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Essential need to redo the O call line of non-communication.

Hey, Harbaugh is the best thing to happen to us in 12 , maybe 15 yrs. He is phenomenal. But he carries a heavy load on his shoulders with a new Qb starting in the last 1/4 of the season, and he has contributed to a fuster cluck with the playcalling chain of command, and delivery thereof. Here are facts:

If roman, harbaugh can't get their play into Kap way earlier than they currently do, this coming Sun nite, Coach H and Kap are going to look like a guy who has to take a leak, but just can't get it out of his pants. I hate to say it that way, but as much as I could stand rewatching the dolphins game, if we play like that against the Pats, they are going to kick our azz around the block and not bother to take names. That game looked so bad against the Fins, that it was embarrassing to watch at times.
Now, maybe roman, then harbaw, have trouble getting the play call in on time. Ok, that's a problem. But with a rook , who is having trouble reading D's quickly, and then seeing if his playcall fits the D, (esp if the D jumps around), Kap CANNOT get the play changed and TO HIS TEAM MATES in time, we come off looking like a bunch of high school girls playing flag football. If Kap/harbaw/roman cannot get their schidt together by Sun, we are going to not just get beaten, we are going to get embarrassed....much like the Texans did, only worse.

There are several ways around this. First , just eliminate roman from calling plays. Then it is a conversation between Coach H and Kap. Kap is green ,a nd needs more time to read the D, and even more pressing , if he changes the play, he can't communicate it to his teammates. Hence another way around this is for Kap to just run the 2 minute O all game long. Let him call his own plays. But this business of Harbaw throwing a bad red flag, and then burning what 3, 4 or was it 5 T.Os. to keep the clock from running out....well....we can't do that in PATS Land and have any hope of winning. So something has to be streamlined, or something has to go. My vote goes for roman....cut off his mike and let him watch the game. Our HC is every bit as good an OC as roman, and i think better.

With Kap, another avenue might be to not let him change any plays...other than a nod at vernon, crbs, delanie, moss, Lamic... that they need to run a quick slant or out if the PATS stack the line with a box 8. Just make it simple for Kap like that. Coach has proven that the current commmunication line of O calls is broken and doesn't work. There are other ideas to fix it, but my choices are as above. Yours?
I've seen a lot of people on here saying this is an easy fix and Kap should get it down quickly. Here's how I see it, Harbaugh has PROBABLY been challenged by Alex and told him "OK if Kap is really better than me he should be able to run the offense as I have been doing it, without any simplifying or hiccups.". That's what I would tell someone if I were to get demoted. Harbaugh is probably trying to prove him wrong. What's new?
[ Edited by paperplanemedia on Dec 12, 2012 at 10:09 AM ]
PLEASE, paperplanemedia - get real!


Pasdoc9er - VERY good post!

Totally agree. The faster we can get that play in and moving, the better off we'll be.

Last Sunday the Pats looked like the best team in football. They spanked, embarrassed and took the whole Houston team to the woodshed.

We have to get it together quickly, the playoffs are right around the corner. In addition to faster play calling we MUST stop killing our own drives with penalties and dropped passes.

This game is a HUGE test.
Why do people keep assuming that the plays were coming in late? Harbaugh stated pretty clearly that the playcalls were coming in time, but that Kap was failing to get the team lined up and in position in time.
Tiny hands, in all deference to Coach Harbaugh, who I love dearly, the plays are getting in just in time for kap to take one look at D and get under center. Then the D shifts, Kap needs to change the call, and boombo. T.O. called by Coach H to save a 5 yd penalty. As we all saw, he thru a flag on a very unimportant play, then called 2 T.Os to save the 5 yrd penalty, and bingo, Fins score on a TD to me that showed his butt and leg hit chalk line just a hair before he caught the ball. Ok, TD and we can't contest it. Why? Because Coach AND Roman are NOT getting the plays in anywhere near in time. Watch Peyton...He walks up to LOS, 22 seconds showing on the clock, looks over the D, the D moves, peyton changes the play....and there are still 10 seconds on the damn clock. Well, we have the antithesis of that here. The call is not coming in anywhere close to when it would give kap enough time. Or for alex, brady, or peyton.

Point is our chain of play calling is screwed up and screwed up worse than badly. Something or somebody has to go, to make the chain of call one helluva lot shorter. I gave my suggestions above, and stick by them. I'm just a fan, but my money is on cutting out roman, Coach H makes the call, and Kap is looking the D over and deciding if play called is good or not. But for goodness sakes, please, Coach, give your project QB some time. YOU are not getting the ball in anywhere near early enough, and against the PATS, that will make for an embarrassing loss...all because you couldn't get your danmed fricking play calling in gear. Jeez guys, give our Qb a chance. Against the Fins, he hardly had any chance. Against the PATs, if Harbaw pulls that stuff off again, we are going to get shellacked.

My other suggestions are above, but other views would be of interest.
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Why do people keep assuming that the plays were coming in late? Harbaugh stated pretty clearly that the playcalls were coming in time, but that Kap was failing to get the team lined up and in position in time.

I dont buy it. There was atleast one time i recall last week, kaep signaling to the sideline wanting the play call. I have a feeling the plays are coming a bit late, and Kaep, who is still young into his career cannot read the defenses as quickly as AS. This is amplifying the somewhat slow playcall.

AS is not Kaep, and Kaep is not AS. They each have strengths and they each have weaknesses. with a young QB you have to adjust so that they have the best possible chance to succeed. The playcalls need to get there quicker. Kaep needs to run the huddle with more of a sense of urgency.

I think it is a mix of both the young QB and a slight delay in getting the play called on time.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
I dont buy it. There was atleast one time i recall last week, kaep signaling to the sideline wanting the play call. I have a feeling the plays are coming a bit late, and Kaep, who is still young into his career cannot read the defenses as quickly as AS. This is amplifying the somewhat slow playcall.

AS is not Kaep, and Kaep is not AS. They each have strengths and they each have weaknesses. with a young QB you have to adjust so that they have the best possible chance to succeed. The playcalls need to get there quicker. Kaep needs to run the huddle with more of a sense of urgency.

I think it is a mix of both the young QB and a slight delay in getting the play called on time.

If that was the case, why would Harbaugh say otherwise? He's got no reason to throw Kap under the bus... or does he?
Not sure if Kap had experience in a no huddle offense at Nevada, but I would explore going to that. Not going to a fast no huddle, just not wasting the time of getting in and out of one.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Tiny hands, in all deference to Coach Harbaugh, who I love dearly, the plays are getting in just in time for kap to take one look at D and get under center. Then the D shifts, Kap needs to change the call, and boombo. T.O. called by Coach H to save a 5 yd penalty. As we all saw, he thru a flag on a very unimportant play, then called 2 T.Os to save the 5 yrd penalty, and bingo, Fins score on a TD to me that showed his butt and leg hit chalk line just a hair before he caught the ball. Ok, TD and we can't contest it. Why? Because Coach AND Roman are NOT getting the plays in anywhere near in time. Watch Peyton...He walks up to LOS, 22 seconds showing on the clock, looks over the D, the D moves, peyton changes the play....and there are still 10 seconds on the damn clock. Well, we have the antithesis of that here. The call is not coming in anywhere close to when it would give kap enough time. Or for alex, brady, or peyton.

Point is our chain of play calling is screwed up and screwed up worse than badly. Something or somebody has to go, to make the chain of call one helluva lot shorter. I gave my suggestions above, and stick by them. I'm just a fan, but my money is on cutting out roman, Coach H makes the call, and Kap is looking the D over and deciding if play called is good or not. But for goodness sakes, please, Coach, give your project QB some time. YOU are not getting the ball in anywhere near early enough, and against the PATS, that will make for an embarrassing loss...all because you couldn't get your danmed fricking play calling in gear. Jeez guys, give our Qb a chance. Against the Fins, he hardly had any chance. Against the PATs, if Harbaw pulls that stuff off again, we are going to get shellacked.

My other suggestions are above, but other views would be of interest.

The bolded is incorrect, if I understand you. All scoring plays are checked by the booth and as such are not challengeable by the coach. Thus, the iffy challenge and the terrible timeout usage up to that point have no bearing on that play.

I agree with he rest of your post, especially as it applies to the thread. I think the play call does come in much later than needed, and there are two instances last game that I can recall where the play clock is rolling past 20 and Kaep is staring at the sideline waiting. One where he and another player are waving their arms to hurry the play call up. That is absolutely inexcusable for the coaching staff. They need to get their ish in gear and give the kid the time he needs to call and adjust the complicated, verbiage heavy, *motion dependent*, west coast playbook. Otherwise they are just asking for mistakes.

*denotes the edited portion.
[ Edited by Igotta on Dec 12, 2012 at 8:51 PM ]
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
I dont buy it. There was atleast one time i recall last week, kaep signaling to the sideline wanting the play call. I have a feeling the plays are coming a bit late, and Kaep, who is still young into his career cannot read the defenses as quickly as AS. This is amplifying the somewhat slow playcall.

AS is not Kaep, and Kaep is not AS. They each have strengths and they each have weaknesses. with a young QB you have to adjust so that they have the best possible chance to succeed. The playcalls need to get there quicker. Kaep needs to run the huddle with more of a sense of urgency.

I think it is a mix of both the young QB and a slight delay in getting the play called on time.

If that was the case, why would Harbaugh say otherwise? He's got no reason to throw Kap under the bus... or does he?

Maybe he is under the assumption that all Qb's can run/should run an Offense as efficiently when they play call comes a bit late, like AS could? Or maybe he is just running his mouth, I like harbaugh, but it ouldnt be the first time? If you recall, there were quite a few of these situations when AS was under center. AS was just more efficient at attempting to get the ball and line adjustents made on time, and beter at calling the TO on time if necissary. But there were still alot of wasted TO's.

Im not saying Kaep doesnt share some of the blame, im just simply saying that Harbaugh/roman share the blame as well. Like i said i think its a combination of both.
[ Edited by IdahoNiner on Dec 12, 2012 at 9:49 PM ]
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Maybe he is under the assumption that all Qb's can run/should run an Offense as efficiently when they play call comes a bit late, like AS could? Or maybe he is just running his mouth, I like harbaugh, but it ouldnt be the first time? If you recall, there were quite a few of these situations when AS was under center. AS was just more efficient at attempting to get the ball and line adjustents made on time, and beter at calling the TO on time if necissary. But there were still alot of wasted TO's.

Im not saying Kaep doesnt share some of the blame, im just simply saying that Harbaugh/roman share the blame as well. Like i said i think its a combination of both.

I don't disagree. It most likely is a combination of things. It just struck me as odd that Harbaugh would attribute it to Kap in his press conference. He usually doesn't denigrate his players in the press.
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Maybe he is under the assumption that all Qb's can run/should run an Offense as efficiently when they play call comes a bit late, like AS could? Or maybe he is just running his mouth, I like harbaugh, but it ouldnt be the first time? If you recall, there were quite a few of these situations when AS was under center. AS was just more efficient at attempting to get the ball and line adjustents made on time, and beter at calling the TO on time if necissary. But there were still alot of wasted TO's.

Im not saying Kaep doesnt share some of the blame, im just simply saying that Harbaugh/roman share the blame as well. Like i said i think its a combination of both.

I don't disagree. It most likely is a combination of things. It just struck me as odd that Harbaugh would attribute it to Kap in his press conference. He usually doesn't denigrate his players in the press.

Could be sending Kaep a larger message than he does during meetings. Speaking of wasted TO's. Harbaugh challenged and lost the last timeout of the 2nd
half on a play that wasn't a first down or deep in our territory. I don't know why you would challenge unless that play is a game changer. It was 2nd and 2. Its not like that game with replacement refs that gave him 9 timeouts.
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Maybe he is under the assumption that all Qb's can run/should run an Offense as efficiently when they play call comes a bit late, like AS could? Or maybe he is just running his mouth, I like harbaugh, but it ouldnt be the first time? If you recall, there were quite a few of these situations when AS was under center. AS was just more efficient at attempting to get the ball and line adjustents made on time, and beter at calling the TO on time if necissary. But there were still alot of wasted TO's.

Im not saying Kaep doesnt share some of the blame, im just simply saying that Harbaugh/roman share the blame as well. Like i said i think its a combination of both.

I don't disagree. It most likely is a combination of things. It just struck me as odd that Harbaugh would attribute it to Kap in his press conference. He usually doesn't denigrate his players in the press.

Hes also not great at taking responsibility for his short comings. For all his good qualitys he isaint perfect. Last season, and early this season, he rarely had to answer questions about the coaching staff. Most of the blame and questions were about AS, because lets face it, AS has been the scapegoat for the shortcomings of this team since he was drafted. Harbaugh didnt have to answer tough questions, all he had to do was protect AS with the media. That is much easier to do then to admit ones own shortcomings when the blame begins to shift a bit because AS can no longer be the medias b***h or blamed for the shortcomings of the offense.
Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Maybe he is under the assumption that all Qb's can run/should run an Offense as efficiently when they play call comes a bit late, like AS could? Or maybe he is just running his mouth, I like harbaugh, but it ouldnt be the first time? If you recall, there were quite a few of these situations when AS was under center. AS was just more efficient at attempting to get the ball and line adjustents made on time, and beter at calling the TO on time if necissary. But there were still alot of wasted TO's.

Im not saying Kaep doesnt share some of the blame, im just simply saying that Harbaugh/roman share the blame as well. Like i said i think its a combination of both.

I don't disagree. It most likely is a combination of things. It just struck me as odd that Harbaugh would attribute it to Kap in his press conference. He usually doesn't denigrate his players in the press.

Could be sending Kaep a larger message than he does during meetings. Speaking of wasted TO's. Harbaugh challenged and lost the last timeout of the 2nd
half on a play that wasn't a first down or deep in our territory. I don't know why you would challenge unless that play is a game changer. It was 2nd and 2. Its not like that game with replacement refs that gave him 9 timeouts.

He chalenges with emotion instead of logic. This has been true since last season. Nothing new. He is an emotional guy, and alot of times thats a good thing. Sometimes it bites him in the ass. He needs to defure those challenges to someone in the booth.
REDO the OLine is more like it. FACT IS the 49ers are ranked 32nd out of 32 teams in pass protection. That's right, dead last. No team will get past the big boys with that stat. in today's league.
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