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2013 Team Needs - Updates

Originally posted by NCommand:
These are some of the questions I raise as well esp. after many of comments Baalke made yesterday. Of all the interviews, HE is one interview that I listen to very closely b/c he has telegraphed some things to me in the past (e.g. Aldon Smith). Other things that help to decipher this code that is pre-draft predictions are related to players and esp. positions we host, interview, watch workouts, etc.

So to your question, this could be another DW (hopefully with better hands and concentration). That said, I still believe we'll end up taking a very tall 6'7" RZ threat as well. B/c the bottom line is, if VD goes down, that's a critical piece to our entire offense. Also, with our "Stanford offense" two TE's are used and used a lot as we've seen with VD and DW. But if we add a dynamic threat, both out of the Q in the backfield together, one at the LOS the other out wide, both at the LOS, etc. Roman will have endless "formations" to use and we all know how big he is on creating confusion and mismatches with formations. So, in short, I still think we pick a higher TE, probably a 3rd round pick or later...Kelce (6'5") or Toilolo (6'8")? Then again, they could go for Ertz (6'5") if he falls as well (ala Fleener) and go DE and FS later?

Either way this is more competition.

According to AB:

Tight Ends:
1 Tyler Eifert*, Notre Dame
2 Zach Ertz*, Stanford
3 Gavin Escobar*, San Diego State
4 Dion Sims*, Michigan State
5 Travis Kelce, Cincinnati
6 Vance McDonald, Rice
7 Kyle Juszczyk, Harvard
8 Levine Toilolo*, Stanford
9 Chris Gragg, Arkansas
10 Jordan Reed*, Florida
11 Ryan Otten, San Jose State
12 Nick Kasa, Colorado
13 Joseph Fauria, UCLA
14 Michael Williams, Alabama
15 Jake Stoneburner, Ohio State
I totally agree that they're gonna take another TE in the draft. Their Stanford offense featured multiple TE formations and had three or more TEs who contributed frequently.

Delanie Walker was what, a later round pick? He had good speed and developed into a good blocker, but didn't really blossom as a versatile threat until Harbaugh took over. I can see Morrah filling the same role, if he's as good as Walker was at learning all the formations and plays. Walker was sometimes inconsistent at catching the ball, but he always seemed to be in the right place at the right time as far as executing plays was concerned--both runs and passes.

So it looks like Morrah has the physical tools, and if he catches on to the offense, there's no reason why he couldn't fill Walker's role. Looks like a great FA pick up, and completely under the radar of all the various talking heads!

Now if we could just figure out what Baalke's thinking about the secondary.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
I totally agree that they're gonna take another TE in the draft. Their Stanford offense featured multiple TE formations and had three or more TEs who contributed frequently.

Delanie Walker was what, a later round pick? He had good speed and developed into a good blocker, but didn't really blossom as a versatile threat until Harbaugh took over. I can see Morrah filling the same role, if he's as good as Walker was at learning all the formations and plays. Walker was sometimes inconsistent at catching the ball, but he always seemed to be in the right place at the right time as far as executing plays was concerned--both runs and passes.

So it looks like Morrah has the physical tools, and if he catches on to the offense, there's no reason why he couldn't fill Walker's role. Looks like a great FA pick up, and completely under the radar of all the various talking heads!

Now if we could just figure out what Baalke's thinking about the secondary.

I feel exactly the same way. And oooooh yes, about that secondary.

I don't even know where to start with this one. You wanna give it a go?
BTW: It looks like we play ALL of the great running teams this year...power RB's and OL's. This is an area we struggled with last year.

Home Games will be against: Arizona, St. Louis, Seattle, Atlanta, Carolina, Houston, Indianapolis, Green Bay
Away Games will be against: Arizona, St. Louis, Seattle, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Washington

Are we going 2 DL early in this draft (NT and DE)?
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
I totally agree that they're gonna take another TE in the draft. Their Stanford offense featured multiple TE formations and had three or more TEs who contributed frequently.

Delanie Walker was what, a later round pick? He had good speed and developed into a good blocker, but didn't really blossom as a versatile threat until Harbaugh took over. I can see Morrah filling the same role, if he's as good as Walker was at learning all the formations and plays. Walker was sometimes inconsistent at catching the ball, but he always seemed to be in the right place at the right time as far as executing plays was concerned--both runs and passes.

So it looks like Morrah has the physical tools, and if he catches on to the offense, there's no reason why he couldn't fill Walker's role. Looks like a great FA pick up, and completely under the radar of all the various talking heads!

Now if we could just figure out what Baalke's thinking about the secondary.

I feel exactly the same way. And oooooh yes, about that secondary.

I don't even know where to start with this one. You wanna give it a go?
Well, I think there's certain limitations posed by Rogers and Whitner, but there are also new possibilities presented by Asomugha and possibly Woodson. The coaches were clearly unhappy with the secondary play at the end of last season, and are working to make some changes.

Their best press coverage CBs may be Asomugha and Culliver (also the two tallest CBs), and that leaves Rogers and Brown to fight for nickel/dime CB. Or move Culliver to FS and use Rogers in press coverage?

No matter what the personnel turns out to be, I think they're gonna want a more aggressive secondary that's better at coverage, especially on the deep pass. Bye bye Goldson, who always seemed to struggle to help cover deep routes. They want a taller, rangier FS with speed who can help the taller CBs cover guys like Fitzgerald deep, and is more of a QB in the secondary--not just a big hitter/intimidator. A more aggressive secndary may also free up the front seven for more blitz action.

I dunno, what do you think?
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Well, I think there's certain limitations posed by Rogers and Whitner, but there are also new possibilities presented by Asomugha and possibly Woodson. The coaches were clearly unhappy with the secondary play at the end of last season, and are working to make some changes.

Their best press coverage CBs may be Asomugha and Culliver (also the two tallest CBs), and that leaves Rogers and Brown to fight for nickel/dime CB. Or move Culliver to FS and use Rogers in press coverage?

No matter what the personnel turns out to be, I think they're gonna want a more aggressive secondary that's better at coverage, especially on the deep pass. Bye bye Goldson, who always seemed to struggle to help cover deep routes. They want a taller, rangier FS with speed who can help the taller CBs cover guys like Fitzgerald deep, and is more of a QB in the secondary--not just a big hitter/intimidator. A more aggressive secndary may also free up the front seven for more blitz action.

I dunno, what do you think?

OK OND, it's aafe to say we have the EXACT same thought-process here...literally. The only thing I can add is that I expect Dahl to play SS and back up Whitner (or start). Whitner could end up being a salary cut as well. Goldson's departure and Whitner's lack of coverage ability (esp. in the RZ/EZ) may force us to become more of a "coverage" secondary like you say...versus a physically intimidating secondary except on the outside where our bigger, stronger CB's will play more press coverage...forcing the WR's inside to better coverage and more TO's. And thank God for that! Goldson had only 3 INT's and 2 FF and Whitner had 1 INT and 2 FF's in 19 games! That's downright pathetic. They were destroyed in the playoffs. And we all know Whitner gave up 14 TD's by himself. I wouldn't be surprised if Goldson wasn't too far behind him in this category as well. But hey, at least they had SportsCenter Highlights! So to your point, we'll be looking at taller, faster, quicker S's with more range and speed to actually help out the CB's deep, cover deep and free up Willis/Bowman is absolutely ideal and essential if we are to take the next step. The other peace is stopping the run as we play a TON of bigger, power running teams this year.

So, let's go FS & SS, true 3-4 NT & DE and 6'5"+ TE. Everything else is bonus...
Originally posted by NCommand:
OK OND, it's aafe to say we have the EXACT same thought-process here...literally. The only thing I can add is that I expect Dahl to play SS and back up Whitner (or start). Whitner could end up being a salary cut as well. Goldson's departure and Whitner's lack of coverage ability (esp. in the RZ/EZ) may force us to become more of a "coverage" secondary like you say...versus a physically intimidating secondary except on the outside where our bigger, stronger CB's will play more press coverage...forcing the WR's inside to better coverage and more TO's. And thank God for that! Goldson had only 3 INT's and 2 FF and Whitner had 1 INT and 2 FF's in 19 games! That's downright pathetic. They were destroyed in the playoffs. And we all know Whitner gave up 14 TD's by himself. I wouldn't be surprised if Goldson wasn't too far behind him in this category as well. But hey, at least they had SportsCenter Highlights! So to your point, we'll be looking at taller, faster, quicker S's with more range and speed to actually help out the CB's deep, cover deep and free up Willis/Bowman is absolutely ideal and essential if we are to take the next step. The other peace is stopping the run as we play a TON of bigger, power running teams this year.

So, let's go FS & SS, true 3-4 NT & DE and 6'5"+ TE. Everything else is bonus...
Press coverage by bigger, taller CBs would force WRs into making double moves and running deep sideline routes, so a FS would have to have the speed to go sideline to sideline, the ability to read a QB's eyes to figure out where the throw's gonna go, and the ability to play the ball in the air.

It would be nice to have not one but two safety's who could be virtually interchangeable and thus cause a QB some concern about who's got deep cover responsibility and who's gonna play run support. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Whitner is a liability, unfortunately.

One thing seems clear, the coaching staff was VERY unhappy with the secondary play in the playoffs and especially in the SuperBowl. That play where Culliver got beat deep and there was NO help over the top, then the Baltimore WR fell down and Goldson ran past him without touching him down, that play gave up a td and was as much the cause of the loss as any play in the game. I don't think they want to see anything like that again. I know I don't. lol.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by NCommand:
OK OND, it's aafe to say we have the EXACT same thought-process here...literally. The only thing I can add is that I expect Dahl to play SS and back up Whitner (or start). Whitner could end up being a salary cut as well. Goldson's departure and Whitner's lack of coverage ability (esp. in the RZ/EZ) may force us to become more of a "coverage" secondary like you say...versus a physically intimidating secondary except on the outside where our bigger, stronger CB's will play more press coverage...forcing the WR's inside to better coverage and more TO's. And thank God for that! Goldson had only 3 INT's and 2 FF and Whitner had 1 INT and 2 FF's in 19 games! That's downright pathetic. They were destroyed in the playoffs. And we all know Whitner gave up 14 TD's by himself. I wouldn't be surprised if Goldson wasn't too far behind him in this category as well. But hey, at least they had SportsCenter Highlights! So to your point, we'll be looking at taller, faster, quicker S's with more range and speed to actually help out the CB's deep, cover deep and free up Willis/Bowman is absolutely ideal and essential if we are to take the next step. The other peace is stopping the run as we play a TON of bigger, power running teams this year.

So, let's go FS & SS, true 3-4 NT & DE and 6'5"+ TE. Everything else is bonus...
Press coverage by bigger, taller CBs would force WRs into making double moves and running deep sideline routes, so a FS would have to have the speed to go sideline to sideline, the ability to read a QB's eyes to figure out where the throw's gonna go, and the ability to play the ball in the air.

It would be nice to have not one but two safety's who could be virtually interchangeable and thus cause a QB some concern about who's got deep cover responsibility and who's gonna play run support. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Whitner is a liability, unfortunately.

One thing seems clear, the coaching staff was VERY unhappy with the secondary play in the playoffs and especially in the SuperBowl. That play where Culliver got beat deep and there was NO help over the top, then the Baltimore WR fell down and Goldson ran past him without touching him down, that play gave up a td and was as much the cause of the loss as any play in the game. I don't think they want to see anything like that again. I know I don't. lol.

Just want to jump in here and add my 2 cents.

I agree with a lot of what you both are saying here, with one exception. I think, and this is strictly a W.A.G., the ENTIRE secondary is an open competition. The 4 best players will start regardless of "position". I know, it's crazy, but, it's a gut feeling for me. Then again, with this coaching staff, maybe it's not TOO far fetched?
Originally posted by Beeker:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by NCommand:
OK OND, it's aafe to say we have the EXACT same thought-process here...literally. The only thing I can add is that I expect Dahl to play SS and back up Whitner (or start). Whitner could end up being a salary cut as well. Goldson's departure and Whitner's lack of coverage ability (esp. in the RZ/EZ) may force us to become more of a "coverage" secondary like you say...versus a physically intimidating secondary except on the outside where our bigger, stronger CB's will play more press coverage...forcing the WR's inside to better coverage and more TO's. And thank God for that! Goldson had only 3 INT's and 2 FF and Whitner had 1 INT and 2 FF's in 19 games! That's downright pathetic. They were destroyed in the playoffs. And we all know Whitner gave up 14 TD's by himself. I wouldn't be surprised if Goldson wasn't too far behind him in this category as well. But hey, at least they had SportsCenter Highlights! So to your point, we'll be looking at taller, faster, quicker S's with more range and speed to actually help out the CB's deep, cover deep and free up Willis/Bowman is absolutely ideal and essential if we are to take the next step. The other peace is stopping the run as we play a TON of bigger, power running teams this year.

So, let's go FS & SS, true 3-4 NT & DE and 6'5"+ TE. Everything else is bonus...
Press coverage by bigger, taller CBs would force WRs into making double moves and running deep sideline routes, so a FS would have to have the speed to go sideline to sideline, the ability to read a QB's eyes to figure out where the throw's gonna go, and the ability to play the ball in the air.

It would be nice to have not one but two safety's who could be virtually interchangeable and thus cause a QB some concern about who's got deep cover responsibility and who's gonna play run support. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Whitner is a liability, unfortunately.

One thing seems clear, the coaching staff was VERY unhappy with the secondary play in the playoffs and especially in the SuperBowl. That play where Culliver got beat deep and there was NO help over the top, then the Baltimore WR fell down and Goldson ran past him without touching him down, that play gave up a td and was as much the cause of the loss as any play in the game. I don't think they want to see anything like that again. I know I don't. lol.

Just want to jump in here and add my 2 cents.

I agree with a lot of what you both are saying here, with one exception. I think, and this is strictly a W.A.G., the ENTIRE secondary is an open competition. The 4 best players will start regardless of "position". I know, it's crazy, but, it's a gut feeling for me. Then again, with this coaching staff, maybe it's not TOO far fetched?

LMAO! I'd say I agree with that. The point OND brought up just now about the S positions being interchangeable, Baalke alluded to that on his own yesterday.

And it's legit...he's said this before. I'll repost here for everyone:

Interesting quotes from Baalke from the Home page articles.
"The teams that have been successful are drafting for need a year or two ahead of time," Baalke explained. ~ This could allude to drafting WR & CB's high.

"I wouldn't say we went out way to look for a corner that's 6-(foot)-1, 6-2," Baalke said. "It's a situation where stars aligned." ~ More proof (and all through FA) Baalke wants to get bigger, more physical at the CB position. OND and others have alluded to perhaps, Culliver and Nnamdi as the starting CB's with Brown/Rogers in the slot. I noted that against taller TE's, you could even match Nnamdi up on these guys in the RZ/EZ and move Brown/Rogers outside.

Glenn Dorsey was the first player the 49ers signed in free agency last month, and his "versatility" along the defensive line is what Baalke praised most. "In our system he's going to be asked to do some similar things, and yet some different things. When we go into our 40 package, he'll be down inside. When we go into our 30 package he might be playing nose or might be playing some end. The good thing about him is his versatility. He can multi-align in our system. He can play 3 technique, he can play 1 technique, he can play the 0 and he can play the 5. And he can play the 4. So his ability to multi-align is advantageous to us." ~ Is this evidence we'll be looking for smaller DT's who can play both positions rather than a prototypical NT or 3-4 DE? Maybe a smaller guy like Carradine (276)?

Charles Woodson, one of the first free agents the 49ers hosted, remains both unsigned and on the 49ers' radar. "We feel he can still play game. We'll continue to look at that and see how the draft goes. Charles is certainly somebody we're still interested in." ~ I have been saying all along, I would not be surprised if we signed him but that they may be waiting to see if they get their FS. Heck, even if they DO get their FS, they may want him to learn behind Woodson.

On the two S's ideally being interchangeable, "Would you like to have mirror-image guys so you can disguise maybe a little bit more creatively? Yeah, I think so…"

On this year's large pool, "Could you get the same player at 39 or 45 that you're going to get at 20? That's certainly a possibility."

Something to consider in this draft especially. "And that's the job of the coaches and that's also the job of the evaluators to make sure we're getting guys that are fitting our system. We talk about it all the time–you can't stick a square peg in a round hole, it doesn't fit (ahem, Manny Lawson, ahem)."

– The 49ers have 53 local prospects working out Wednesday, including Nate Montana
Four players attending the workout but not participating are:
Stanford's Zach Ertz (TE) ~ it's safe to say TE will be a top pick IMHO
Levine Toilolo (TE)
Chase Thomas (LB)
Oregon's Kiko Alonso (LB)
I believe Ertz actually showed uo though and has spoken publicly about wanting to play for us.
Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO! I'd say I agree with that. The point OND brought up just now about the S positions being interchangeable, Baalke alluded to that on his own yesterday.

And it's legit...he's said this before. I'll repost here for everyone:

Interesting quotes from Baalke from the Home page articles.
"The teams that have been successful are drafting for need a year or two ahead of time," Baalke explained. ~ This could allude to drafting WR & CB's high.

"I wouldn't say we went out way to look for a corner that's 6-(foot)-1, 6-2," Baalke said. "It's a situation where stars aligned." ~ More proof (and all through FA) Baalke wants to get bigger, more physical at the CB position. OND and others have alluded to perhaps, Culliver and Nnamdi as the starting CB's with Brown/Rogers in the slot. I noted that against taller TE's, you could even match Nnamdi up on these guys in the RZ/EZ and move Brown/Rogers outside.

Glenn Dorsey was the first player the 49ers signed in free agency last month, and his "versatility" along the defensive line is what Baalke praised most. "In our system he's going to be asked to do some similar things, and yet some different things. When we go into our 40 package, he'll be down inside. When we go into our 30 package he might be playing nose or might be playing some end. The good thing about him is his versatility. He can multi-align in our system. He can play 3 technique, he can play 1 technique, he can play the 0 and he can play the 5. And he can play the 4. So his ability to multi-align is advantageous to us." ~ Is this evidence we'll be looking for smaller DT's who can play both positions rather than a prototypical NT or 3-4 DE? Maybe a smaller guy like Carradine (276)?

Charles Woodson, one of the first free agents the 49ers hosted, remains both unsigned and on the 49ers' radar. "We feel he can still play game. We'll continue to look at that and see how the draft goes. Charles is certainly somebody we're still interested in." ~ I have been saying all along, I would not be surprised if we signed him but that they may be waiting to see if they get their FS. Heck, even if they DO get their FS, they may want him to learn behind Woodson.

On the two S's ideally being interchangeable, "Would you like to have mirror-image guys so you can disguise maybe a little bit more creatively? Yeah, I think so…"

On this year's large pool, "Could you get the same player at 39 or 45 that you're going to get at 20? That's certainly a possibility."

Something to consider in this draft especially. "And that's the job of the coaches and that's also the job of the evaluators to make sure we're getting guys that are fitting our system. We talk about it all the time–you can't stick a square peg in a round hole, it doesn't fit (ahem, Manny Lawson, ahem)."

– The 49ers have 53 local prospects working out Wednesday, including Nate Montana
Four players attending the workout but not participating are:
Stanford's Zach Ertz (TE) ~ it's safe to say TE will be a top pick IMHO
Levine Toilolo (TE)
Chase Thomas (LB)
Oregon's Kiko Alonso (LB)
"ahem, Manny Lawson, ahem" Great quote. lol.

The best 4 start in the secondary. I second that.

My dream scenario: Woodson and a Rookie at FS amd SS with Culliver and Nnamdi at CBs--challenge every pass and force the QB to go to his third and fourth read all day--while Bowman and Willis take turns blitzing on passing downs and tackling on run plays.

Man, I cannot wait.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
I believe Ertz actually showed uo though and has spoken publicly about wanting to play for us.
I thought I read somewhere that Ertz actually took part in the drills, etc. Shows he really wants to play for Harbaugh & his coaches.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
"ahem, Manny Lawson, ahem" Great quote. lol.

The best 4 start in the secondary. I second that.

My dream scenario: Woodson and a Rookie at FS amd SS with Culliver and Nnamdi at CBs--challenge every pass and force the QB to go to his third and fourth read all day--while Bowman and Willis take turns blitzing on passing downs and tackling on run plays.

Man, I cannot wait.

LOL. I couldn't resist!

I'm dreaming with you brother!!! And yeah, Ertz is quoted on the front page as saying he'd love to play for us...duh...who wouldn't? Brandon Jacobs? Hehe
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
"ahem, Manny Lawson, ahem" Great quote. lol.

The best 4 start in the secondary. I second that.

My dream scenario: Woodson and a Rookie at FS amd SS with Culliver and Nnamdi at CBs--challenge every pass and force the QB to go to his third and fourth read all day--while Bowman and Willis take turns blitzing on passing downs and tackling on run plays.

Man, I cannot wait.

LOL. I couldn't resist!

I'm dreaming with you brother!!! And yeah, Ertz is quoted on the front page as saying he'd love to play for us...duh...who wouldn't? Brandon Jacobs? Hehe
lol.
Originally posted by NCommand:
BTW: It looks like we play ALL of the great running teams this year...power RB's and OL's. This is an area we struggled with last year.

Home Games will be against: Arizona, St. Louis, Seattle, Atlanta, Carolina, Houston, Indianapolis, Green Bay
Away Games will be against: Arizona, St. Louis, Seattle, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Washington

Are we going 2 DL early in this draft (NT and DE)?

all were ranked 19 and lower, except for bucks (15th)

I think we play against the same amount of "great" running teams
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
"ahem, Manny Lawson, ahem" Great quote. lol.

The best 4 start in the secondary. I second that.

My dream scenario: Woodson and a Rookie at FS amd SS with Culliver and Nnamdi at CBs--challenge every pass and force the QB to go to his third and fourth read all day--while Bowman and Willis take turns blitzing on passing downs and tackling on run plays.

Man, I cannot wait.

LOL. I couldn't resist!

I'm dreaming with you brother!!! And yeah, Ertz is quoted on the front page as saying he'd love to play for us...duh...who wouldn't? Brandon Jacobs? Hehe
lol.

Nice to know I'm not the only one that thinks best 4 start.
...