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The Demise of our Pass Defense in the Play-Offs

  • buck
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
The point is they were being asked to play checkers.


I am pretty sure that is what he meant, but the phrasing just seems weirdly focused on the players.
  • KK49
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Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
You hit it on the head SanDiego!

Absolute need for a DLine ROTATION.

yaaap.... we should take couple of guys with 31 , 34 and couple of guys late ( its obvious our back up r not that good , ) we need fresh bodies ... then really doesnt matter who do we have in the back... our secondary is good only when DL are healty... everybody knows that.. thats how Goldson got his money.. lets see now how he performs without J. Smith....
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
You hit it on the head SanDiego!

Absolute need for a DLine ROTATION.

No. The defense was superb before the injuries. Unfortunately, three injuries (Aldon, Justin, Ahmad--four injuries including Dobbs) were in the same group. You're never going to backup every group with three starting caliber players. Injuries happen.
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
No. The defense was superb before the injuries. Unfortunately, three injuries (Aldon, Justin, Ahmad--four injuries including Dobbs) were in the same group. You're never going to backup every group with three starting caliber players. Injuries happen.

Don't forget Haralson. And, I think that it is about subs because Mcdonald Sopoaga even Willis were worn down by the end of the season. The front 7 was a wall in 2011, but really didn't intimidate in 2012. This is due to lack of rotation, not just serious headline grabbing injuries.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
No. The defense was superb before the injuries. Unfortunately, three injuries (Aldon, Justin, Ahmad--four injuries including Dobbs) were in the same group. You're never going to backup every group with three starting caliber players. Injuries happen.

Don't forget Haralson. And, I think that it is about subs because Mcdonald Sopoaga even Willis were worn down by the end of the season. The front 7 was a wall in 2011, but really didn't intimidate in 2012. This is due to lack of rotation, not just serious headline grabbing injuries.

Also the injury report showed through out the playoffs willis n bowman had shoulder injuries! Along with aldon. Come to find out aldons was a lil worse then let out to be.
I'll second NCommand and say this is one of the most interesting and factually substantiated threads in recent memory, with special thanks to Buck, and also brodie. A great read, and thot provoking. The info on #tackles and # sacks for OLBs was news and fascinating. We all knew Aldon played lites out, I had no idea, however, he had so darn many tackles...like some other OLBs. Good job.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
The point is they were being asked to play checkers.


I am pretty sure that is what he meant, but the phrasing just seems weirdly focused on the players.
of course i was not yelling at the players i am sure dropping back in pass coverage and not allowing little dump offs to go for big yardage is important but given we had two guys(actually 3 with brooks) that were hurt, I think they could have changed things up a bit and brought those two guys a few times. i would bet you if we had done that, some of the ravens passes would not have been completed. do not torture yourself trying to figure out by phrasing! many have tried, many have failed.
  • buck
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Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
You hit it on the head SanDiego!

Absolute need for a DLine ROTATION.

No. The defense was superb before the injuries. Unfortunately, three injuries (Aldon, Justin, Ahmad--four injuries including Dobbs) were in the same group. You're never going to backup every group with three starting caliber players. Injuries happen.

We have made two moves in the off-season to address the needs on the defensive line.

1. We signed Glenn Dorsey. In my estimation, he would be a decent rotational DE behind Justin Smith and Ray McDonald.
Jim Tomsula and Vic Fangio should be able to get more out of him than KC did.
Plus, playing behind Justin Smith for a year would be equivalent to getting a master's degree in defensive line play.

2. We extended Ian Williams. Ian Williams played nose tackle for three years and defensive end for one year in Notre Dame's 3-4 defense.
Apparently, he is a natural nose tackle. He weighed around 320 pounds at Notre Dame. Not sure what he weighs now, but if he get his weight somewhere close to 320, he might be the projected starter at nose tackle.

We should not forget or lightly dismiss these moves.
[ Edited by buck on Apr 8, 2013 at 5:37 PM ]
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
No. The defense was superb before the injuries. Unfortunately, three injuries (Aldon, Justin, Ahmad--four injuries including Dobbs) were in the same group. You're never going to backup every group with three starting caliber players. Injuries happen.

I don't think you have to have 3 starting caliber backups, but you have to get your starters on D not play more than 90% of the snaps the entire season either. A 3rd dependable end would do wonders come playoff time next year.
  • buck
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Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:
I don't think you have to have 3 starting caliber backups, but you have to get your starters on D not play more than 90% of the snaps the entire season either. A 3rd dependable end would do wonders come playoff time next year.

Glenn Dorsey could be that 3rd dependable end.
  • buck
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Originally posted by cciowa:
of course i was not yelling at the players i am sure dropping back in pass coverage and not allowing little dump offs to go for big yardage is important but given we had two guys(actually 3 with brooks) that were hurt, I think they could have changed things up a bit and brought those two guys a few times. i would bet you if we had done that, some of the ravens passes would not have been completed. do not torture yourself trying to figure out by phrasing! many have tried, many have failed.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I'll second NCommand and say this is one of the most interesting and factually substantiated threads in recent memory, with special thanks to Buck, and also brodie. A great read, and thot provoking. The info on #tackles and # sacks for OLBs was news and fascinating. We all knew Aldon played lites out, I had no idea, however, he had so darn many tackles...like some other OLBs. Good job.


We're still trying to figure out the tackle stats, actually.

You know what's missing from the official NFL defensive stats?

Downs played.

They just list games played. Seems unhelpful.

Listing the downs played would be more helpful in gauging productivity.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:
I don't think you have to have 3 starting caliber backups, but you have to get your starters on D not play more than 90% of the snaps the entire season either. A 3rd dependable end would do wonders come playoff time next year.

Glenn Dorsey could be that 3rd dependable end.
i am sure he will be buck . i am sure we will get at least two very good d line guys in the draft. i believe even if we do not draft a linebacker, we have better depth there now with P.H coming back plus the two kids we drafted last year who did not play
  • buck
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  • Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I'll second NCommand and say this is one of the most interesting and factually substantiated threads in recent memory, with special thanks to Buck, and also brodie. A great read, and thot provoking. The info on #tackles and # sacks for OLBs was news and fascinating. We all knew Aldon played lites out, I had no idea, however, he had so darn many tackles...like some other OLBs. Good job.
We're still trying to figure out the tackle stats, actually.
You know what's missing from the official NFL defensive stats?
Downs played.
They just list games played. Seems unhelpful.
Listing the downs played would be more helpful in gauging productivity.

As far as I am concerned, we have enough tackle stats.

Might I suggest you consider these two non-statistical facts.

1. Aldon Smith was voted the team MVP by the players and coaches.
2. Aldon Smith was named first team All Pro at OLB.
[ Edited by buck on Apr 8, 2013 at 7:13 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:
I don't think you have to have 3 starting caliber backups, but you have to get your starters on D not play more than 90% of the snaps the entire season either. A 3rd dependable end would do wonders come playoff time next year.

Glenn Dorsey could be that 3rd dependable end.
i am sure he will be buck . i am sure we will get at least two very good d line guys in the draft. i believe even if we do not draft a linebacker, we have better depth there now with P.H coming back plus the two kids we drafted last year who did not play

I agree. I think we should draft two defensive linemen early.

But, that is exactly the problem. The only thing that Baalke has done that I have anticipated was trading up for Collin Kaepernick.

So, I am almost willing to bet, he does not draft two defensive linemen early.
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