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switch to a 4-3

Originally posted by ninerfan1984:
I was thinking now with Dorsey, Carradine, Dial, and Lemeniore we have even more flexibilty up front 3/4 or 4/3 is very doable withour set of DLmen and rush LBs.

it's nice to have the versatility to throw different looks at a defense ...2014 is looking so bright I gotta wear shades
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I thought we got rid of Dorsey years ago?

Originally posted by cools:


Could we see somthing like this ala Seifert? kind of a cross between 3-4 and 4-3 without needing a true 3-4 type NT

The inside guys playing 1 and 3 tech, A.Smith as the Elephant, Willis shines with the freedom as a Wil

This defense was great. We lack the big bodied run plugger at MLB to run it. Hacksaw, Millin, Plummer, we don't have that body on the roster. I think Bowmen would eventually find himself injured trying to stuff up the middle. I would hate to see him or Willis spend to much time on the sideline.
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
5-2-4 Front would be effective for getting extra pressure without giving up vs the pass:

Aldon Smith___Justin Smith___Glen Dorsey___Ray Mac___Ahmad Brooks

Pat Willis____________Navarro Bowman

Isn't this a little light up front?

275 + 285 + 295 + 290 + 240

If we play that a lot won't we get hurt bruised and dinged?

Like last year?
VERY interesting thread for me. That diagram closely resembles the 4-3 Under scheme that I'd been an advocate of for years. I think it could be an outstanding implementation. (meaning, the 4-3 elephant now vs the 4-3 Under that Pete Carroll employs... since we didn't necessarily focus on acquiring that 1-tech that we would badly need) Maybe we have that in Ian Williams or possibly 5th round pick Dial... but it's hard to say.

Anyway, I think we have the personnel to kick arse with this Seifert reincarnation... and I think Fangio's experience can pull off just about any scheme adjustment.

One note - We'd likely have to still use a DL like Ian W. or Dial as the 1-tech run stuffer in more obvious run situations against teams with power backs. RayMac has the versatility to play that LE spot on given situations where we want to mix in "more beef" inside at LDT.

I would regard Dorsey as the 3-tech backup at RDT that gives Justin more rest. Justin would still be "the man", and play most downs... but Dorsey could help keep Justin fresh and prolong his career.

Aldon would be the same (or better) beast as that RE/Elephant... with Carradine getting some reps to help Aldon when needed. (then Carradine bulks up through the year and next offseason to prepare for more RDT action behind Justin)

This gives our stud ILBs more room to roam free and clean up. Brooks weighs around 255 and is in great shape... much improved athleticism. He would be an excellent SLB playing closer to the line. He stuffs the run and funnels runners back inside well already, and is quicker now to handle the short zones in the pass game. (no, we don't want him running deep with TEs and RBs on seam or wheel routes though) He also has lots of looks running the arc to attack QBs.

This Seifert scheme... just like the Carroll scheme... makes it VERY hard for offenses to block the right side of the line... which happens to possess our 2 best pass rush terrors in Justin and Aldon.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
VERY interesting thread for me. That diagram closely resembles the 4-3 Under scheme that I'd been an advocate of for years. I think it could be an outstanding implementation. (meaning, the 4-3 elephant now vs the 4-3 Under that Pete Carroll employs... since we didn't necessarily focus on acquiring that 1-tech that we would badly need) Maybe we have that in Ian Williams or possibly 5th round pick Dial... but it's hard to say.

Anyway, I think we have the personnel to kick arse with this Seifert reincarnation... and I think Fangio's experience can pull off just about any scheme adjustment.

One note - We'd likely have to still use a DL like Ian W. or Dial as the 1-tech run stuffer in more obvious run situations against teams with power backs. RayMac has the versatility to play that LE spot on given situations where we want to mix in "more beef" inside at LDT.

I would regard Dorsey as the 3-tech backup at RDT that gives Justin more rest. Justin would still be "the man", and play most downs... but Dorsey could help keep Justin fresh and prolong his career.

Aldon would be the same (or better) beast as that RE/Elephant... with Carradine getting some reps to help Aldon when needed. (then Carradine bulks up through the year and next offseason to prepare for more RDT action behind Justin)

This gives our stud ILBs more room to roam free and clean up. Brooks weighs around 255 and is in great shape... much improved athleticism. He would be an excellent SLB playing closer to the line. He stuffs the run and funnels runners back inside well already, and is quicker now to handle the short zones in the pass game. (no, we don't want him running deep with TEs and RBs on seam or wheel routes though) He also has lots of looks running the arc to attack QBs.

This Seifert scheme... just like the Carroll scheme... makes it VERY hard for offenses to block the right side of the line... which happens to possess our 2 best pass rush terrors in Justin and Aldon.


How do you see the snap tallies breaking down with our new personnel? I worry that any configuration that puts the Smiths over 700-800 will result in the same effects as last year.

You didn't mention Lemonier. Don't you see him as a more natural fill in for Aldon than Carradine?
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I'm not sure if you're serious when you say we ran the 4-3 as the nickel and 4-2 as the dime. The 4-3 is not a nickel defense. The nickel is a defense with 5 defensive backs on the field. It's most commonly a 4-2-5, but could also be a 3-3-5, 2-4-5, or 1-5-5. The dime has one more defensive back on the field. It's most commonly a 4-1-6, but could also be a 3-2-6, 2-3-6, or 1-4-6.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
How do you see the snap tallies breaking down with our new personnel? I worry that any configuration that puts the Smiths over 700-800 will result in the same effects as last year.

You didn't mention Lemonier. Don't you see him as a more natural fill in for Aldon than Carradine?

I think you nailed it down fairly well... have not given that a ton of thought, but yeah, Ray and Justin had over 1000 snaps a piece... that has to go down a bit. 700-800 should be fine. Those guys are work-out warriors and in great shape for that.

Lemonier is an interesting guy in the mold of a baby Brooks. He is athletic... can run the arc well... and can come in at DE every now and then in our obvious pass downs. Lem just needs to improve on his run contain. Brooks also had over a thousand snaps... way too many. My hope is that our offense can be more dynamic with putting up points that we don't feel so pressed into that stubborness of 1000+ snaps for these guys.
Obviously who we play will dictate the type of scheme but clearly we finally have some real depth and like-players. For instance:
  • Lemonier is a clone of Brooks - I have little doubt Lemonier will be Brooks' SAM backup and spell him this year there.
  • Dial is an ideal LDE for McDonald
  • Carradine is an ideal RDE/OLB for both Justin and Aldon (more Justin)
  • Dorsey may be able to play better than Sopoaga (more versatile with more potential) and we're hoping Williams is even better than RJF. And don't forget Lamar Divens who's 6'3" 340 pounds (like Ice)

I think there is a strong rotation you can now provide for the DL and OLB's. It lends to various combinations and personnel packages/flexibility now. For instance:
Seattle - power running team with a mobile QB always looking for the deep ball. They loved to run left right at Justin/Aldon.
Formations - Here is a lineup where you may use a bigger NT like Divens to occupy two gaps while also allowing McDonald to shoot gaps on the left side and move Doresy to RDT coupled with Justin (RDE). Then on passing downs, you could bring in Lemonier for Brooks (SAM), Dial for McDonald (LDE), Dorsey (NT), Carradine (RDT) and Aldon (WILL) to contain Wilson and get after him under 3 seconds.
[ Edited by NCommand on May 1, 2013 at 9:53 AM ]
Originally posted by Garcia:
I thought we got rid of Dorsey years ago?


That pic makes me sick!
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Originally posted by Wrathman:
Originally posted by Garcia:
I thought we got rid of Dorsey years ago?


That pic makes me sick!
he was better than cody
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
I think you nailed it down fairly well... have not given that a ton of thought, but yeah, Ray and Justin had over 1000 snaps a piece... that has to go down a bit. 700-800 should be fine. Those guys are work-out warriors and in great shape for that.

Lemonier is an interesting guy in the mold of a baby Brooks. He is athletic... can run the arc well... and can come in at DE every now and then in our obvious pass downs. Lem just needs to improve on his run contain. Brooks also had over a thousand snaps... way too many. My hope is that our offense can be more dynamic with putting up points that we don't feel so pressed into that stubborness of 1000+ snaps for these guys.

Well, a dynamic offense (i.e. quick scoring) generally means more snaps for the D.

I have some sour grapes over the draft because I don't think we were aggressive enough in getting "higher rated" "bulkier" DT/NT types that aren't at a size disadvantage with today's weight inflated OLs.

If Tank can't make it back this year and is on PUP or IR, then I think we are in trouble. What is the plan B? Spend a wad on cut DL's that can still bring it?

Seymour, Canty, etc?

Who is Divens?

And by "trouble" I mean we are at risk for the same grind down effect as last year. And remember both Smiths are coming of singificant surgery.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on May 1, 2013 at 10:26 AM ]
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
I think you nailed it down fairly well... have not given that a ton of thought, but yeah, Ray and Justin had over 1000 snaps a piece... that has to go down a bit. 700-800 should be fine. Those guys are work-out warriors and in great shape for that.

Lemonier is an interesting guy in the mold of a baby Brooks. He is athletic... can run the arc well... and can come in at DE every now and then in our obvious pass downs. Lem just needs to improve on his run contain. Brooks also had over a thousand snaps... way too many. My hope is that our offense can be more dynamic with putting up points that we don't feel so pressed into that stubborness of 1000+ snaps for these guys.

Well, a dynamic offense (i.e. quick scoring) generally means more snaps for the D.

I have some sour grapes over the draft because I don't think we were aggressive enough in getting "higher rated" "bulkier" DT/NT types that aren't at a size disadvantage with today's weight inflated OLs.

If Tank can't make it back this year and is on PUP or IR, then I think we are in trouble. What is the plan B? Spend a wad on cut DL's that can still bring it?

Seymour, Canty, etc?

Who is Divens?

Dynamic offense may be a poor choice of words. What I mean is.. a more potent, scoring offense. But even if it becomes a quick scoring offense? That can still allow for some more backup reps. Think in terms of basketball. The Heat are up 50-30 with a couple minutes in the half left... so Labron and other highy regarded players take a seat to rest up while the bench players take the court and try to maintain as much a lead as they can.

Sounds to me like Carradine will be ready to play soon enough... and we still have some interesting backup options.. unproven still, but hungry to impress. So we'll see. A bit too early to pin such hopes on a 2nd rd rookie this season.
Actually, not being able to get off the field on 3rd down is usually the reason a D gets more snaps. If a defense is playing too many snaps, that means the defense is not stopping the opposing team's offense.
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Well, a dynamic offense (i.e. quick scoring) generally means more snaps for the D.

I have some sour grapes over the draft because I don't think we were aggressive enough in getting "higher rated" "bulkier" DT/NT types that aren't at a size disadvantage with today's weight inflated OLs.

If Tank can't make it back this year and is on PUP or IR, then I think we are in trouble. What is the plan B? Spend a wad on cut DL's that can still bring it?

Seymour, Canty, etc?

Who is Divens?

And by "trouble" I mean we are at risk for the same grind down effect as last year. And remember both Smiths are coming of singificant surgery.

Tank ran a 4.75 40 yard dash at his pro day a few weeks ago. I'd be surprised if he's not 100% when the season starts, let alone in December. Beyond Tank we have Dial, Dorsey, and Ian Williams who signed an extension recently, so they obviously like something about him. Our D-line looks solid heading into camp. I think the defense "wearing down" gets completely blown out of proportion. Yeah they played a lot of downs, but Aldon and Justin tore muscles right around the same time.