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Whose the better player, Willis or Bowman?

Whose the better player, Willis or Bowman?

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Good god will this offseason ever end!

x Infinity

Both are great and make great plays consistently.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Good god will this offseason ever end!

x Infinity

Both are great and make great plays consistently.

So you think the small distinction I made in this thread today is fallacious?
Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Good god will this offseason ever end!

x Infinity

Both are great and make great plays consistently.

So you think the small distinction I made in this thread today is fallacious?

I think that unless you're in the huddle and know the playcall & defensive assignments, than any fans opinion on the subject equals the sum of jack + sh*t.
Originally posted by 5280High:
I think that unless you're in the huddle and know the playcall & defensive assignments, than any fans opinion on the subject equals the sum of jack + sh*t.

  • buck
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Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by 5280High:
I think that unless you're in the huddle and know the playcall & defensive assignments, than any fans opinion on the subject equals the sum of jack + sh*t.




And I am willing to acknowledge that I lack the theoretical and technical skills to be able to differentiate the skill level of our All Pro line backing corps.

In the world of music, I can tell what music I like, but I have no way of accurately assessing the professional skills of a musician, much less of making any realistic comparative analysis of two quality musicians. I understand my limits.

I know a ton more about football than I do music, but I will concede I lack not only the requisite information but also the refined knowledge to independently determine if Willis is a better player than Smith or if Bowman is a better player than Willis.
[ Edited by buck on Jun 30, 2013 at 10:55 PM ]
Originally posted by dyNASTYmode:
Not the harder hitter or faster player in the 40....better player

There's a reason Bowman posted more tackles.

Much respect to #52 but I think #53 gets disrespected not being recognized as the best LB in the league.

Just noticed this is post 53


C'mon really? This is basic football knowledge guys.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2008/5/13/508528/so-what-exactly-is-the-ted

Just as Takeo Spikes did before him, Willis normally takes on the Ted position and enables Bowman to use his athleticism and agility to shoot gaps and have clear lanes to QB's and HB's. Like most true tackling MLB's Willis has trouble turning his hips and covering the more shifty offensive players, but other than that......Willis is the better MLB. But Bowman is not too far behind him.
[ Edited by Puckdaddy on Jun 30, 2013 at 11:17 PM ]
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by 5280High:
I think that unless you're in the huddle and know the playcall & defensive assignments, than any fans opinion on the subject equals the sum of jack + sh*t.


Well why dont we just shut down the sight then? Almost every single thread is amateur speculation.

And I dont need to know the play call to say a guy missed a tackle (when he was clearly aiming for him) or failed to defend a pass. Its not like I'm assigning blame to Willis or Bowman for blown coverage.
[ Edited by TheGhostofOak on Jul 1, 2013 at 7:06 AM ]
Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by 5280High:
I think that unless you're in the huddle and know the playcall & defensive assignments, than any fans opinion on the subject equals the sum of jack + sh*t.


Well why dont we just shut down the sight then? Almost every single thread is amateur speculation.

And I dont need to know the play call to say a guy missed a tackle (when he was clearly aiming for him) or failed to defend a pass. Its not like I'm assigning blame to Willis or Bowman for blown coverage.

Thats not what im insinuating, but there are some statements riddled throughout this thread that point to things like tackles or other stats to make a posters argument, but stats without context (like knowing the play call) are meaningless.

If I had to choose one I would go with Willis based on him being a probowler/all pro every year he has been in the league. But I dont want to take anything away from Bowman because I think he has the ability to get probowl/all pro honors for the next 8 years too. It's a great situation/argument to have.
Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
I wanted to start my own thread on this, but since I'm supposedly a noob, it wont let me.

I know this forum is pretty split between who's the best LB on the Niners roster (Willis vs Bowman), but after rewatching the season I've come to a conclusion. Bowman is a better coverage LB, but Willis is a better tackler. If you watch the film, though Bowman doesn't cover as much as Willis, when he does, he rarely has a pass completed on him. Willis on the other hand gets passed on, but he makes the immediate tackle. The other thing that is very obvious to me is that Willis is a stronger more aggressive and sure tackler than Bowman. I've seen Bowman miss tackles, but I can't say the same for Willis. Bowman is good, but he does occassionally let guys get around him. Dont get me wrong, its not like he's getting burned all the time, but if Willis has a 99.8 percent tackle rate, Bowman might be a 99. The difference in tackle quality is about as much as the difference in coverage quality between Willis and Bowman. So here is my question. Wouldn't it make sense to have them flip assigniments? Bowman should be keying on the TE and zone coverage, while Willis should focus on whoever comes out of the backfield. If we did that, I think our defense would be even better.



Anyone with a little knowledge on the subject have an opinion (outside of the "whatever the coaches think")?

I know I'm coming off desperate here (spaming even), but does anyone have an opinion on my above comment? Am I the only one to make this observation?
Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
I wanted to start my own thread on this, but since I'm supposedly a noob, it wont let me.

I know this forum is pretty split between who's the best LB on the Niners roster (Willis vs Bowman), but after rewatching the season I've come to a conclusion. Bowman is a better coverage LB, but Willis is a better tackler. If you watch the film, though Bowman doesn't cover as much as Willis, when he does, he rarely has a pass completed on him. Willis on the other hand gets passed on, but he makes the immediate tackle. The other thing that is very obvious to me is that Willis is a stronger more aggressive and sure tackler than Bowman. I've seen Bowman miss tackles, but I can't say the same for Willis. Bowman is good, but he does occassionally let guys get around him. Dont get me wrong, its not like he's getting burned all the time, but if Willis has a 99.8 percent tackle rate, Bowman might be a 99. The difference in tackle quality is about as much as the difference in coverage quality between Willis and Bowman. So here is my question. Wouldn't it make sense to have them flip assigniments? Bowman should be keying on the TE and zone coverage, while Willis should focus on whoever comes out of the backfield. If we did that, I think our defense would be even better.



Anyone with a little knowledge on the subject have an opinion (outside of the "whatever the coaches think")?

I know I'm coming off desperate here (spaming even), but does anyone have an opinion on my above comment? Am I the only one to make this observation?

to answer your question...They do that already
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
to answer your question...They do that already

I know Fangio in theory wants to run a "mirror" type of defensive scheme like Manusky, but it seem to me that most of the time Willis is in coverage and Bowman covers the RB. Rarely do I see Bowman in coverage and Willis on the RB to start. They may flip assigments, but I'm not sure what triggers it.

Do you know what the general assigments are if its a run vs. a pass? Maybe it doenst make a difference in the run game, but I'd like to see Bowman cover in the pass more and Willis shadow the RB. At the moment it seems the reverse...
[ Edited by TheGhostofOak on Jul 1, 2013 at 9:20 AM ]
Willis was a beast before Bowman got there, and before we had a great defense. So, if that means anything, ill go with Willis.
  • buck
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These numbers might be relevant to this discussion; but maybe not.

2012

PFF Overall Rating/total snaps

Patrick Willis—23 (1007)
Aldon Smith—17.6 (1025)
NaVorro Bowman—11.3 (1024)
Ahmad Brooks—9.8 (997)

PFF Run Defense Rating/Run Snaps

Patrick Willis—13.3 (397)
Ahmad Brooks—11.2 (392)
NaVorro Bowman—10.9 (399)
Aldon Smith—7.8 (394)

PFF Coverage Rating/Coverage Snaps

Patrick Willis—9.1 (539)
NaVorro Bowman—2.4 (561)
Ahmad Brooks—2.4(113)
Aldon Smith—minus 0.9 (93)

PFF Pass Rush Rating/Rush Snaps

Aldon Smith—14 (538)
Patrick Willis—0(71)
NaVorro Bowman—minus 0.6 (64)
Ahmad Brooks—minus 2.8(492)
https://www.profootballfocus.com/data/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2011&teamid=28&stats=d&stype=r&playerid=
Originally posted by MntIdaGold:
The reason Bowman has more tackles that last two years is because the offenses are focused on stopping Willis first. Either by lineman attempting to block him or schemes designed to send Willis in coverage has more to do with why Bowman leads in tackles than Bowman's skill level.

Very true, even Willis and the opposition have said this.
Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
Bowman gets more tackles because Willis gets more attention. They'll have a player maybe 2 at times just to try to get a block on Willis. I remember against the Ravens listening to the sound FX, they were telling Leach to get on Willis every play he was in.

Stats don't mean everything. Bowman isn't a better player if he has more tackles than Willis. A corner isn't a better corner if he has more INTs than Revis.

I do love Bowman though. Dude played his heart out in the post season. PWilly is the best mlb in the league, Bowman is the 2nd best.

Again, very true. That's the inconvenient truth