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2013 Team Needs - Updates

Originally posted by Beeker:
Originally posted by gold49digger:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
It's easy to overlook Jennings' value, but how many long snaps has he missed in his entire career? I can't think of one in the last 8 years. That counts for something.

who remembers the raiders game when they lost their LS....

That was a NIGHTMARE

Dude completely muffed 2 snaps and cost em the game i think. Then blamed it on the dirt lol.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by cciowa:
jennings is not going anywhere. the minute you start to pooh pooh special teams, you will get bit in the ass . jennings is one one trick pony that we will keep
You mean like last year? I don't think they're overlooking ST this year. Seemed to be a focus during FA.

That being said, however, grooming a long snapper to replace Jennings may have been done last year without much public attention. I doubt that Harbaugh would risk having only one guy who could fill that role. I thought I read that Kilgore was practicing the skill. Is he ready to take over? If he is it would save a spot on the 53 man roster.

So the question for you might come down to who to keep: an excellent but aging long snapper, or an extra DB (Asomujgha?) for a secondary in need of help?

This is an interesting point b/c if this is the case, we run many plays from the Q formation (shot gun) and this requires, basically a longer snap. If this is true...and most likely is...it could also give us an indication into the plans at C post-Goodwin. I keep hearing Looney mentioned at C more as of late. With AJ's lack of production and the draft overall, in question, I sort of feel Looney might be "the guy" Baalke pushes the coaching staff to develop at C for this year. Harbaugh would still choose the best option there but the FO has to weigh Goodwin's big contract as well. Things to think about...
Originally posted by NCommand:
This is an interesting point b/c if this is the case, we run many plays from the Q formation (shot gun) and this requires, basically a longer snap. If this is true...and most likely is...it could also give us an indication into the plans at C post-Goodwin. I keep hearing Looney mentioned at C more as of late. With AJ's lack of production and the draft overall, in question, I sort of feel Looney might be "the guy" Baalke pushes the coaching staff to develop at C for this year. Harbaugh would still choose the best option there but the FO has to weigh Goodwin's big contract as well. Things to think about...

At one point I was ready for Goodwin's head last year. It wasn't fair of me since he wasn't use to it but he was struggling with those shotgun snaps. Seemed a lot better as he got use to Colin. It's a good point though, whether it's Looney or Kilgore they better know how to snap shotgun. All it takes is one bad snap to change a game or a season. Will be interesting to see if we keep him for one more year but like I said wouldn't it have made sense to have guys like Goodwin restructure when we did Manningham and Haralson? Unless we want to see how many picks we have and what cap room we have after the draft and if we are going to sign anyone after June 1st. Could also be that we are moving on and we want to wait until June 1st to cut him so we can split the cap hit over 2 years. Would only be 666k I believe so 333k a year isn't bad at all. I'd say keep him for sure but our cap might not allow it.

Someone will have to get cut.. Rogers only saves 1.1 mil and cost us 6.23 mil in dead money and even after june 1st splitting that over 2 years at 3.1 mil a year it's way too much considering we only had 985k total for all players in dead money this year. Next year we can cut him and have 5.1 mil in savings and only 3 mil in hits but put that over the 2 seasons (after june 1st cut) and 1.5 isn't too bad. Just don't see him getting cut this year and I don't think Rogers is as bad as most are saying. Amendola is gone but I'd keep him off Harvin and Cruz if we face him. Other than that he wasn't bad. So it's probably between Whitner and Goodwin. Whitner to me was one of the top 10-15 safeties in 2011 but he really fell off last year in pass coverage. Whitner would save 4.1 mil and 833k in hit so it's close to Goodwin's 4.35 and 666k hit. Goodwin was the better player last year but he saves us an extra 250k and the hit is 170k less. Who's backup is more ready might play into it and also having 2 rookie safeties is a plus for keeping Whitner. It's a strong SS class though. So who's more ready: Looney/Kilgore vs Robinson or DP (2 rookie safeties...yikes!).
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Apr 14, 2013 at 5:36 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by NCommand:
This is an interesting point b/c if this is the case, we run many plays from the Q formation (shot gun) and this requires, basically a longer snap. If this is true...and most likely is...it could also give us an indication into the plans at C post-Goodwin. I keep hearing Looney mentioned at C more as of late. With AJ's lack of production and the draft overall, in question, I sort of feel Looney might be "the guy" Baalke pushes the coaching staff to develop at C for this year. Harbaugh would still choose the best option there but the FO has to weigh Goodwin's big contract as well. Things to think about...

At one point I was ready for Goodwin's head last year. It wasn't fair of me since he wasn't use to it but he was struggling with those shotgun snaps. Seemed a lot better as he got use to Colin. It's a good point though, whether it's Looney or Kilgore they better know how to snap shotgun. All it takes is one bad snap to change a game or a season. Will be interesting to see if we keep him for one more year but like I said wouldn't it have made sense to have guys like Goodwin restructure when we did Manningham and Haralson? Unless we want to see how many picks we have and what cap room we have after the draft and if we are going to sign anyone after June 1st. Could also be that we are moving on and we want to wait until June 1st so we can split the cap hit over 2 years. Would only be 666k I believe so 333k a year isn't bad at all. I'd say keep him for sure but our cap might not allow it.

Someone will have to get cut.. Rogers only saves 1.1 mil and cost us 6.23 mil in dead money and even after june 1st splitting that over 2 years at 3.1 mil a year it's way too much considering we only had 985k total for all players in dead money this year. Next year we can cut him and have 5.1 mil in savings and only 3 mil in hits but put that over the 2 seasons (after june 1st cut) and 1.5 isn't too bad. Just don't see him getting cut this year and I don't think Rogers is as bad as most are saying. Amendola is gone but I'd keep him off Harvin and Cruz if we face him. Other than that he wasn't bad. So it's probably between Whitner and Goodwin. Whitner to me was one of the top 10-15 safeties in 2011 but he really fell off last year in pass coverage. Whitner would save 4.1 mil and 833k in hit so it's close to Goodwin's 4.35 and 666k hit. Goodwin was the better player last year but he saves us an extra 250k and the hit is 170k less. Who's backup is more ready might play into it and also having 2 rookie safeties is a plus for keeping Whitner. It's a strong SS class though. So who's more ready: Looney/Kilgore vs Robinson or DP (2 rookie safeties...yikes!).

Awesome post. What about Craig Dahl? Experienced veteran, smart, captain, should play much better behind a better front 7? He seems like a viable option with Robinson backing and Spillman backing up the FS. I still think we draft a SS as well as a FS.

But I'm 100% in agreement with you...and if I had to choose one over the other, I'd hate to say it but I'd drop Whitner. 14 TD's is just way too many and I'm willing to bet Dahl wouldn't give up that many.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Awesome post. What about Craig Dahl? Experienced veteran, smart, captain, should play much better behind a better front 7? He seems like a viable option with Robinson backing and Spillman backing up the FS. I still think we draft a SS as well as a FS.

But I'm 100% in agreement with you...and if I had to choose one over the other, I'd hate to say it but I'd drop Whitner. 14 TD's is just way too many and I'm willing to bet Dahl wouldn't give up that many.

Dahl was ranked one of the worst safeties last year but he'd probably play better on our team. If it were up to me he would be a ST guy and a 2nd or 3rd string SS and FS. Basically an emergency guy... He does bring experience though which is something we don't have at backup S. Spillman has played a few snaps as an extra S, Robinson I don't think any regular season... same with McBath and Michael Thomas. Out of all those guys Spillman might be the most intriguing. Robinson I really have no idea either. Like I said though Whitner had the worse season but cutting him means we probably start 2 rookie SS unless they think Dahl, Robinson or Spillman is the answer at SS. I don't know much about him but I think Dahl is better suited at SS and Spillman/Robinson could play either. I really don't know what we will do but if I had to guess we keep Whitner, draft a FS high and he competes with Spillman and Robinson. Dahl is the backup SS and emergency FS. Whitner is good in run support, a good team leader and locker room guy. He might have to take over as a leader in the secondary with Goldson gone. Some how we need to get to like 5-6 mil for rookies with only 1 mil left.

I don't see Haralson or Manningham getting cut, why bother re-structuring them if we planned on cutting them? They are playing for dirt cheap; 1.3 and 1.8 (if I have my #'s right)...both are taking a discount to stay with us and try to make another run at a SB. Like AB says another option would be to extend someone and lower their base for this year. Boldin has a 6 mil base (add 1 year on maybe), Justin 7.5 mil base (add 1 or 2 years on). Iupati isn't making a whole lot this year and only has a 1 mil base salary so wouldn't help much. Brown could help a little with a 3 mil base that could save a few mil (would have to ask ab how much you can get that down to). So out of those guys Brown could save us a few mil if that with an extension, Iupati pretty much nothing... seems like it would be down to Justin or Boldin with a 7.5 and 6 mil base that they could turn to bonuses or put it onto next year's cap. AB would know more about it than I do. So extend Justin, Boldin or cut Goodwin or Whitner seems like the most likely options. to get us that extra 4-5 mil to pay for rookies. Maybe we trade most of our picks for next year or bundle them to get more quality to save a few million. I'd like to go from the 13 to about 8-9 total picks with the 3 comp's (cant trade them).
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Apr 14, 2013 at 5:38 PM ]
It seems to me that the two positions of greatest need are FS and NT. Those are the positions we have lost in free agency, as well as losing a back up NT as well. Dorsey is an all around DL who can play the nose but that would leave us dependent on Ian Williams or Jerod-Eddy as a back up nose. Fleming will fight for an OLB spot, along with Johnson. An upgrade there would be good.

On offense the loss of Walker makes a #2 TE a priority and I would really like to know if Kilgore or Looney is a capable center prospect/back up.

So my draft list would be:

FS, NT, TE, C, OLB, and BPA---in that order. I would really be interested in Woodson for next year to groom a rookie safety.

Low snaps became an issue when Kaepernick took over for Smith. Coincidence? Crabtree recently talked about the split on the team and that may have been a part of it. The low snaps seems just too consistent...didn't hit the ground but made CK reach low to slow his drop, or movement of any kind. If that was the case then Goodwin could easily be a casualty of the cap and Center would move up the draft need list.

There is so much we do not know about the workings of the team that trying to guess what they will do is quite futile...but so much fun!
few things NC, McCoy's figure is $1.5M, and McBath is $630,000 Other wise, good work.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
few things NC, McCoy's figure is $1.5M, and McBath is $630,000 Other wise, good work.

Updated! Thanks, as always, AB!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
few things NC, McCoy's figure is $1.5M, and McBath is $630,000 Other wise, good work.

Updated! Thanks, as always, AB!

No problem bud, any time.
dtg, at 31 and #34, BPA is going to be DL, DL. If we want a tier 1 FS it will probably be in the #15-20 slots. Recall I am down with 3 of 5 teams making the unpardonable cardinal sin of making a Qb their #1 pick or drafting up after their #1 pick for a second first rd pick. Someone from the cards, Jax, eagles, buff, maybe even Cleveland is going to make that awful choice and I believe our #31 becomes #28, and our #34 becomes #31 w/r/to the non QB players. Still to snag the best FS, it would require a substantial and expensive move up. Playing BPA only, we draft two DLs at #31 and #34. Teams drafting good 2nd and 3rd rd Qbs in first rd will NOT be drafting BPA, but with their hearts....never a good ploy. Should we draft 2 DLs as our first and 2nd picks, our DL will be fixed as well as our OL for 5-6 yrs to come. We could do a lot worse.
Agree with you Paso, but I think they may bring in a vet FS or convert Culliver, who I think is really up to it, and then drafting a guy who can be groomed. Then they are free to take a couple of DL with the first two picks. Of course, all this could be blown up if some teams don't play fair...surprise everyone by jumping on the DLmen early. But then perhaps a FS slips through!
dtg, look down the list of DLs of virtually every NFL team. Heck there isn't anybody who couldn't stand to use a starting DL. Difference with us is along with FS THAT(DL) is our glaring weakness, and WAS our glaring weakness the last 4 games of the yr. Having two starters to rotate in there would have been a different ballgame for us in every game. We had the ability to crush the opponents Qb or at least cause hurries, knockdowns, or sacks multiple times....except our 3 DL rushers and Aldon were worn down, and worse, hurt. Man we desperately needed 2 more DLs last yr. I agree completely with filling out our OL and nailing those guys downs for next 3-4 yrs. Now we need to do the same for the DL. Sure would make our D backfield a lot better with new meat rotating in every other series or play or whatever fangio decides upon. Granted it would be weird to draft 2 starting DLs virtually both in first rd,( which as noted can happen if 3 of 6 teams, Jets, buff, cards, eagles, Jax, raids, make the killer mistake of drafting a Qb in 1st rd when they are very good 2nd or 3rd rd picks.) If that happens, and i'm betting it will , we get that much closer to that FS(if TB decides it is worth the price in picks).

If not, and everyone plays nice and gets their BPA according to greater need, we get 2 DLs drafting BPA. We did the very same thing with 2 first rd OLs BPA and that worked out just fine. As for your idea of converting cully or get a vet FS and drafting a project FS later on, it could sure happen that way. I have NO idea what TB and JH have planned based on what is on board at the time, nor do I have any kind of feel for their ratings on half a dozen other FS, essentially all pretty closely rated. My hope is for trent to cone down on 4 guys, all starters, and get them all. I sure hope 2 of 'em are DLs. Our experience with drafting 3rd and 4th rd OGs, OTs, and DLs, and "coaching them up" has not been good. If we NEED that starter on the O or D lines, we need to draft starters, not projects.
Updated with TE Cameron Morrah. After all of Baalke's comments yesterday, anyone thinking about changing their mock drafts...order of top picks...picks overall? To recap go here to post #800: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/172329-nnamdi-asomugha-is-a-49er/page54/
[ Edited by NCommand on Apr 18, 2013 at 9:57 AM ]
So NC, how does the signing of Cam Morrah affect team needs? Is he a replacement for Delanie Walker? They have similar builds. Morrah is a great athlete and was highly ranked coming out of high school.

So if you take a guy 6'3" 250 lbs with good speed, blocking skills, and hands, and put him into similar roles as Delanie filled--TE, H Back, WR, FB, etc., will he have a similar impact? Round peg in a round hole?

How will this affect the draft? Is TE now a lesser need--4th or 5th round prospect instead of 2nd or 3rd? Will they still look for a guy who's a bigger red zone target?

I really like this signing--especially since he's a Cal guy. Golden Bears!
[ Edited by oldninerdude on Apr 18, 2013 at 9:00 AM ]
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
So NC, how does the signing of Cam Morrah affect team needs? Is he a replacement for Delanie Walker? They have similar builds. Morrah is a great athlete and was highly ranked coming out of high school.

So if you take a guy 6'3" 250 lbs with good speed, blocking skills, and hands, and put him into similar roles as Delanie filled--TE, H Back, WR, FB, etc., will he have a similar impact? Round peg in a round hole?

How will this affect the draft? Is TE now a lesser need--4th or 5th round prospect instead of 2nd or 3rd? Will they still look for a guy who's a bigger red zone target?

I really like this signing--especially since he's a Cal guy. Golden Bears!

These are some of the questions I raise as well esp. after many of comments Baalke made yesterday. Of all the interviews, HE is one interview that I listen to very closely b/c he has telegraphed some things to me in the past (e.g. Aldon Smith). Other things that help to decipher this code that is pre-draft predictions are related to players and esp. positions we host, interview, watch workouts, etc.

So to your question, this could be another DW (hopefully with better hands and concentration). That said, I still believe we'll end up taking a very tall 6'7" RZ threat as well. B/c the bottom line is, if VD goes down, that's a critical piece to our entire offense. Also, with our "Stanford offense" two TE's are used and used a lot as we've seen with VD and DW. But if we add a dynamic threat, both out of the Q in the backfield together, one at the LOS the other out wide, both at the LOS, etc. Roman will have endless "formations" to use and we all know how big he is on creating confusion and mismatches with formations. So, in short, I still think we pick a higher TE, probably a 3rd round pick or later...Kelce (6'5") or Toilolo (6'8")? Then again, they could go for Ertz (6'5") if he falls as well (ala Fleener) and go DE and FS later?

Either way this is more competition.

According to AB:

Tight Ends:
1 Tyler Eifert*, Notre Dame
2 Zach Ertz*, Stanford
3 Gavin Escobar*, San Diego State
4 Dion Sims*, Michigan State
5 Travis Kelce, Cincinnati
6 Vance McDonald, Rice
7 Kyle Juszczyk, Harvard
8 Levine Toilolo*, Stanford
9 Chris Gragg, Arkansas
10 Jordan Reed*, Florida
11 Ryan Otten, San Jose State
12 Nick Kasa, Colorado
13 Joseph Fauria, UCLA
14 Michael Williams, Alabama
15 Jake Stoneburner, Ohio State
[ Edited by NCommand on Apr 18, 2013 at 10:00 AM ]