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For WZ members that have been following football 35 + years

Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Faraz80:
I dont think Ive ever heard Alex Smith's name held in the same breath as Troy Aikman, Bart Starr, Phil Simms except for here in the webzone.

This is grasping at straws fellas. All of the aforementioned led dynasties and/or dynasty type teams. You base your judgment(s) on Alex based on one year's worth of play which led us to the NFCC, and now you think he can be compared to them. Im sorry, but anyone outside of Ninerland would laugh at this.

Even though I've watched football for over 40 years I have difficulty comparing Smith to past QB's as well. But I'm curious if you are older than 50 and therefore have the requirements to speak on the subject.

This is a bit of a copout to me. Of all the NFL qb through history of the league none of them that Smith is comparable in his type of play.... How about our very own Jim Harbaugh. Very similar to Smith when he was with the Bears.
Originally posted by nevadalove9ers2:
Alex smith is much closer to tim couch than anyone on that list!

and he is still better than colin kaepernick
rich gannon comes to mind
Alex http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm
Troy Aikman http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm
Bart Starr http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StarBa00.htm
Bob Griese http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrieBo00.htm
Phil Simms http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SimmPh00.htm
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Alex http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm
Troy Aikman http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm
Bart Starr http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StarBa00.htm
Bob Griese http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrieBo00.htm
Phil Simms http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SimmPh00.htm

comparing stats = moot argument

different eras (and rules) altogether
Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
comparing stats = moot argument

different eras (and rules) altogether

You dont say? Although our game is considered old school, Im just trying to fulfill stats from the players mentioned in op. IM not comparing any of them, IMO it doesnt work, its just as asinine as comparing Brady to Montana which the worshipped media on here cant seem to get enough of.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
comparing stats = moot argument

different eras (and rules) altogether

You dont say? Although our game is considered old school, Im just trying to fulfill stats from the players mentioned in op. IM not comparing any of them, IMO it doesnt work, its just as asinine as comparing Brady to Montana which the worshipped media on here cant seem to get enough of.

Stats + observation in context = greater insight. Many of us watched all those QBs from yesteryear and can use our own memories, along with the stats to compare QBs, etc. But it is all for good fun, certainly not going to reach any life altering conclusions!
Originally posted by nevadalove9ers2:
Alex smith is much closer to tim couch than anyone on that list!


Gonna call big fat BS on that One. Even though their career QB ratings are similar (75.1 for Couch, 77.9 for Alex), their careers took very different paths. One of Couchs best seasons was his first season with 15TDs/13INTs. He only had one other season in his entire career with more TDs than INTs...his last (7TDs/6INTs) His QB rationg in every single season he played was between 73 and 78. He was consistantly mediocre.

Alex had 1TD/11INTs as a rookie and has been fighting that statistical season ever since. His QB Rating that year was 40.8. Outside of the injury years where it was clear he shouldn't have been playing, his QB rating has gone up in EVERY SINGLE SEASON: 40.8, 74.8, 81.5, 82.1, 90.7, 93.9 (thats this year so far). In that span (again taking out the rookie year and injury year) he has NEVER thrown more INTs than TDs.

If you look at career TD to INT ratios and just remove the rookie years (just to show career trajectory after rookie year) of each player, you get 49TDs/54INTs for Couch and 76TDs/52INTs for Smith.

Again, not close.

As for the other guys, I've been comparing him to Troy Aikman for years and peeps on this site have been saying it was ridiculous. Peeps love to hate Alex and remember Aikman better than he was. The Cowboys were Emmitts team and had the best O-Line in the NFL. Sound familiar?

I'll just leave you with these....

23/14
15/6
16/7

Those are Troy Aikmans TD to INT ratios in the three years they won the Super Bowl. Don't they look eerily close to Alex Smith lat year with 17/5?

Peeps can make the "it was a different era" comment all they want, but its BS. Yes, the rules have changed some but the fact remains that Aikman played in a run oriented O with the best O-Line in the NFL, just like Alex does now. Both teams challenged the thought process that it was a passing leage and just mauled people in the run game.

Oh...BTW....Troy was starting to be considered a BUST until they hired Norv Turner. In his first year with Norv, he had a ratio of 11TDs/10INTs. In the 2 years prior his ratios were 9TDs/18INTs and 11TDs/18INTs and QB ratings of 55.7 and 66.6.

Norv Turner turned his career around.

In my opinion, it has just taken Alex several years longer to find his Norv Turner.

He has already been a far more successful QB than Tim Couch. It ain't close.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Oct 27, 2012 at 1:52 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
comparing stats = moot argument

different eras (and rules) altogether

You dont say? Although our game is considered old school, Im just trying to fulfill stats from the players mentioned in op. IM not comparing any of them, IMO it doesnt work, its just as asinine as comparing Brady to Montana which the worshipped media on here cant seem to get enough of.

Stats + observation in context = greater insight. Many of us watched all those QBs from yesteryear and can use our own memories, along with the stats to compare QBs, etc. But it is all for good fun, certainly not going to reach any life altering conclusions!


This.

Yes...different eras, but that doesn't mean the sats are completely useless. You do have to keep rule changes in mind, but the numbers are useful if you use them in context. Aikman played with Steve Young, Jim Kelly, Drew Bledsoe, Brett Favre and Dan Marino and ALL of those guys put up far superior numbers. The point is that you look at Aikman not because you are just looking for stats that are similar. You look at him because he played on a similar TEAM...Run-oriented, HUGE, POWERFUL O-Line, and a fast, dominant defense.
Can't put Alex on that list, just can't do it right now he is on a list with dozens and dozens of competent, yet forgettable QBs I've seen, sorry but he is no great shakes.
SUPER BOWL XXIII..... Bengals ahead 16–13 with just over three minutes left on the clock. Following the kickoff, and a holding penalty, the 49ers took over on their 8-yard line with 3:08 left on the clock. Joe Montana began the final drive by stepping into the huddle and remarking to offensive tackle Harris Barton, during a television timeout, "HEY, there's John Candy", as he pointed to the stands on the other side of the field. "HIS CALM" demeanor reassured the 49ers, and he then engineered the greatest drive in Super Bowl history, as he drove the team 92 yards for the winning touchdown on a pass to John Taylor with only 34 seconds left....
I remember that game being in my late twenties and knowing I was watching not just a QB with skills but a moment in time that would make him a legend in the future...I'm not comparing Smith to Montana doesn't even come close and is a waste of time..or to any of the others listed on this post .but what I took from that super bowl was just how cool Joe cool really was and how IN COMMAND he was. Thats what I don't see or have seen in Smith consistently game in game out..He doesn't command the offense and be the leader his position dictates at times..he gets flustered, panics,and begins to force things way to easily. Then he begins to make mistakes and once his confidence is shaken we're usually done..(Giants game as an example).. That said He's not a bad QB ,he does piss the crap out of me sometimes but with this coaching staff I really think Smith can take us to the super bowl and win it,,,as long as the whole team plays up to its potential and its not a repeat of SB XXIII...
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Can't put Alex on that list, just can't do it right now he is on a list with dozens and dozens of competent, yet forgettable QBs I've seen, sorry but he is no great shakes.

Agree that Alex Smith has to 1) lead the team to a Super Bowl win or 2) create a body of work over the next ten years that warrants being in this group. That does not preclude him from being compared because he may do either or both of these things before he retires. Archie Manning and Fran Tarkenton are examples of QBs whose body of work supports their being included...just didn't have the teams to get into the Super Bowl win category...or even the playoffs most years.

Smith has a very good supporting group so he may need a Lombardi Trophy to make it.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 27, 2012 at 3:13 PM ]
Originally posted by Faraz80:
I dont think Ive ever heard Alex Smith's name held in the same breath as Troy Aikman, Bart Starr, Phil Simms except for here in the webzone.

This is grasping at straws fellas. All of the aforementioned led dynasties and/or dynasty type teams. You base your judgment(s) on Alex based on one year's worth of play which led us to the NFCC, and now you think he can be compared to them. Im sorry, but anyone outside of Ninerland would laugh at this.

It's funny cuz when I read it at first, I was saying, willy of NFL network actually said that not only can the Niners win a sb with alex at qb. He compared smith to the same qbs mentioned above.
Originally posted by dugo:
SUPER BOWL XXIII..... Bengals ahead 16–13 with just over three minutes left on the clock. Following the kickoff, and a holding penalty, the 49ers took over on their 8-yard line with 3:08 left on the clock. Joe Montana began the final drive by stepping into the huddle and remarking to offensive tackle Harris Barton, during a television timeout, "HEY, there's John Candy", as he pointed to the stands on the other side of the field. "HIS CALM" demeanor reassured the 49ers, and he then engineered the greatest drive in Super Bowl history, as he drove the team 92 yards for the winning touchdown on a pass to John Taylor with only 34 seconds left....
I remember that game being in my late twenties and knowing I was watching not just a QB with skills but a moment in time that would make him a legend in the future...I'm not comparing Smith to Montana doesn't even come close and is a waste of time..or to any of the others listed on this post .but what I took from that super bowl was just how cool Joe cool really was and how IN COMMAND he was. Thats what I don't see or have seen in Smith consistently game in game out..He doesn't command the offense and be the leader his position dictates at times..he gets flustered, panics,and begins to force things way to easily. Then he begins to make mistakes and once his confidence is shaken we're usually done..(Giants game as an example).. That said He's not a bad QB ,he does piss the crap out of me sometimes but with this coaching staff I really think Smith can take us to the super bowl and win it,,,as long as the whole team plays up to its potential and its not a repeat of SB XXIII...

Joe Montana was IMO the greatest qb ever to play the game. To compare most other qb's to him is a fairly futile exercise.
Smith is smart and tough in very same way as Griese and Starr, but much more athletic. He would have fit right in during the eta of QB's calling their own plays. But he would not have been on their level because he isnt as accurate. But he would have done quite well. He is the model for smart, conservative ball.