The Baalke Effect...

Now what is Baalke's deal?

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/baalke-wishes-sam-had-gone-team-outside-nfc-west

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Here's the thing about the wideouts. We only got Johnson today... which that's cool and I'm happy about it. Buuuuut...

This team looks to draft TWELVE players. We don't need twelve players.

Now what I would have liked? The 49ers move up and take a WR in Round 1. Now, I know Baalke looked into trading and no team bit, so those are the breaks. Buuuuut...

This team keeps band-aid'ing the WR position, and the latest is Stevie Johnson. Now could the 49ers roll with Crabs, Boldin, & Johnson for the next 2-3 years? Sure, they could, but we know Boldin is gone soon and Lloyd is just insurance.

So your confidence in this situation basically comes down to Quinton Patton. I personally don't think he'll be anything more than a #3... a good #3 like Harry Douglas, but a #3 nevertheless. So that means the future of your team is... Crabtree and Johnson?

I don't love that. I don't love not having a franchise WR waiting in the wings. The Green Bay Packers have perfected this over the years. They took Jordy Nelson & James Jones when they already had Greg Jennings & Donald Driver. Then they took Randall Cobb when they had all five guys. Now they took Devante Adams with Jordy & Cobb & Brandon Boykin still on the roster.

See how they stack their talent at the position? They are never in need because they invest early.

But the 49ers have no investments besides Patton. So again, if you REALLY believe in Patton, then I guess you don't think we need anyone.

Short term, I'm OK with it. Long term? Once Boldin is gone, things could get weird.

Completely agree!!

This is the only part about Baalke that I don't get. Everyone said it was a deep draft for WR, there were all types of WRs out there, there really were only 3 WR out of our reach, so why not take one or two and develop them?

I like Ellington, but I would have taken grabbed one or two more and passed on Stevie Johnson. What is it about WR that is so difficult for our team to evaluate? I know Baalke sticks to his board, and always seems to get more picks, which is good, but there never seems to be any kind of conviction in going up to grab a WR. So they liked Beckam. Great. Who else? Are they really telling us no one else was worth it? Isn't everyone else telling us it was exactly the opposite?

I

The 49ers and Packers have two very different draft philosophies IMO. GB continuously drafts WRs in the 2nd and 3rd rd, so they have a nice young WR core every year. However, it leaves them severely lacking in depth in other areas. It has cost them the past several years, lacking quality talent on the o-line and defense.

So while some people here are jealous over their WR situation, I guarantee you they are jealous of our entire roster. Our approach has resulted in a much better roster, despite them having a Top 3 QB. We've owned them repeatedly. I could care less about their WR depth.

why do so many of you b***h about our history of drafting wrs? we already have crabs, boldin, johnson, lloyd, patton, ellington and vd to catch passes. who gives a f**k that we can't draft a #1 wr in the 4th f**king round. we are stacked and ready to rock and roll.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
why do so many of you b***h about our history of drafting wrs? we already have crabs, boldin, johnson, lloyd, patton, ellington and vd to catch passes. who gives a f**k that we can't draft a #1 wr in the 4th f**king round. we are stacked and ready to rock and roll.

It's funny because people are pointing to GB, but I like our WR depth better. I'll take Crab/Boldin/Johnson over any 3-man combination GB has any day of the week.

So we already established drafting WRs is a crapshoot, winning 20% of the time. ( it sure seems less than that, but...). So how many WRs did baalke have in camp immediately after the draft last yr? It was a bunch, but either 9 or 10 I can remember. Granted some were not here long, but nonetheless, baalke had a good look at maybe as many as 10, but 8 for sure. How many stuck? Yeah, just a couple, and patton really is the remnants. So how many WRs did we end up with? Well Ellington in draft, and 2 by trade, both slot potential and Stevie can be deep threat besides. No guessing on these guys, everybody has seen the 2 of them play in the NFL. College talent is immaterial. They ARE NFL WRs. And we got Stevie for basically nothing by the time Trent had the dust settle. Now is that better, equal or worse than getting a WR at #18 and trading half our picks to get him...and then all we have is a heralded college player. Advantage? Baalke.

Ok CBs. Baalke gets his man at #30, smallish, but very good. NO idea if he makes the squad but would bet heavy on it. My guess prior to draft was move up to get the best CB baalke liked and then get another(NC politely talked me out of it)....burning more picks and virtually our draft would be over. We would not have answered our Center need, nor our ILB potential need if things go south for aldon &/or don't go well post op for Navarro. We get another Frank Gore in Hyde, having our RB in the pipeline, and I bet he gets some touches this yr. Oops, we got too many RBs. Well JH and Trent both have said LMJ isn't going anywhere, so bet on him being the one going. Also makes me wonder if lattimore is going to turn out ok from his surgery. We get an OG, altho has an ACL, so another OL in the pipeline.

What happens then? Well we get 3 more CBs meaning 1 out of every three picks of the 12 was a CB/S (ok, DB). 1 out of 3. That is amazing. I got my CBs back to back almost, but just way later than planned. They may be worthless, they may stick. It may also turn out that our #2 CB is already on the squad, but sitting right now at #3-6. Maybe trent knows we have a starter already besides Brock. But, with drafting 1/3 of our picks as DBs tells me that those CBs in the #3-6 spots are NOT showing dominance, and so we bring in 4 more DBs(actually only 3 CBs).

Late late, we get more DL, OL, a WR Ellington who has no expectations...if he hits, fantastic. If not, trent fixed up WR with trades, not picks. WE get a late QB, altho we now have nobody who can take over if kap goes down, esp against elites. That is a bit of a worry, but knock on wood, kap has good hx of non injury.

Put that all together and then you know trent will have 5 or 6 more UDFA CBs and same # of WRs in camp for a look see.

So I ask: How in the hell could one have done a better job at all our needs with more studs than we ended up with? To me it would seem tough to beat baalke's draft and approach, tho some wanted that hotshot WR , others wanted that hotshot top CB. Well other teams got those guys and baalke just made this team way better, with a chance at perfection if one of the 3 CBs hits or Ellington hits. The ILB was rated about 20 slots higher, so this was value. Same for Hyde, ranked about 34-ish. Value. Center is solid and would have to be an improvement on Goodwin, and also can play guard...oops, adios Snyder, and we know and want Goodwin gone.

If you are unhappy with this ,ok, that is your opinion. But we done good AND we went into draft with 43 locks (AB 81) and then our 2 new WRs makes 45. OUr first pick is certain to be a lock. We will upgrade at RB by a huge margin, ILB possible need as noted above...but trent has it covered. My only concern is Qb, but I have to assume JH feels gabbert can win the uncontested games but lose to elites...but kap has good hx of not being injured. I wish we had a solid backup, but you can't have everything.

Maybe not perfect, but certainly in the 93 to 95% range, or a strong A. Oddly, a guy not friendly to us, Mel kipper thot baalke killed it by end of day 2, and gave us best grade in draft. Who wants to argue with that?

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
why do so many of you b***h about our history of drafting wrs? we already have crabs, boldin, johnson, lloyd, patton, ellington and vd to catch passes. who gives a f**k that we can't draft a #1 wr in the 4th f**king round. we are stacked and ready to rock and roll.

It's funny because people are pointing to GB, but I like our WR depth better. I'll take Crab/Boldin/Johnson over any 3-man combination GB has any day of the week.

Not just GB, but I'd prefer our 3 vs most teams' 3 WR set. We already know Crabs/Boldin/Johnson are proven and good to go... what if (just what if) Patton shines, Lloyd forces us to keep him because he proves to still have "it" in camp/preseason.

Then, there's Ellington, what if he shines in camp/preseason. And Osgood (ST star)? Baldwin is practically gone (imo)... however, what if he shines in camp/preseason, what are we gonna do?

It's a very good problem to have.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Maybe not perfect, but certainly in the 93 to 95% range, or a strong A. Oddly, a guy not friendly to us, Mel kipper thot baalke killed it by end of day 2, and gave us best grade in draft. Who wants to argue with that?

I agree. It was a solid draft. I can see some folks who don't know the kind of offense and defense we run - will get frustrated that some of the sexy draft picks were drafted by other teams, but those who have a bit more knowledge will be satisfied with the draft.

Good solid WR squad now with Stevie and Ellington. Good raw talent at CB with Donatelle ready to shape and mould that rawness into some all pro material. Our run game just got better with our addition of a powerful center, and a powerful short yardage runner that can also be a 20+ carry kind of bruiser of a back. I'm very happy with our draft, and just taking a quick peek at the Seadderall draft, I'm not impressed with their picks. However, it's nothing that a good dose of PED's can't fix.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
So we already established drafting WRs is a crapshoot, winning 20% of the time. ( it sure seems less than that, but...). So how many WRs did baalke have in camp immediately after the draft last yr? It was a bunch, but either 9 or 10 I can remember. Granted some were not here long, but nonetheless, baalke had a good look at maybe as many as 10, but 8 for sure. How many stuck? Yeah, just a couple, and patton really is the remnants. So how many WRs did we end up with? Well Ellington in draft, and 2 by trade, both slot potential and Stevie can be deep threat besides. No guessing on these guys, everybody has seen the 2 of them play in the NFL. College talent is immaterial. They ARE NFL WRs. And we got Stevie for basically nothing by the time Trent had the dust settle. Now is that better, equal or worse than getting a WR at #18 and trading half our picks to get him...and then all we have is a heralded college player. Advantage? Baalke.

Ok CBs. Baalke gets his man at #30, smallish, but very good. NO idea if he makes the squad but would bet heavy on it. My guess prior to draft was move up to get the best CB baalke liked and then get another(NC politely talked me out of it)....burning more picks and virtually our draft would be over. We would not have answered our Center need, nor our ILB potential need if things go south for aldon &/or don't go well post op for Navarro. We get another Frank Gore in Hyde, having our RB in the pipeline, and I bet he gets some touches this yr. Oops, we got too many RBs. Well JH and Trent both have said LMJ isn't going anywhere, so bet on him being the one going. Also makes me wonder if lattimore is going to turn out ok from his surgery. We get an OG, altho has an ACL, so another OL in the pipeline.

What happens then? Well we get 3 more CBs meaning 1 out of every three picks of the 12 was a CB/S (ok, DB). 1 out of 3. That is amazing. I got my CBs back to back almost, but just way later than planned. They may be worthless, they may stick. It may also turn out that our #2 CB is already on the squad, but sitting right now at #3-6. Maybe trent knows we have a starter already besides Brock. But, with drafting 1/3 of our picks as DBs tells me that those CBs in the #3-6 spots are NOT showing dominance, and so we bring in 4 more DBs(actually only 3 CBs).

Late late, we get more DL, OL, a WR Ellington who has no expectations...if he hits, fantastic. If not, trent fixed up WR with trades, not picks. WE get a late QB, altho we now have nobody who can take over if kap goes down, esp against elites. That is a bit of a worry, but knock on wood, kap has good hx of non injury.

Put that all together and then you know trent will have 5 or 6 more UDFA CBs and same # of WRs in camp for a look see.

So I ask: How in the hell could one have done a better job at all our needs with more studs than we ended up with? To me it would seem tough to beat baalke's draft and approach, tho some wanted that hotshot WR , others wanted that hotshot top CB. Well other teams got those guys and baalke just made this team way better, with a chance at perfection if one of the 3 CBs hits or Ellington hits. The ILB was rated about 20 slots higher, so this was value. Same for Hyde, ranked about 34-ish. Value. Center is solid and would have to be an improvement on Goodwin, and also can play guard...oops, adios Snyder, and we know and want Goodwin gone.

If you are unhappy with this ,ok, that is your opinion. But we done good AND we went into draft with 43 locks (AB 81) and then our 2 new WRs makes 45. OUr first pick is certain to be a lock. We will upgrade at RB by a huge margin, ILB possible need as noted above...but trent has it covered. My only concern is Qb, but I have to assume JH feels gabbert can win the uncontested games but lose to elites...but kap has good hx of not being injured. I wish we had a solid backup, but you can't have everything.

Maybe not perfect, but certainly in the 93 to 95% range, or a strong A. Oddly, a guy not friendly to us, Mel kipper thot baalke killed it by end of day 2, and gave us best grade in draft. Who wants to argue with that?

Very nice breakdown, doc. Well said.

This draft lacked the big splash people may have been expecting, like trading up into the teens for a WR or CB. But the fact of the matter is every starting position on this team was secure, with the exception of slot corner, and Ward is a dynamite slot corner with the skills to be much more in the future.

The rest of the picks went to giving this team the type of depth that, quite frankly, is almost unheard of. This team is ridiculously stacked. Can't wait for this season to start so we can whoop the league's ass.

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
why do so many of you b***h about our history of drafting wrs? we already have crabs, boldin, johnson, lloyd, patton, ellington and vd to catch passes. who gives a f**k that we can't draft a #1 wr in the 4th f**king round. we are stacked and ready to rock and roll.

It's funny because people are pointing to GB, but I like our WR depth better. I'll take Crab/Boldin/Johnson over any 3-man combination GB has any day of the week.

Not just GB, but I'd prefer our 3 vs most teams' 3 WR set. We already know Crabs/Boldin/Johnson are proven and good to go... what if (just what if) Patton shines, Lloyd forces us to keep him because he proves to still have "it" in camp/preseason.

Then, there's Ellington, what if he shines in camp/preseason. And Osgood (ST star)? Baldwin is practically gone (imo)... however, what if he shines in camp/preseason, what are we gonna do?

Absolutely. You'd be hard pressed to find a better trio anywhere in the league. 3 guys who are 1,000 yard WRs very recently.

Originally posted by LVJay:

Not just GB, but I'd prefer our 3 vs most teams' 3 WR set. We already know Crabs/Boldin/Johnson are proven and good to go... what if (just what if) Patton shines, Lloyd forces us to keep him because he proves to still have "it" in camp/preseason.

Then, there's Ellington, what if he shines in camp/preseason. And Osgood (ST star)? Baldwin is practically gone (imo)... however, what if he shines in camp/preseason, what are we gonna do?

That's the Harbaugh philosophy and it's pretty much bullet proof. He Gets a lot of good athletes at a position and let them compete. No need for any fancy shmancy Jimmy Johnson psyche job on any of these players -- because it's really simple, if any of them get lazy and perform less than their best, their competition is so good, they won't make the 53 squad. Take a guy like Baldwin - if he doesn't step it up, he's gone. He's no dummy, he can tune into the NFL network just like we can. He knows he's in for a dogfight to keep his job this year, same with Lloyd and Patton.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Very nice breakdown, doc. Well said.

This draft lacked the big splash people may have been expecting, like trading up into the teens for a WR or CB. But the fact of the matter is every starting position on this team was secure, with the exception of slot corner, and Ward is a dynamite slot corner with the skills to be much more in the future.

The rest of the picks went to giving this team the type of depth that, quite frankly, is almost unheard of. This team is ridiculously stacked. Can't wait for this season to start so we can whoop the league's ass.

Nickel D has been a sore point for a very long time. Practically for the last three years in fact. I think going into this pre-season, we now have gotten an upgrade on the nickel D. The DB's we drafted (four of them) will give the veterans a run for their money and solidify that Nickel D. Hopefully the retooled nickel D will stand up to the elite passing attacks in the playoffs and get us a 6th Lombardi and I can go to the .Nut boards and discuss which is better 1 or 6.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Absolutely. You'd be hard pressed to find a better trio anywhere in the league. 3 guys who are 1,000 yard WRs very recently.

Atlanta may have Roddy/Julio, but their # 3 (Harry Douglas) is behind ours... what other team is out there (Denver maybe, I dunno)

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's the Harbaugh philosophy and it's pretty much bullet proof. He Gets a lot of good athletes at a position and let them compete. No need for any fancy shmancy Jimmy Johnson psyche job on any of these players -- because it's really simple, if any of them get lazy and perform less than their best, their competition is so good, they won't make the 53 squad. Take a guy like Baldwin - if he doesn't step it up, he's gone. He's no dummy, he can tune into the NFL network just like we can. He knows he's in for a dogfight to keep his job this year, same with Lloyd and Patton.

I love it. I hope they all do damn good in TC and preseason so that it's too hard for us to decide who goes bye bye. Who knows, HarBaalke might even get something in return for having to depart with one or two of the WRs...

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
why do so many of you b***h about our history of drafting wrs? we already have crabs, boldin, johnson, lloyd, patton, ellington and vd to catch passes. who gives a f**k that we can't draft a #1 wr in the 4th f**king round. we are stacked and ready to rock and roll.

It's funny because people are pointing to GB, but I like our WR depth better. I'll take Crab/Boldin/Johnson over any 3-man combination GB has any day of the week.

Not just GB, but I'd prefer our 3 vs most teams' 3 WR set. We already know Crabs/Boldin/Johnson are proven and good to go... what if (just what if) Patton shines, Lloyd forces us to keep him because he proves to still have "it" in camp/preseason.

Then, there's Ellington, what if he shines in camp/preseason. And Osgood (ST star)? Baldwin is practically gone (imo)... however, what if he shines in camp/preseason, what are we gonna do?

Baldwin is gone. I said it all spring, only way he makes this roster is if he shows he can be a 24 year old version of Kassim Osgood and save the team about a $1 million.

Right now the team has to decide if they think having Lloyd, who does not play ST, as emergency depth outweighs Osgood, who does play ST.

Crabtree, Boldin, Johnson, Patton, Ellington, Osgood / Lloyd - EVERYBODY ELSE that is the pecking order going into OTAs.

Originally posted by sfout:

Baldwin is gone. I said it all spring, only way he makes this roster is if he shows he can be a 24 year old version of Kassim Osgood and save the team about a $1 million.

Right now the team has to decide if they think having Lloyd, who does not play ST, as emergency depth outweighs Osgood, who does play ST.

Crabtree, Boldin, Johnson, Patton, Ellington, Osgood / Lloyd - EVERYBODY ELSE that is the pecking order going into OTAs.

While I agree in principle with what you are saying, I still think he's talented enough to make this team, if he makes some plays in pre-season. He still has great size and athletic talents. A poor man's version of Mike Evans, if you will. Man I'm still peeved we couldn't trade up for him or Odell. But yeah, if he plays like he played last Year, he's pretty much gone.