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Growing Pessimism

Originally posted by Faraz80:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Faraz80:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
cciowa, your posts are usually even-keel, everything ok?
no because what i saw sunday pissed me off and it made me wake up and realize, the same things are leading to our losses. we were just able to cover them up against s**thole teams. I thought the vikings loss was "just a bump in the road",, i thought the giants loss was just a "bump in the road". then comes the rams fiasco. come on this is now three games where we look totally lost and not ready to play the game and make stupid sloppy mistakes we did not make last year and are supposedly not the trademark of a JH coached team. if they come back with a great show and a win monday I guess I will just have to resign myself to the fact we have a schizophrenic team. i just do not like this being not ready to play and being outcoached in 3 games jazz. no matter the record of your foe, there is a right way and a wrong way to play the game and more and more it looks to me like this team is headed down the wrong way slope and the coaches do not have a clue what to do to stop it

It happens on a 16 game season, you are not gonna look good some games. Even the great teams of the 80s and 90s looked like crap some weeks.


Different era, different culture. The 80s/90s consisted of 2-3 GREAT teams per conference vs mediocre/wannabe teams just happy to make the playoffs. The 90s 49ers could get away with an occasional loss to the Falcons, Bills, Lions, etc.....because in the grand scheme of things, you knew that they were going to be at the MINIMUM a 2nd / 3rd seed in the playoffs.

This is a different stage in modern times. Every team thinks they can win the big one at any given moment, and that makes it all the more important to win games that we should. I would hate to see us lose a first round bye bc we TIED the Rams at home coming off a bye. In the 80s/90s, no biggie. In 2012, BIGGIE !

Not so much because in the modern NFL there is more parity in the NFL. Every team is pretty evenly matched and can pretty much beat any other team.


Yep, and thats why every game matters. a 12-4 record, once upon a time, was a guaranteed bye / home field advantage throughout. Its not only parity, but the new divisional format (4 divisions - 4 winners and only 2 WC teams) thats problematic.

I guess you are right but Im more of a grand scheme of things kinda guy. I like to look at the final product, to me its just about getting into the playoffs. Hopefully we can get in and get hot at the right time. Im not so worried about how we look right now Im more worried about how we look in mid December.
^^i do believe there is a schizm in the locker room...................................
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Faraz80:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Faraz80:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
cciowa, your posts are usually even-keel, everything ok?
no because what i saw sunday pissed me off and it made me wake up and realize, the same things are leading to our losses. we were just able to cover them up against s**thole teams. I thought the vikings loss was "just a bump in the road",, i thought the giants loss was just a "bump in the road". then comes the rams fiasco. come on this is now three games where we look totally lost and not ready to play the game and make stupid sloppy mistakes we did not make last year and are supposedly not the trademark of a JH coached team. if they come back with a great show and a win monday I guess I will just have to resign myself to the fact we have a schizophrenic team. i just do not like this being not ready to play and being outcoached in 3 games jazz. no matter the record of your foe, there is a right way and a wrong way to play the game and more and more it looks to me like this team is headed down the wrong way slope and the coaches do not have a clue what to do to stop it

It happens on a 16 game season, you are not gonna look good some games. Even the great teams of the 80s and 90s looked like crap some weeks.


Different era, different culture. The 80s/90s consisted of 2-3 GREAT teams per conference vs mediocre/wannabe teams just happy to make the playoffs. The 90s 49ers could get away with an occasional loss to the Falcons, Bills, Lions, etc.....because in the grand scheme of things, you knew that they were going to be at the MINIMUM a 2nd / 3rd seed in the playoffs.

This is a different stage in modern times. Every team thinks they can win the big one at any given moment, and that makes it all the more important to win games that we should. I would hate to see us lose a first round bye bc we TIED the Rams at home coming off a bye. In the 80s/90s, no biggie. In 2012, BIGGIE !

Not so much because in the modern NFL there is more parity in the NFL. Every team is pretty evenly matched and can pretty much beat any other team.


Yep, and thats why every game matters. a 12-4 record, once upon a time, was a guaranteed bye / home field advantage throughout. Its not only parity, but the new divisional format (4 divisions - 4 winners and only 2 WC teams) thats problematic.

I guess you are right but Im more of a grand scheme of things kinda guy. I like to look at the final product, to me its just about getting into the playoffs. Hopefully we can get in and get hot at the right time. Im not so worried about how we look right now Im more worried about how we look in mid December.


To me, it's all about home field. I think home field played a HUGE role in our win vs NO last year, and the way it looks now....a 3rd seed in the playoffs would mean a 1st round WC game against Seattle (or NO if they pull off a miracle), followed by a road trip to CHI/GB (winner of second seed), followed by a trip to Atlanta in a DOME ( ).

Id rather sit out the first round, face the Giants/GB/Chi at home in week 2, and MAYBE have to go to ATL for the NFCC game (OR knowing that ATL self combusts come playoff time), end up playing the Giants or even Seattle ( ) in the NFCC game in San Fran.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 28,052
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Faraz80:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
cciowa, your posts are usually even-keel, everything ok?
no because what i saw sunday pissed me off and it made me wake up and realize, the same things are leading to our losses. we were just able to cover them up against s**thole teams. I thought the vikings loss was "just a bump in the road",, i thought the giants loss was just a "bump in the road". then comes the rams fiasco. come on this is now three games where we look totally lost and not ready to play the game and make stupid sloppy mistakes we did not make last year and are supposedly not the trademark of a JH coached team. if they come back with a great show and a win monday I guess I will just have to resign myself to the fact we have a schizophrenic team. i just do not like this being not ready to play and being outcoached in 3 games jazz. no matter the record of your foe, there is a right way and a wrong way to play the game and more and more it looks to me like this team is headed down the wrong way slope and the coaches do not have a clue what to do to stop it

It happens on a 16 game season, you are not gonna look good some games. Even the great teams of the 80s and 90s looked like crap some weeks.


Different era, different culture. The 80s/90s consisted of 2-3 GREAT teams per conference vs mediocre/wannabe teams just happy to make the playoffs. The 90s 49ers could get away with an occasional loss to the Falcons, Bills, Lions, etc.....because in the grand scheme of things, you knew that they were going to be at the MINIMUM a 2nd / 3rd seed in the playoffs.

This is a different stage in modern times. Every team thinks they can win the big one at any given moment, and that makes it all the more important to win games that we should. I would hate to see us lose a first round bye bc we TIED the Rams at home coming off a bye. In the 80s/90s, no biggie. In 2012, BIGGIE !

Not so much because in the modern NFL there is more parity in the NFL. Every team is pretty evenly matched and can pretty much beat any other team.
its the WAY we have lost. i guess i can not explain it very well. it has now happend 3 times, we were totally un prepared to play the game, we were sloppy and stupid all over the place, no focus(two fake punts in one game) and being outcoached in 3 games. that is just not the sign of a elite team no matter how much parity you have in the nfl. the little things we keep doing that hurt us, bad pass protection, penalities, no pass rush, can not stop the run, poor secondary coverage, horrid return coverage.. you can cover that up vs the bills and jets but you can not against the bears, and on the road vs the dolphins, saints, seahawks and yes even the rams, they beat us once, they are at home in the dome and probably will be the favorite going in
If fans didn't have such a short memory and even remotely remembered what s**t was like a couple years ago they probably wouldn't b***h so much.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
If fans didn't have such a short memory and even remotely remembered what s**t was like a couple years ago they probably wouldn't b***h so much.

lol.


but honestly....

d-line regressed, carlos rogers regressed, LB's the same, secondary overall looks better. defense still elite. special teams regressed the most. run game is elite, pass game is good but not great.

still super bowl contenders, however the NFC is deep this year........ playoffs start now.
OP, I am of those fans that you're referring to and will admit it. I remember listening to a Raider fan on the radio calling Niner fans a bunch of whiners and said that we were spoiled. In my case, he couldn't be more right.

As someone who was born in the 80s and consistently watch this team play great football for years, that's pretty much all you expect from this franchise. Even though we went through an eight year slump, I could feel that we would be great once again. I don't know why but it was the year that Singletary came in that made me feel that that would be the time when the 49ers would be good again. I was wrong but I saw the potential because of the talented players we had on the field.

When I notice that I'm getting to the point where my negativity for the team is coming out, I have to remind myself what those poor Browns fans are going through. (Not Raider fans, I love seeing them cry all day )
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
If fans didn't have such a short memory and even remotely remembered what s**t was like a couple years ago they probably wouldn't b***h so much.

lol.


but honestly....

d-line regressed, carlos rogers regressed, LB's the same, secondary overall looks better. defense still elite. special teams regressed the most. run game is elite, pass game is good but not great.

still super bowl contenders, however the NFC is deep this year........ playoffs start now.

Total defense #3, fewest points per game #1, total offensive yards #12, QBR #3, and completion % #1, ST return teams both top 10.

STs coverage teams are hurting and FG % is not as good as last year, tied for 17th.

All in all a good record but we shouldn't be happy with those few things that are not working well--kick coverage in particular. If Akers makes the game winning kick in the Super Bowl all will be forgiven and he will be a hero.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
If fans didn't have such a short memory and even remotely remembered what s**t was like a couple years ago they probably wouldn't b***h so much.

lol.


but honestly....

d-line regressed, carlos rogers regressed, LB's the same, secondary overall looks better. defense still elite. special teams regressed the most. run game is elite, pass game is good but not great.

still super bowl contenders, however the NFC is deep this year........ playoffs start now.

Total defense #3, fewest points per game #1, total offensive yards #12, QBR #3, and completion % #1, ST return teams both top 10.

STs coverage teams are hurting and FG % is not as good as last year, tied for 17th.

All in all a good record but we shouldn't be happy with those few things that are not working well--kick coverage in particular. If Akers makes the game winning kick in the Super Bowl all will be forgiven and he will be a hero.

yeah akers hasn't been reliable for a while now........ i haven't been confident in him since about week 3........
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
If fans didn't have such a short memory and even remotely remembered what s**t was like a couple years ago they probably wouldn't b***h so much.

That's true. Back then, I saw no hope in those teams. With this season's team, we had higher expectations because of how dominant and elite last season's defense was. I think the competition is a lot more watered down this year in the NFC so I hate to say it but that's the only reason why I can realistically see the Niners being able to go all the way.

I've always admired seeing loyal fans who are optimistic all the way through. I wish I were like that. I've always been the type that expects the worse but hopes for the best. I felt the same way about the SF Giants this season and boy did they prove me wrong. That's probably why I enjoyed this run even more so than the first one. They proved me wrong and I loved it.
I still think we're the best team in the NFL. Like the OP said, we have our flaws but so does everyone else. Nobody wants to play the 49ers in the playoffs.

Naturally, most of the skepticism has to do with our passing game. People like to point out we're ranked 28th in passing offense and assume that's a weakness. Dig deeper and you'll find some pretty shocking stats:

Ranked 2nd in completion % (69.1)
Ranked 3rd in yards-per-attempt (8.0)
Ranked 4th in QB rating (102.2)

The passing game is not the focal point of the offense, but it is still very good. Much better than people think.

The big question is can the passing game deliver in the playoffs. The top teams will find ways to put us in difficult spots, setting up critical passing downs. Can we deliver in those moments? That's the big question.
I dont beleive their are any schizms, or desent in the locker room. I beleive these guys have bought in again this season. I also think this is a very talented team when it comes to starters at almost every position.

I truly beleive that the problem lies with depth. IMO this was a failed offseason simply due to the fact that we have very limited depth, we let key speciel teams players go, and then we didnt get anything out of the draft to replace those players or fill those holes.

I understand Harbaalkie was worried about the WR position, the third and short conundrum, and other things, but you cannot go overboard on things like that and fail to address any other of the glaring needs.

As has been mentioned i beleive in this thread, or other threads, Special teams is a very important complement to a defensive team. That was the #1 failure. Letting great special teams players leave and then not replacing them with young players from the draft.

The other problem was over addressing positions in the draft, that were addressed through free agency, and ignoring the depth issues that have been issues for several years in the hopes that the starters at those positions continued to play like they had, and hopes that there would be no injurys at those positions.

Getting playmakers from day 1 out of the draft, every year, is very important in todays NFL. Anyone who thinks differant is confused.
[ Edited by IdahoNiner on Nov 15, 2012 at 9:16 PM ]
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
If fans didn't have such a short memory and even remotely remembered what s**t was like a couple years ago they probably wouldn't b***h so much.


lol 2 years ago people would've killed to only have 2 losses at this point in the season
This team will hit its stride when the playoffs start. Look at how healthy they've been. For them to lead the NFL in points allowed while "regressing on defense" means something mean is waiting, can't wait to see it.
you know that we're one win away from gaining that second seed in the nfc, right?