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Above Harbaugh

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
he's in the top 32 fo sho.

lol
Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Funny how Belichick's genius didn't apply to the Browns, or to Drew Bledsoe. What a coincidence that Brady strongly supports the only NFL coach he has ever played for. Who would have thought? Let's see how Belichicks other protege's develop. Matt Cassel, hmm... not exactly playing like Joe Montana did when he left his team and went to the Chiefs.

How about Andrew Luck? Not doing too bad. I wonder who developed him?
Josh Johnson holds the NCAA Division I record for highest career passer efficiency at 176.68.

Hmm... I wonder who Belichick has "developed" at quarterback in his entire career besides Tom Brady? The same Tom Brady who Belichick obviously knew would be a great one, since he selected him all the way up in the 6th round. Nope. Can't actually think of any. Perhaps in time Belichick will win the lottery again, just to prove that he can do it twice.

lol why do you talk/type like that?

Anyways.
You notice Matt Cassel had a great year under Belichick and sucked AFTER he left? The Pats went 11-5 with Cassel lol Belichick made him look like a pro bowl QB. He was very good with Belichick and sucked without him.

And there's a reason Brady was a 6th round pick. He wasn't a great QB coming out of the draft. He wasn't even great right away. Belichick made him great over the years

You don't make any sense.

Belichick made Brady great, and there's nothing you can say to change my mind

And lol at "winning the lottery." To say Brady made Belichick is dumb.
Also, I never said Harbaugh wasn't a great coach, I'm not arguing that at all.


Belichick is a good NFL coach, but some call him a "genius". That is the only gripe I have with Belichick.

Belichick's record with the Browns:
1991 -- 6 - 10
1992 -- 7 - 9
1993 -- 7 - 9
1994 -- 11 - 5
1995 -- 5 - 11

Belichick's record with the Patriots:
2000 -- 5 - 11
2001 -- 11 - 5 (Brady becomes his quarterback)
2002 -- 9 - 7
2003 -- 14 - 2
2004 -- 14 - 2
2005 -- 10 - 6
2006 -- 12 - 4
2007 -- 16 - 0
2008 -- 11 - 5 (Matt Cassel)
2009 -- 10 - 6
2010 -- 14 - 2
2011 -- 13 - 3

Is this the track record of a "genius"?

Bill Walsh was involved with Joe Montana, Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Steve Bono, Elvis Grback. Two Hall-of-Famers, a multi-Pro Bowl selection, and two players who played well enough for other teams to try them out as free agent starters.

Walsh scouted, pursued, and/or helped coach most of these guys. They didn't just fall into his lap. Walsh is one of the few coaches who can be called a "genius".
Harbaugh is starting off his young career with a similar track record with winning records and quarterback success.

Belichick's track record is nothing remotely similar to either Walsh or Harbaugh, and therefore he cannot be considered a "genius". A good coach perhaps, but not a "genius". That is my only point.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Nov 23, 2012 at 7:21 PM ]
Originally posted by buck:
Give credit where credit is due. Baalke selects the players.

Now, I would assume that Harbaugh had a lot to say in the selection of Colin Kaepernick.
But, I would not make that same assumption about the selection of Aldon Smith.

I am sure Balke runs everything through Harbaugh, as he should. Just like when he ran things through Singletary (Taylor Mays), Ultimately, the head coach should be the buck stops here guy. I give the credit and responsibility to Harbaugh.
Sometimes i wish i could make a thread on here that wouldn't get locked or deleted with a poll called

Who is you'er favorite team...

I sometimes think the results would be surprising
Until he wins a Super Bowl he's not in the discussion for best coach. He's done a good job turning teams around, but how many championships has he won at any level? And he hasn't proven that he can sustain success for more than a few seasons because he leaves after a few years. I'd put him in the top half of the league right now, but no better. That could certainly change, but he still has a lot to prove.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Belichick is a good NFL coach, but some call him a "genius". That is the only gripe I have with Belichick.

Belichick's record with the Browns:
1991 -- 6 - 10
1992 -- 7 - 9
1993 -- 7 - 9
1994 -- 11 - 5
1995 -- 5 - 11

Belichick's record with the Patriots:
2000 -- 5 - 11
2001 -- 11 - 5 (Brady becomes his quarterback)
2002 -- 9 - 7
2003 -- 14 - 2
2004 -- 14 - 2
2005 -- 10 - 6
2006 -- 12 - 4
2007 -- 16 - 0
2008 -- 11 - 5 (Matt Cassel)
2009 -- 10 - 6
2010 -- 14 - 2
2011 -- 13 - 3

Is this the track record of a "genius"?

Bill Walsh was involved with Joe Montana, Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Steve Bono, Elvis Grback. Two Hall-of-Famers, a multi-Pro Bowl selection, and two players who played well enough for other teams to try them out as free agent starters.

Walsh scouted, pursued, and/or helped coach most of these guys. They didn't just fall into his lap. Walsh is one of the few coaches who can be called a "genius".
Harbaugh is starting off his young career with a similar track record with winning records and quarterback success.

Belichick's track record is nothing remotely similar to either Walsh or Harbaugh, and therefore he cannot be considered a "genius". A good coach perhaps, but not a "genius". That is my only point.

I've always gone along with your assessment about Belichick. One major factor against him is that he is not a likeable guy, and him being caught cheating does not help. When you talk about Genius the real criterion is coaching tree and innovation. Coach Walsh's assistants have had a huge impact on the game. His innovation has affected every offense in the NFL and has become part of every teams game plan. Belichick was a great defense coach, but even with boatloads of picks on that side of the ball they have been below average for years. I'd say that he was quick to take advantage of the offensive rules that opened up the passing game and had a very accurate QB in Brady. IMO his biggest fault was not winning the biggest game of his life. If you take a team undefeated to the Super Bowl and can't close how can you be called a genius. The one game that would have defied his legacy, he lost.
Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Until he wins a Super Bowl he's not in the discussion for best coach. He's done a good job turning teams around, but how many championships has he won at any level? And he hasn't proven that he can sustain success for more than a few seasons because he leaves after a few years. I'd put him in the top half of the league right now, but no better. That could certainly change, but he still has a lot to prove.

Always moved up, in the past. FCS San Diego State to FBS Stanford, FBS Stanford to NFL 49ers. Nowhere up to go from here, nothing to do but prove yourself. I think he sticks around.





(or at least I hope he does... )
Belichick, Coughlin - multiple rings says enough.

Belichick just wins. Coughlin is at his best on the hot seat. Not to mention the way the Giants outcoached us this year.

McCarthy, Payton, Tomlin, Fisher, John Harbaugh, John Fox, Kubiak, Reid all at the next level with Jim. We win a SB or two and I think you can put Jim up there with Coughlin at the very least, and depending on how the next 3-7 years go, Belichick.
[ Edited by SmileyJetson on Nov 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM ]
Don't know where to rank him, but ....

26 regular season games into his NFL coaching career and Harbaugh and 49ers have never had a losing streak.

That says a lot about Harbaugh....and the other coaches as well.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,029
Originally posted by 60sfan:
Originally posted by buck:
Give credit where credit is due. Baalke selects the players.

Now, I would assume that Harbaugh had a lot to say in the selection of Colin Kaepernick.
But, I would not make that same assumption about the selection of Aldon Smith.

I am sure Balke runs everything through Harbaugh, as he should. Just like when he ran things through Singletary (Taylor Mays), Ultimately, the head coach should be the buck stops here guy. I give the credit and responsibility to Harbaugh.

Well, clearly we do not agree.

Sometimes, the coach is the buck stops here guy, but not always when it comes to player selection.
At the press conference announcing the hiring of Harbaugh, one reporter asked who will have the trigger--final say on player selection.

The clear and unequivocal answer given by Harbuagh was Baalke.

I am not saying that Baalke exercises his power capriously or dictorially, but Baalke is responsible for player selection.
The process is a collective process led by Baalke.

You seem to be giving sole credit to Harbaugh. If that it is the case, I do believe you are mistaken.

Harbaugh is proving to be an excellent coach, but it is also true that Baalke is proving to be an excellent general manager.

Both merit credit for their acuquity and hard work.



Originally posted by buck:
Well, clearly we do not agree.

Sometimes, the coach is the buck stops here guy, but not always when it comes to player selection.
At the press conference announcing the hiring of Harbaugh, one reporter asked who will have the trigger--final say on player selection.

The clear and unequivocal answer given by Harbuagh was Baalke.

I am not saying that Baalke exercises his power capriously or dictorially, but Baalke is responsible for player selection.
The process is a collective process led by Baalke.

You seem to be giving sole credit to Harbaugh. If that it is the case, I do believe you are mistaken.

Harbaugh is proving to be an excellent coach, but it is also true that Baalke is proving to be an excellent general manager.

Both merit credit for their acuquity and hard work.




I only give Harbaugh the ultimate credit, because, it will be his job on the line ultimately as was Singletary's job when this same Balke was the GM. Balke has proven to be excellent. Make no mistake however, if Harbaugh does not want somebody drafted, it won't happen.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Ken Whisenhunt

Throw that idea around the az forum let us know how it goes. Make sure ya mention that you're a niner faithful.
Originally posted by Allx9er:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Ken Whisenhunt

Throw that idea around the az forum let us know how it goes. Make sure ya mention that you're a niner faithful.

You mean AZ fans don't think too much of Whisenhunt?

Wonder why.

His handling of their QB situation rivals Singletary.
We had a super talented team long before Harbaugh showed up. It was just ran into the ground by a bunch of idiots. Our drafts in the last 10 years have been superior to anyone elses. It's barely even debateable we have a juggarnaut of talent.

That being said he's the best coach without a ring. You just can't put him ahead of Belechick or Coughlin.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Nov 23, 2012 at 8:45 PM ]
Originally posted by 60sfan:
Originally posted by buck:
I am willing to admit that the press can be a pain, but treating people with disdain, even if it is merited, is not something that I like or admire.

I really think the way he deals with the press is rank amateurism.

You are right. Disdain is out. But he can manipulate as he pleases.

I agree Harbaugh isnt stupid he knows the press is already going to manipulate his words and twist what he has to say he has every right to play the mind f**k games he does with the press, he operates on a need to know basis, and press doesnt really need to know s**t.