or Jenkins, because they were clearly crap. I wouldn't sub-out Miller or McDonald for those scrubs either. Players create their own opportunities. If they're good, they will play and produce. Blaming the WR coach is lame.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Aug 6, 2014 at 9:56 PM ]
  • Phil
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Originally posted by Bluesbro:
Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Originally posted by -AC-:
Originally posted by CrimsonCrew:
He would in Morton's case. Morton is one of his closest friends, Harbaugh actually lived with Morton following his divorce from his first wife. I'm not at all impressed with Morton. Either our WRs can play or they can't, but he hasn't come close to developing one. No coach should survive a year that was as abject a failure at a position as the one our WRs suffered through last year. Almost every other team has gotten recent production from late-round picks or UDFAs. We got absolutely nothing last year.

This...

crimson said it!!! morton is a horrible coach

In the game day film threads, I saw plenty of receivers running free. They never got looked at or thrown to. I am not defending Morton, I don't know him from Adam. But I know what I saw on that film, and it didn't seem like a receiver problem.

Baldwin, Williams and Moore are no good but I also worry about Kaps field vision. He didn't seem to go through progressions on any sort of consistent basis. My take is this- Kaps run threat depends on him not sticking around in the pocket. He looks one, maybe two guys over and takes off if nothing is there. Sometimes he'd force it into his first read, into tight coverage (Boldin). Early last season we tried to reign in Kaps run and turn him into more of a pocket passer and he simply wasn't prepared for it. Played his entire football career as running QB. My main worry this season (on offense) is if Kap can take advantage of 2, 3 even 4 very good WR's on the field at the same time. He hasn't shown that he can sit in the pocket and pick secondaries apart. Our O line didn't do that great in pass protection last season either but, point blank, Kaps game needs to progress. People don't like hearing this but oh well.

I dont see how he's going to be a run threat while also taking the time to go through progressions (time meaning about 2 seconds but this time matters). I think Kap needs to unlearn his college years style of play and sit in the pocket longer, really take those extra couple seconds to look the field over. Stop making the decision to throw to his comfort zone or first read. If that means he takes a couple few sacks so be it. Not on every play but some plays need to be designed where he either throws or takes the sack. Running not even being an option unless it's just an obvious hole with nothing but daylight on the other side as/if the play breaks down. Try to be more of a Steve Young run threat rather than Micheal Vick run threat. Sit in the pocket for a couple seconds without running on your mind, look over the 4 very good WR's we have. With Johnson's style of play that's what's necessary as well. He improvises routes and he' not always going to be on target X at the right time.

This is part of the reason we brought Whitfield in but Kap should have been working with him in the offseason. It seems like he, and a lot of us, are in denial when it comes to his shortcomings. This season will be the season for him to advance. if he struggles like he did most of last season we're going to have some uncomfortable realities to face because with out current WR core there's no reason our passing game shouldn't drastically improve. If it doesnt improve this season, at the least, I'd like to see Roman gone. I still think Kap should have worked with Whitfield in the offseason. Daily. From what I've been reading Whitfield hasnt even been very active with Kap. More so with the other 3 QB's. I'll probably get bashed for this post but oh well.
[ Edited by Phil on Aug 6, 2014 at 10:29 PM ]
Originally posted by Phil:
Baldwin, Williams and Moore are no good but I also worry about Kaps field vision. He didn't seem to go through progressions on any sort of consistent basis. My take is this- Kaps run threat depends on him not sticking around in the pocket. He looks one, maybe two guys over and takes off if nothing is there. Sometimes he'd force it into his first read, into tight coverage (Boldin). Early last season we tried to reign in Kaps run and turn him into more of a pocket passer and he simply wasn't prepared for it. Played his entire football career as running QB. My main worry this season (on offense) is if Kap can take advantage of 2, 3 even 4 very good WR's on the field at the same time. He hasn't shown that he can sit in the pocket and pick secondaries apart. Our O line didn't do that great in pass protection last season either but, point blank, Kaps game needs to progress. People don't like hearing this but oh well.

I dont see how he's going to be a run threat while also taking the time to go through progressions (time meaning about 2 seconds but this time matters). I think Kap needs to unlearn his college years style of play and sit in the pocket longer, really take those extra couple seconds to look the field over. Stop making the decision to throw to his comfort zone or first read. If that means he takes a couple few sacks so be it. Not on every play but some plays need to be designed where he either throws or takes the sack. Running not even being an option unless it's just an obvious hole with nothing but daylight on the other side as/if the play breaks down. Try to be more of a Steve Young run threat rather than Micheal Vick run threat. Sit in the pocket for a couple seconds without running on your mind, look over the 4 very good WR's we have. With Johnson's style of play that's what's necessary as well. He improvises routes and he' not always going to be on target X at the right time.

This is part of the reason we brought Whitfield in but Kap should have been working with him in the offseason. It seems like he, and a lot of us, are in denial when it comes to his shortcomings. This season will be the season for him to advance. if he struggles like he did most of last season we're going to have some uncomfortable realities to face because with out current WR core there's no reason our passing game shouldn't drastically improve. If it doesnt improve this season, at the least, I'd like to see Roman gone. I still think Kap should have worked with Whitfield in the offseason. Daily. From what I've been reading Whitfield hasnt even been very active with Kap. More so with the other 3 QB's. I'll probably get bashed for this post but oh well.

Last season was an extreme and had more to do with Roman than Kap. Our Offense had decoy routes in them, so Kap not looking at his 3rd or 4th progression, if he even had that on the field, was designed into the game plan, most of the time. Whether Kap could have or couldn't have gone through his progressions, was irrelevant a lot of the times because he was asked to read the defense pre snap and then hit his #1 Wr when the ball got snapped.

As far as running when his first read isn't there, he had less rushing yards and less rushing attempts than Wilson and Newton last season. So if he isn't throwing to his second/third read at all, isn't running as much as the other running Qbs, please explain what he was doing? So much hyperbole is made with Kap and his progressions, it's ridiculous.

Ohh and lets not act like he didn't throw for 10k yards in Nevada. Kap is a good soldier, I'm pretty certain last season had more to do with our initial WR problems and Roman adapting with a crappy game plan around that.
[ Edited by awp8912 on Aug 6, 2014 at 11:09 PM ]
  • Phil
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Originally posted by awp8912:
Originally posted by Phil:
Baldwin, Williams and Moore are no good but I also worry about Kaps field vision. He didn't seem to go through progressions on any sort of consistent basis. My take is this- Kaps run threat depends on him not sticking around in the pocket. He looks one, maybe two guys over and takes off if nothing is there. Sometimes he'd force it into his first read, into tight coverage (Boldin). Early last season we tried to reign in Kaps run and turn him into more of a pocket passer and he simply wasn't prepared for it. Played his entire football career as running QB. My main worry this season (on offense) is if Kap can take advantage of 2, 3 even 4 very good WR's on the field at the same time. He hasn't shown that he can sit in the pocket and pick secondaries apart. Our O line didn't do that great in pass protection last season either but, point blank, Kaps game needs to progress. People don't like hearing this but oh well.

I dont see how he's going to be a run threat while also taking the time to go through progressions (time meaning about 2 seconds but this time matters). I think Kap needs to unlearn his college years style of play and sit in the pocket longer, really take those extra couple seconds to look the field over. Stop making the decision to throw to his comfort zone or first read. If that means he takes a couple few sacks so be it. Not on every play but some plays need to be designed where he either throws or takes the sack. Running not even being an option unless it's just an obvious hole with nothing but daylight on the other side as/if the play breaks down. Try to be more of a Steve Young run threat rather than Micheal Vick run threat. Sit in the pocket for a couple seconds without running on your mind, look over the 4 very good WR's we have. With Johnson's style of play that's what's necessary as well. He improvises routes and he' not always going to be on target X at the right time.

This is part of the reason we brought Whitfield in but Kap should have been working with him in the offseason. It seems like he, and a lot of us, are in denial when it comes to his shortcomings. This season will be the season for him to advance. if he struggles like he did most of last season we're going to have some uncomfortable realities to face because with out current WR core there's no reason our passing game shouldn't drastically improve. If it doesnt improve this season, at the least, I'd like to see Roman gone. I still think Kap should have worked with Whitfield in the offseason. Daily. From what I've been reading Whitfield hasnt even been very active with Kap. More so with the other 3 QB's. I'll probably get bashed for this post but oh well.

Last season was an extreme and had more to do with Roman than Kap. Our Offense had decoy routes in them, so Kap not looking at his 3rd or 4th progression, if he even had that on the field, was designed into the game plan, most of the time. Whether Kap could have or couldn't have gone through his progressions, was irrelevant a lot of the times because he was asked to read the defense pre snap and then hit his #1 Wr when the ball got snapped.

As far as running when his first read isn't there, he had less rushing yards and less rushing attempts than Wilson and Newton last season. So if he isn't throwing to his second/third read at all, isn't running as much as the other running Qbs, please explain what he was doing? So much hyperbole is made with Kap and his progressions, it's ridiculous.

Ohh and lets not act like he didn't throw for 10k yards in Nevada. Kap is a good soldier, I'm pretty certain last season had more to do with our initial WR problems and Roman adapting with a crappy game plan around that.

Kap is a trusted agent (lol) he just needs to improve his game. It's undeniable what happened last season after the GB game. Why it happened is debatable I guess but our passing game sucked against Seattle, Indy, Houston, Ten, Jax, Carolina, and NO. It was bad all around and Kap looked like a deer in the headlights. Sure, yes, a large part of it was the crappy WR core BUT great QB's can do better than we did even with that crappy WR core. I'm not saying Kap cant pass I'm saying they tried to adjust his game away from his college style (read option) and it didn't work so well combined with the fact we didn't have the WR core to help develop Kaps game. There were many many plays when WR's were wide open and he didn't even look their way. This happened all the way up to the NFCCG.

There's work to be done with Kap and I'm not sure it's being done. Our offense will improve, I dont think there's any way our passing game will suffer this season as it did in the above mentioned 2013 games but I'm also not sure it will be as good, no, GREAT as it could be with the weapons we have. This is an allstar cast they've put together- Gore, Davis, Crabtree, Boldin, Johnson, Lloyd....most QB's in the league would kill to have that. I'm 75% sure Kap will improve his game noticeably as it already did improve when Crabtree returned last season but a lot needs to improve. His progressions, his completion percentage, his tendency to only target one WR in the redzone etc.

I 100% completely agree with Steve Young's friendly criticism. It's not crapping on Kap it's simply pointing out where he needs to improve and this is teh season to do it with the weapons we have BUT I dont think he put in the work in the offseason. From the interview and various articles I've read it's almost like he and the team are in a sort of denial- although they brought Whitfield in....yet from what I'm reading Whitfield isn't working with Kap much and didn't at all in the off season.
Originally posted by Phil:
Kap is a trusted agent (lol) he just needs to improve his game. It's undeniable what happened last season after the GB game. Why it happened is debatable I guess but our passing game sucked against Seattle, Indy, Houston, Ten, Jax, Carolina, and NO. It was bad all around and Kap looked like a deer in the headlights. Sure, yes, a large part of it was the crappy WR core BUT great QB's can do better than we did even with that crappy WR core. I'm not saying Kap cant pass I'm saying they tried to adjust his game away from his college style (read option) and it didn't work so well combined with the fact we didn't have the WR core to help develop Kaps game. There were many many plays when WR's were wide open and he didn't even look their way. This happened all the way up to the NFCCG.

There's work to be done with Kap and I'm not sure it's being done. Our offense will improve, I dont think there's any way our passing game will suffer this season as it did in the above mentioned 2013 games but I'm also not sure it will be as good, no, GREAT as it could be with the weapons we have. This is an allstar cast they've put together- Gore, Davis, Crabtree, Boldin, Johnson, Lloyd....most QB's in the league would kill to have that. I'm 75% sure Kap will improve his game noticeably as it already did improve when Crabtree returned last season but a lot needs to improve. His progressions, his completion percentage, his tendency to only target one WR in the redzone etc.

I 100% completely agree with Steve Young's friendly criticism. It's not crapping on Kap it's simply pointing out where he needs to improve and this is teh season to do it with the weapons we have BUT I dont think he put in the work in the offseason. From the interview and various articles I've read it's almost like he and the team are in a sort of denial- although they brought Whitfield in....yet from what I'm reading Whitfield isn't working with Kap much and didn't at all in the off season.

Overall, I agree with your assessment Phil. But how do we know Kap hasn't put in the work this off-season? Nobody really knows how many hours Kap (or any QB for that matter) puts into their mechanics or film room study. There is literally little to no visual evidence outside of training camp coverage. I think it's best not to speculate and just judge him by what's happening on the field.

Anyways..we should get back to discussing Vance McDonald.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Aug 7, 2014 at 12:59 AM ]
Originally posted by SofaKing:
True, but what has he had to develop? Kyle Williams, A.J. Jenkins, Marlon Moore, Ronald Johnson...???

Notice how none of those guys have done anything since leaving the 49ers either. They're scrubs. Can't develop trash.

Patton and Ellington seem legit though. If he can't develop those guys than I will hold him accountable.

Every NFC team other than Carolina saw some fairly significant contributions from a WR drafted in the 4th or later last year, and many saw UDFAs make an impact. In three full years, we haven't come close to developing a young WR. That's inexcusable, given how thin we've been at the position.

In terms of the guys who have left the team, Ronald Johnson was Morton's guy and he didn't even survive camp. Marlon Moore isn't great, but his worst year was this past one. One reception for four yards in six games with the Niners. There's no doubt AJ Jenkins has been better on KC than he was in SF, though the real test of that may come this next year. Williams has never played for another team as he got injured almost immediately with KC.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by Kronos2560:
I knew from the very start that he wasn't going to do well on this team. Not with Kaepernick as our QB.

Colin is definitely good enough, but his fastball is too much for people who don't have strong hands. That's why players like Walker and Jenkins had a hard time catching passes from Kaep. He throws too hard for them, and they can't grab the ball unless they use their bodies, which means nothing high is in their range.

Hopefully he's improved, but he doesn't have enough raw talent to overcome subpar hands like VD does.

If we had a good possession tight end like Olsen or Heath Miller, it would be a better fit.

I can deal with the occasional drop, as long as he's making a positive impact overall. He's still a potential mismatch problem with his size and athleticism.
Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about the drops...yet. Right now he's making a lot of 20, 30, 40 yard and TD's (the big plays). They are also using him a ton on seam routes which are very tight windows in lots of traffic. The seam route used to be Alex & VD's bread-and-butter. The "easy" drops are probably just concentration issues (they are working on him turning around quicker while he runs his routes). So developmentally, year 1 is all about learning a very complex offense and a very complaex role within it and perfecting his blocking schemes in line or out in space. Year 2 is focused on pass catching, route running and refining technique. Year 3 could be the year he puts it all together ala VD and takes off.
Vance drops a Big Mac.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by Bluesbro:
In the game day film threads, I saw plenty of receivers running free. They never got looked at or thrown to. I am not defending Morton, I don't know him from Adam. But I know what I saw on that film, and it didn't seem like a receiver problem.

It's pretty obvious this offense was designed to focus heavily on 2, maybe 3, primary pass catchers. Everyone else is an after-thought.
So true...it was really designed to be one OR the other receiver (early it was VD and Boldin) and after Crabtree came back it was (Crabtree and Boldin) and it typically rotated every other game which also leads one to believe this was by design. That was it. Hopefully, as so far so good, that changes this year with so many weapons.