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2013 Team Needs - Updates

  • xcfan
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we need a proven offensive tackle to back up the starters. what we have now is garbage that will kill us in the event a starter goes down long term.

agree?

what other player do we need?
Originally posted by xcfan:
what other player do we need?

Have you considered reading the other 27 pages of this thread to answer your question? :)
  • xcfan
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Originally posted by Scoots:
Have you considered reading the other 27 pages of this thread to answer your question? :)

i asked the question just to keep it moving; so the next person would give their opinion.
  • xcfan
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cory nelms is available
  • xcfan
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ot nic purcell is available

null
  • xcfan
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anyone interested in trying ronnell lewis at ILB? the guy's a junkyard dog.

lewis
[ Edited by xcfan on Aug 25, 2013 at 11:37 PM ]
Originally posted by Scoots:
Took NCs excellent list and added a few comments:

NC ... in my mind "Top Tier" means one of the better starters at the position in the NFL ... I don't think we can expect our backups to be Top Tier most of the time, we should be happy with them having good potential and showing enough to make us comfortable they are not going to be the reason the team loses.

T - We needed a "swing T" so we got three: Carter Bykowski, Luke Marquardt (PUP) and we brought back Adam Snyder. Bykowski showed some flashes, and I really liked Marquardt as a mid-round development project pre-draft so there is real Boone-like prospects, we just need to make it through this year. - yeah, he is OK and so is Patrick Omameh but man, what a drop off. I'm also holding out for a better veteran OT and esp. for Marquardt to heal and develop as well.
SS - I think the coaches would be okay with the safety pair being Reid and Spillman for next year. But every position is a possibility for upgrade and the 49ers have a lot of draft picks to spend. Who is a "Top Tier Cover SS" now? Most SS are not great cover guys, and I think the 49ers would rather have two Eric Reid's. Patrick Willis' coverage ability is better than most SS in the NFL now. - God I hope they are not OK with this. We just saw it again, a smaller DB getting out-jumped/muscled for a TD. If Whitner was a traditonal in-the-box SS that is fine but in our 3-4, the FS and SS positions are interchangeable. So Fangio is going to have to overscheme Reid and/or match him up on the WR's and TE's in the RZ. In short, we'll be trying to cover Whitner obvious issues again. And the next point is, as a result, neither Bowman and Willis can play down hill more and even attack the QB. They have to provide underneath coverage and we still get burned in the RZ.
TE - Dobbs was the 4th TE last year and essentially never got used at the position. With McDonald, Celek, and Gray the 49ers have a trio of good, raw, and very different players at the position that I'm comfortable going forward with. - Me too. Absolutely. I like all of them for very different reasons.
Top or Second Tier DE - The 49ers should always draft a DL but if they are only going to keep 5 or 6 on the roster there isn't much room to add more in the next few years. - yeah Divens is my dark horse, Ian Williams-developmental guy. With both Tank/Dial on PUP, I'm curious to see what happens here.
Top or Second Tier CB - Since Harbaugh/Fangio came in the only CBs drafted have been "big" corners ... Fangio prefers corners who can come up and fill effectively on the run. He still dramatically favors stopping the run first in his defensive players and scheme and thus shys away from the "slot" corner idea. I think Morris was an excellent pickup because he may get a chance to impress Fangio into loosening up some of his ideas. All that said, CB is still a need because you can never have too many quality corners and our current group is likely to be massively different next year with cuts, age, and ending contracts. - Yeah, I will most likely switch back to Cooper! Love him and Morris for very different reasons. And we still have Wright on the shelf. Not bad! And Nnamdi looks terrific and until yesterday, Cox was playing very well. Can Brown/Rogers keep up on trailing routes and not get out-muscled?
Top or Second Tier NT - NT is in good shape with Williams ... The last early round NT the 49ers drafted was Michael Carter. Ted Washington was, IIRC, a 1st round pick but didn't play NT until he was far away from the 49ers. It takes time to make NTs and Williams came in with all of the material needed to make one. Dorsey, Dial, Divens, and Okoye ... there is depth that will get better not worse in the next couple years. - Yeah, so far Williams is looking like a stud! Dorsey stepped up his game as well. Okoye looked like a real RDE yesterday! PS he goes?
Second Tier WR -Why not Top Tier? The 49ers have not had a stable WR group in a decade. Baalke said years ago when he was a scout that he felt it was generally a bad idea to draft a WR in the first round, he didn't take his advice and he got smacked around by reality. I think the 49ers will be drafting WRs early, but not in the 1st round for the next few years. And keep in mind that the 49ers WR cupboard is nearly bare next year without extensions and signings. True. I didn't have this as a top need b/c we have Boldin, VD, McDonald, Moore, Williams, Patton, Hall, Baldwin (now), Manningham after week 6 and basically, we are going to go HEAVY TE's. Imagine Boldin, VD, McDonald and Gray and Gore/Hunter/James lined up in the Q formation with CK? Yikes!
Second Tier C -It's only a matter of time until Kilgore takes over. Probably at some point this year. I hope he does well. He's been working hard.
Second Tier FB - Dixon isn't a good runner or blocker and he may not stick around. Tukuafu played a lot as a FB last year I expect this will be filled by a player from a different position group in the future too ... TE, OL, DL ... they'll find someone without adding a 2nd designated FB. On the other hand, they may try to keep a developmental FB on the PS as insurance. - Agreed. big boobie has slmmed down and looks much better as a runner this year but still isn't a stellar blocker or pass protects correctly 100% of the time. I'd love Jason as the pure FB and Miller is an absolute stud. But Dixon does bring ST, heart, versatility, etc. I get it.

Thanks Scoot for the response (reply above). What I mean by "top or second" tier is in relation to OUR needs. What I mean by that is that is it a top need for us and how is the drop off from the starter to "next man up." That plays into it. For instance, if Staley or Davis go down at OT, the drop off between them and the next man makes it a top tier need! No doubt!
Originally posted by xcfan:
we need a proven offensive tackle to back up the starters. what we have now is garbage that will kill us in the event a starter goes down long term.

agree?

I think we'd all feel happy if we could find a veteran OT that could protect CK's blindside should Staley go down...one that would not force us to change 2 of the 5 spots.
Originally posted by NCommand:
I think we'd all feel happy if we could find a veteran OT that could protect CK's blindside should Staley go down...one that would not force us to change 2 of the 5 spots.

I could tackle being a position to draft for a little higher next season. If not that, then signing a veteran tackle to a low contract, Baalke style. I don't like the potential reshuffling that would have to take place either if an OT were to go down.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I think we'd all feel happy if we could find a veteran OT that could protect CK's blindside should Staley go down...one that would not force us to change 2 of the 5 spots.

I could tackle being a position to draft for a little higher next season. If not that, then signing a veteran tackle to a low contract, Baalke style. I don't like the potential reshuffling that would have to take place either if an OT were to go down.

Agree. Would like a better tackle to be a backup.
  • xcfan
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Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I could tackle being a position to draft for a little higher next season. If not that, then signing a veteran tackle to a low contract, Baalke style. I don't like the potential reshuffling that would have to take place either if an OT were to go down.

if any tackle goes down, we lose RG also. we get boone playing tackle and snyder or looney or kilgore at guard; that's a whole new line that has to morph into a unit. too much disruption for one injury, and it WILL harm the run game on the right side--at least. all those problems caused by the loss of one out of five on the line; just a bad situation.

so, apparently haralson is on the trade block. this is an opportunity to get an offensive tackle that can make plays.
make it happen.
  • xcfan
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do ya think harbs brings in marecic?
The only thing thus teams needs its a bigger trophy showcase cause this year we are delivering #6 yeah baby!!
Alright Niner fans...these were our team needs. How did we do?

Current Interests/Needs (in order of importance IMHO) - Note that top tier = higher need & second tier = secondary need (some breathing room). If a need is labeled top tier, it could also indicate the large drop off in talent from a starter to the next-man-up.
Top Tier T - We needed a "swing T" so we got three: Carter Bykowski and Luke Marquardt (PUP) and we brought back Adam Snyder. That said, Marquardt is on the NFI list, Bykowski is weak and NOBODY wants Snyder to be the backside blocker for CK (hand injury as well). Worse off, if there is another injury to Staley, we may have to mess with the chemistry along the entire OL and move Boone from RG to T (not easy to adjust to on the fly) and insert someone else at RG (2 of 5 positions); that would be Looney (LG) or Kilgore. This is NOT good. We still have a major hole here IMHO. Will we pick up a veteran LT?
Top Tier Cover SS - It's safe to say the FO got their man in Reid at FS. Dahl seems like a viable backup at both SS/FS and will also help a ton on ST. That said, Whitner still can't cover esp. in the RZ and looks even slower to me so far in pre season; so scheme will have to be the theme for 2013 here. Fangio is going to have to put Reid 1on1 on the Boldin's and tall slot TE's of the world. That said, he didn't do that with Goldson, so why would he with Reid? Nothing else to report here save for Spillman and perhaps, Robinson (if he even makes it; short as well). We shouldn't have to rely solely on the pass rush esp. in the RZ where passes are typically made less than a 3-step drop and right down the middle of the field (I'm looking at you Whitner and the underneath coverage of Willis/Bowman!).
Top Kickoff Coverage Unit/Ace Kick-Punt Returner - Our best gunners this pre season by far were Lockette, Morris and Osgood. Our #1 gunner is now gone and neither Morris or Osgood are expected to make the team. If Moore makes it as the #2 or #3 he won't be playing gunner on ST anymore (best guess). This is an ignored area of concern and it cost us in the Superbowl and is still affecting us greatly in pre season; we did look better against the Chargers. Cox has looked way better than James (injured) but nobody would classify him as "dynamic/electric" and nobody fears him taking it to the house every time he touches the ball (like we do against every team we face, it seems). While some teams have 2 dynamic returners, we can't seem to find one. Now Patton is being tried out, Williams is back and Hawkins looks like the only real viable "dynamic" returner who has some "it" to him. But how do we keep him on the roster and ahead of the #6 guy in Hall who also is a backup returner and reliable receiver?
Top or Second Tier DE - Tomsula had Christmas with getting Cornellius Carradine, Quinton Dial and a major project in Lawrence Okoye but he may not see any of them under Christmas 2013! That said, Tank and Dial will most likely be red-shirted this year (PUP) and Okoye is hoping to make the PS. Fortunately, Dobbs continues to impress and Dorsey can play DE and NT behind Ian Williams. McDonald and both Smith's are 100% healthy. Do we keep a guy like Will Tukuafu or Tony Jerod-Eddie in the interim (neither would add much, if any ST ability). If we keep 6 here (5 likely active) what other areas on the team get cut?
Top or Second Tier CB - Only picking up Marcus Cooper/Nnamdi (later, Darryl Morris) screams to me, "SCHEME is the THEME for 2013!" Look for bigger, stronger, taller more physical starting CB's this year to play press more and perhaps, all across the DB lineup. Look for our shiftier CB's (esp. Brown) to move into the slot to cover the micro-talented WR's of Harvin (IR) and Austin. Darryl Morris has a real shot here! Cooper seems to play very sound, disciplined in the games (smart, mature) and Morris has made some big splashes in practices and has epic speed and great coverage on deep balls. You can't teach what both Cooper and Morris have! Rogers is still "OK" (still loses battles) but Nnamdi and Cox (terrible one game) have both looked tremendous and Brock has looked very good as well. Obviously, the pass rush has allowed them to play with the WR's in front of them more and play much more aggressively. But as proven in pre season, if it's a jump ball, we're losing that battle every time. Hopefully, Nnamdi can help out in this area as he's won the #3 CB spot.
Top or Second Tier NT - Well, let's be real here, passing up every single NT in the draft tells me, "SCHEME is the new THEME in 2013!" Look for many more 4-man DL and inside and outside pass rushers up at the LOS. Boy, hasn't THIS become true thus far. And with Lemonier, Skuta and Johnson rocking all pre season, we're golden at OLB. My underrated dark horse was Lamar Divens who is the only true 2-gap NT we have; I'm hoping he and Okoye make it to the PS and develop ala Ian Williams. Ian thus far, has been tremendous and appears to be even better than the old Sopoaga/RJF and Dorsey appears to be a lock behind him and in rotation at both NT and DE. I'm still concerned about facing power running teams and in short yardage/goal line situations.
Second Tier WR - Well, it seems like Moore or Patton will end up being the primary WR opposite Boldin. Crabtree's injury hurts a lot but thankfully we have an even more productive veteran in Boldin to ease that loss. Do not expect Crabtree back at all this year though. That said, we can expect Manningham back after week 6 which is why we will probably only start the year with 5 or 6 WR's: X = Marlon Moore/Jon Baldwin --- Y = Kyle Williams/Chad Hall or Lavelle Hawkins --- Z = Anquan Boldin/Quinton Patton. The important thing to remember here is that we run a "package offense" so ALL of these guys will be used in all three spots depending on the play called by HaRoMan. And let's be honest here, VD and McDonald are going to be lined up everywhere to create mismatches so you can expect less receptions from the WR group this year unless we look to employ more 3+ WR sets (but I doubt it - think we still focus on a controlled offense/TOP). I saw a couple times where we ran a 5-receiver set and only ONE of those guys was a WR.
Second Tier C - Patrick Omameh (moved to RT) and Sherman Carter were added to compete with our red-shirted Looney and Kilgore. Do we have a potential cut of Goodwin here? If not he'll most likely have to restructure but make no mistake about it he's still in a dog fight to start now that Kilgore played so well this pre season. It's still undecided who wins as the starter but it's most likely Goodwin (chemistry). Also, Looney has been working out at LG and C and he looks MUCH better at C. In fact, he looks legit at C.
Second Tier FB - We have nobody behind our pro bowler, Bruce Miller. Dixon will make the team as the short yardage RB and backup FB but he's a pretty poor blocker at times and blows many pass protection assignments; he's also slimmed down more to be part of the passing game/running game. We probably need a pure FB here; someone like Jason Schepler is legit (if he can excel on ST coverage units as well) but this in unlikely b/c of how stacked we are on the 53.
Third Tier TE - Harbauh got HIS man in Vance McDonald. The team also brought in MarQueis Gray as a project as well for Walker's old H-Back role. I originally had VD, McDonald and Gray (H-back) making the team with Celek getting cut. We are on par with that but Celek is not a poor player and we could end up keeping 4 TE's at the expense of the WR group (keeping 5 instead of 6) or go reverse here. Let's be real here; the 2-TE sets are going to be dominant this year and expect many looks for these TE's from the Q-formation, slot position and even split out wide as a WR. As a result, that #5 and/or #6 WR won't see the field much at all except on ST. The team could stick with Celek as the #3 over Gray and risk him to the PS (likely).

Roster:
In the end, of Robinson, Hampton, Gray, Tukuafu, Jerod-Eddie, Hall, Hawkins, etc. who adds the most immediate production on the ACTIVE 46 and who adds the most value in the short-long term? These are TOUGH decisions to make!
[ Edited by NCommand on Aug 31, 2013 at 7:39 AM ]
Originally posted by xcfan:
do ya think harbs brings in marecic?

Fair question!