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So, are people still worried about Greg Roman leaving?

  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 617
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by kem99:
Roman is not the reason the 49ers had to "scramble just to make the playoffs"...

First, the bar was set pretty high to make the playoffs in the NFC this year. The 49ers won 11 games (and tied on) last year and were the # 2 seed. They won 12 games this year in the best division in the NFL and were the # 5 seed. The Cardinals won 10 games and didn't get in.

Second, the Seahawks went through that stretch where they very easily could have lost to the Texans, Rams and/or Bucs but managed to escape without a loss. If they lose just one of those, the entire playoff scenario is different.

Third, the 49ers 4 losses were all to play off teams in the final 8 (Colts, Seahawks, Saints and Panthers). Of those 8, the Seahawks, Panthers and Saints were all in the top 5 defensively in terms whether you measure it by yards and points. In other words, almost everyone struggled against those teams offensively.

Fourth, despite not having Crabtree for 2/3 of the season and going through the first significant injuries on the OL in 2 years, the 49ers scored over 400 points, which was more than they scored last year. Granted, overall the defense and special teams have been better this year and that certainly helps, but they also had Crabtree fully healthy all of last year. And, it is not like the 49ers are scored 15 points per game last year.

Fifth, Kap's struggles earlier this year are well documented but, guess who went through a similar stretch last year in his second year starting...Cam Newton after his record setting rookie year. Newton ended up turning it around in the 2nd half of last year and rode that into this year. Guess who else has struggled at times in his second year? Yep, Russell Wilson. Hasn't he had a number of low completion percentage, under 200 yards passing games, including Saturday's game against the Saints? And, who else in his second year struggled at times after losing his #1 receiver? Andrew Luck, who is considered the most advanced young QB ever. Given all of that evidence, is it really all that surprising that Kap went through a slump, especially with Crabtree being out.

Here's the other thing...Roman's the OC so if the offense struggles, he gets the heat, I get it. But, I've seen a number of calls for Chryst to be the OC if/when Roman leaves. That view begs a couple of questions though...(1) If you believe Kap's early season struggles were a coaching issue, shouldn't a significant amount of the angst be directed toward Chryst as the QB coach? Should you promote the QB coach to OC where the main gripe against the OC is that the QB underperformed? Moreover, do you want to turn the offense over to Chryst when in his 2 years as an OC, the Chargers scored 276 points both years. Admittedly, the talent level was different and it was over a decade ago, but that's his record.

(2) We know Harbaugh's "QB whisperer" reputation both in terms of spotting QB talent and coaching it. Given that, again, if you believe Kap's struggles were coaching related and you know Harbaugh works closely with the QBs, shouldn't Harbaugh be catching some the the criticism that has been focused on Roman?

Roman is not perfect and if he leaves, I trust Harbaugh to put the right person in place as OC, but he is far from the sole reason the 49ers had to "scramble" to make the playoffs.
his dumb play calling vs the colts when he ran away from the run was the reason we lost. his dumb play calling and refusal to let the team try to get a yard on fourth and one from the one is the reason we lost that game which then put us in a hole which the team had to get out of. to their credit, despite roman, they did. one reason is due to the fact gore and ck changed play calls which resulted in touchdowns. in my opinion

So, basically, what you're saying is that...if the offense struggles and the 49ers lose, it's Roman's fault. If the 49ers win, it is the players.

And, you don't care what the numbers actually show or who the 49ers lost to. All you care about is Roman's "dumb play calling," which is what every fan base complains about...never mind that the same play calling has led to or contributed to seasons of 13, 11 and 12 wins or 3 straight years in the NFC Championship Game or overcoming the Crabtree injury this year...Nope, none of that matters, it was all in spite of Roman....Really?

The Colts beat the 49ers 27-7 so there was a lot more going on than the offensive play calling, but even if I give you that the entire game would have been different if the 49ers had stuck with the run more, which is a big assumption, isn't Harbaugh responsible for making 4th and 1 decisions? When did that become Roman's call?

And, your other best piece of evidence is that Kap and Gore changed 1 play, one, on their own that we know of the entire season. That's your best evidence for the players overcoming Roman's faults? A single play? Really? Never mind that it was Roman's play calls that got the offense down to the 1 yard line and you're also assuming the play called would not have worked, but, then again, I'm guessing that even if it had worked, it would have been a "dumb" play call that the players made work somehow.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 4,806
Good stuff kem99. Well stated. One of the more absurd things I've heard when people slam Roman was after the ATL game this season, someone said ,"whoever called the plays after the 3rd quarter, should call the plays for the rest of the season." It's as if when the playcalling sucks, it's Roman doing it. When the playcalling is good, it was someone else.

Going for it or kicking a FG is the Head Coach's decision. WTF is the head coach doing during the game if he isn't making these types of decisions?


Roman has proved himself over this 8 game stretch, imo. Anyone who is wanting him gone maybe opening up a can of worms we need not open.
in baugh i trush
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 29,899
good thoughts from people defending him but he has proven his true colors with me. he has went down retard road one to many times. i like our success since mid november but i still want him gone. and yes i will not give him credit for calling a few good games in a row,,,, the way he should be calling all games. i understand due to the success we have had and the fact that we are at the edge of another super bowl, people are changing their tune and are wanting him to stay and that is fine. i am just not one of them. difference of opinion oh and i have always said Jh is a enabler when roman goes down retard road. and NO that does not mean i hate JH.


He should be very familiar with this defense. I expect that if there is something to exploit he will find it
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by kem99:
Roman is not the reason the 49ers had to "scramble just to make the playoffs"...

First, the bar was set pretty high to make the playoffs in the NFC this year. The 49ers won 11 games (and tied on) last year and were the # 2 seed. They won 12 games this year in the best division in the NFL and were the # 5 seed. The Cardinals won 10 games and didn't get in.

Second, the Seahawks went through that stretch where they very easily could have lost to the Texans, Rams and/or Bucs but managed to escape without a loss. If they lose just one of those, the entire playoff scenario is different.

Third, the 49ers 4 losses were all to play off teams in the final 8 (Colts, Seahawks, Saints and Panthers). Of those 8, the Seahawks, Panthers and Saints were all in the top 5 defensively in terms whether you measure it by yards and points. In other words, almost everyone struggled against those teams offensively.

Fourth, despite not having Crabtree for 2/3 of the season and going through the first significant injuries on the OL in 2 years, the 49ers scored over 400 points, which was more than they scored last year. Granted, overall the defense and special teams have been better this year and that certainly helps, but they also had Crabtree fully healthy all of last year. And, it is not like the 49ers are scored 15 points per game last year.

Fifth, Kap's struggles earlier this year are well documented but, guess who went through a similar stretch last year in his second year starting...Cam Newton after his record setting rookie year. Newton ended up turning it around in the 2nd half of last year and rode that into this year. Guess who else has struggled at times in his second year? Yep, Russell Wilson. Hasn't he had a number of low completion percentage, under 200 yards passing games, including Saturday's game against the Saints? And, who else in his second year struggled at times after losing his #1 receiver? Andrew Luck, who is considered the most advanced young QB ever. Given all of that evidence, is it really all that surprising that Kap went through a slump, especially with Crabtree being out.

Here's the other thing...Roman's the OC so if the offense struggles, he gets the heat, I get it. But, I've seen a number of calls for Chryst to be the OC if/when Roman leaves. That view begs a couple of questions though...(1) If you believe Kap's early season struggles were a coaching issue, shouldn't a significant amount of the angst be directed toward Chryst as the QB coach? Should you promote the QB coach to OC where the main gripe against the OC is that the QB underperformed? Moreover, do you want to turn the offense over to Chryst when in his 2 years as an OC, the Chargers scored 276 points both years. Admittedly, the talent level was different and it was over a decade ago, but that's his record.

(2) We know Harbaugh's "QB whisperer" reputation both in terms of spotting QB talent and coaching it. Given that, again, if you believe Kap's struggles were coaching related and you know Harbaugh works closely with the QBs, shouldn't Harbaugh be catching some the the criticism that has been focused on Roman?

Roman is not perfect and if he leaves, I trust Harbaugh to put the right person in place as OC, but he is far from the sole reason the 49ers had to "scramble" to make the playoffs.
his dumb play calling vs the colts when he ran away from the run was the reason we lost. his dumb play calling and refusal to let the team try to get a yard on fourth and one from the one is the reason we lost that game which then put us in a hole which the team had to get out of. to their credit, despite roman, they did. one reason is due to the fact gore and ck changed play calls which resulted in touchdowns. in my opinion

So, basically, what you're saying is that...if the offense struggles and the 49ers lose, it's Roman's fault. If the 49ers win, it is the players.

And, you don't care what the numbers actually show or who the 49ers lost to. All you care about is Roman's "dumb play calling," which is what every fan base complains about...never mind that the same play calling has led to or contributed to seasons of 13, 11 and 12 wins or 3 straight years in the NFC Championship Game or overcoming the Crabtree injury this year...Nope, none of that matters, it was all in spite of Roman....Really?

The Colts beat the 49ers 27-7 so there was a lot more going on than the offensive play calling, but even if I give you that the entire game would have been different if the 49ers had stuck with the run more, which is a big assumption, isn't Harbaugh responsible for making 4th and 1 decisions? When did that become Roman's call?

And, your other best piece of evidence is that Kap and Gore changed 1 play, one, on their own that we know of the entire season. That's your best evidence for the players overcoming Roman's faults? A single play? Really? Never mind that it was Roman's play calls that got the offense down to the 1 yard line and you're also assuming the play called would not have worked, but, then again, I'm guessing that even if it had worked, it would have been a "dumb" play call that the players made work somehow.

Truth bombs everywhere
Winning cures all. Who's going to complain about Roman now that we are in the NFCC? Of course, if our season ends in a loss, then obviously the bum can't do anything right.

The folks who have expressed a continuing degree of discomfort with our offensive performance/production during the course of the year -- win or lose -- have often made legitimate observations that the staff can be held accountable for. Who on staff? Hard to say exactly. Roman is involved to a degree, almost certainly. Is it all on staff? No. Kap is a work in progress on various levels. This also has adversely affected our calls, looks, and results.

Strangely though, I look at the QB development issue and the wr injury soap opera for the year, as camouflage for other issues that could be addressed despite these obstacles. Like lack of a robust short or intermediate passing trees that employ rb's and TE's, lack of offensive skill rotation, lack of diversity in our selection of player targets, an odd predictablility regarding who will get the ball when. Quick hitters, pitches, screens -- all oddly missing from our playbook. Other teams like the Pats have handled similar adversity with differing results.

True, when your QB is growing up, it affects a lot of what can be done, more than any other position. But superior systems adapt even to that (see Matt Cassel, Josh Cambell). I get the sense that our staff is still growing in that area.

But...we are 14-4! No doubt that our chunk and dunk approach coupled with Kap's success at refusing to throw int's and our D has given us a winning formula against most teams. No denying that.

I am sure Roman is the worst OC in the world. Except for all the others. Although there are other OC's which can help improve the production and consistency of the offense, there are many who would do worse too. Roman is probably overall a benefit to have on staff. Just not as chief offensive architect and playcaller.

I have to go.
Our offensive success has alot more to do with our players than Roman. His schemes are predictable, and he calls retarded plays inside the 10.

I wouldnt mind him staying, but if he goes Chryst would just take over. The loss wouldnt be that noticeable. Chryst likes to run a little more up-tempo, no huddle offense, which sounds very interesting. Might help with our playclock issues.
I'm more worried that he would take some of our coaches with him than I am worried about him leaving. I'd rather have him not get hired then we can fire him if we want to than have him get hired and possibly take our coaches with him. Not sure if they would go or not but I'd hate to lose any one of the defensive coaches (Fangio, Tomsula, Leavitt, Donatell, Jackson) and out of the offensive coaches Rathman is probably the only one I'd worry about losing.