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Is Frank Gore a Top-10 All Time 49er?

Originally posted by dj43:
Different running styles but I do not agree that Craig could not have put up similar numbers if he had been in the same situation as Gore. OTOH, I believe Walsh would have turned Gore into a much better pass receiver than he has been. That part of his game looked promising early in his career but seems to have faded completely under Harbaugh.

To be honest, we are talking about two very good football players, both of whom SHOULD be in the HOF someday.

This is something I brought up in another topic. It's VERY LIKELY that Gore will eclipse the 10K yard mark by the end of this season. Still, there are MANY backs who have eclipsed this mark who are NOT YET in the H.O.F. and half of them are considered by most people unlikely to ever get in. If Gore only plays through next year he has a CHANCE at ending his career at 11K.

If you're a 49er fan you might say this is enough because we follow the team very closely and know what he means to it in and out. However, we must remember that the H.O.F. is 40% popularity contest - which is why guys like Aeneas Williams (he played 10 years for the awful Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals) have a difficult time getting in even though they deserve it.

Gore played his best years in the Dark Ages of 49er football. Do you think this, combined with the fact that there are may "lost" backs well over the 10K mark, hurt his chances? Remember, you're on the outside looking in when voting (as in not a 49er fan).
[ Edited by trellblaze on Sep 28, 2013 at 8:40 PM ]
Originally posted by Chrs0049:
Gore vs. Craig in their primes, who you got

Gore easily. craig was a beast but gore did all his damage with no outside receiver help and a qb known to not throw more than 15 yards down field most of the time. gore had a tougher time getting those yards and he still stacked the most yards for us
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by dj43:
Different running styles but I do not agree that Craig could not have put up similar numbers if he had been in the same situation as Gore. OTOH, I believe Walsh would have turned Gore into a much better pass receiver than he has been. That part of his game looked promising early in his career but seems to have faded completely under Harbaugh.

To be honest, we are talking about two very good football players, both of whom SHOULD be in the HOF someday.

This is something I brought up in another topic. It's VERY LIKELY that Gore will eclipse the 10K yard mark by the end of this season. Still, there are MANY backs who have eclipsed this mark who are NOT YET in the H.O.F. and half of them are considered by most people unlikely to ever get in. If Gore only plays through next year he has a CHANCE at ending his career at 11K.

If you're a 49er fan you might say this is enough because we follow the team very closely and know what he means to it in and out. However, we must remember that the H.O.F. is 40% popularity contest - which is why guys like Aeneas Williams (he played 10 years for the awful Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals) have a difficult time getting in even though they deserve it.

Gore played his best years in the Dark Ages of 49er football. Do you think this, combined with the fact that there are may "lost" backs well over the 10K mark, hurt his chances? Remember, you're on the outside looking in when voting (as in not a 49er fan).

If we win the Super Bowl running the football the way we ran it last night as a high profile team that the 49ers are then Gore will have enough popularity and accolades to merit a HOF bust in Canton. This is especially true if he breaks 12k in yardage!
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Gore easily. craig was a beast but gore did all his damage with no outside receiver help and a qb known to not throw more than 15 yards down field most of the time. gore had a tougher time getting those yards and he still stacked the most yards for us

I'm not calling either (I think it's a toss up) but I think you guys who are saying Gore wins "easily": 1) Never watched Craig Play, 2) Have no idea how he revolutionized the position, 3) Have no idea how important he was as a Receiver, 4) Don't understand the type of system/philosophies Bill Walsh used offensively.

The guy once had 1000+ rushing and 1000+ receiving in one season. I don't think you guys realize how rare and amazing that is.

Bottom line is that, while you can argue strongly for each player, it's FAR FAR FAR from being "easily" Gore.
It's important how many years they've played with us. Otherwise you can say Randy Moss or YA Tittle
Off the top of my head...

1.Jerry Rice
2.Joe Montana
3.Ronney Lott
4.Steve Young
5.Frank Gore


Who else?
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Gore easily. craig was a beast but gore did all his damage with no outside receiver help and a qb known to not throw more than 15 yards down field most of the time. gore had a tougher time getting those yards and he still stacked the most yards for us

I'm not calling either (I think it's a toss up) but I think you guys who are saying Gore wins "easily": 1) Never watched Craig Play, 2) Have no idea how he revolutionized the position, 3) Have no idea how important he was as a Receiver, 4) Don't understand the type of system/philosophies Bill Walsh used offensively.

The guy once had 1000+ rushing and 1000+ receiving in one season. I don't think you guys realize how rare and amazing that is.

Bottom line is that, while you can argue strongly for each player, it's FAR FAR FAR from being "easily" Gore.

nostalgia aside, gore is still the better back. just because they threw it to craig more doesnt mean hes better than gore. gore was a great receiver for us too but they dont use him like that anymore. gore is a better runner and his blocking is excellent as well. he also didnt have the benefit of that bill walsh philosophy and those all time great players to take pressure off of him. i still think its definitely frank gore. craig was awesome but i think gore is the best niner back
This should give you guys a little more insight of how close it really is.

Roger Craig: 11 yrs played - 13100 Total yards from Scrimmage - 73 Total TDs - 5.12 Yards per TOUCH (Rec & Rush combined)
Frank Gore: 9 yrs played - 11821 Total yards from Scrimmage - 63 Total TDs - 5.16 Yards per Touch

Of course we all know stats don't tell the entire story, but this is a pretty good basis for judgement.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
nostalgia aside, gore is still the better back. just because they threw it to craig more doesnt mean hes better than gore. gore was a great receiver for us too but they dont use him like that anymore. gore is a better runner and his blocking is excellent as well. he also didnt have the benefit of that bill walsh philosophy and those all time great players to take pressure off of him. i still think its definitely frank gore. craig was awesome but i think gore is the best niner back

You missed the point. First of all, I didn't say who was better. I said it was a toss up. I was arguing that it's not "easily" Frank, as you say. You imply that it's an easy choice. See the stats above.

As for Walsh's philosophy, you do realize that it was "pass to set up the run". This does not benefit a running back's rushing statistics in any way. Craig was used just as much as a receiver as he was a runner - which evened out the stats dramatically.

EDIT: And it has nothing to do with nostalgia. Craig was a nightmare for defensive coaches to plan for. You have the outside threats at WR, Joe Montana and now we gotta figure out how to stop THIS GUY? Who do you assign to cover a RB who's career high in receptions was 92?
[ Edited by trellblaze on Sep 28, 2013 at 9:07 PM ]
Originally posted by Since07:
It's important how many years they've played with us. Otherwise you can say Randy Moss or YA Tittle
Off the top of my head...

1.Jerry Rice
2.Joe Montana
3.Ronney Lott
4.Steve Young
5.Frank Gore


Who else?

i think Patrick Willis making all pro every year and being a lock for HOF definitely deserves to be in the top 10
Originally posted by trellblaze:
This should give you guys a little more insight of how close it really is.

Roger Craig: 11 yrs played - 13100 Total yards from Scrimmage - 73 Total TDs - 5.12 Yards per TOUCH (Rec & Rush combined)
Frank Gore: 9 yrs played - 11821 Total yards from Scrimmage - 63 Total TDs - 5.16 Yards per Touch

Of course we all know stats don't tell the entire story, but this is a pretty good basis for judgement.

Interesting stats. But like others have said, Frank Gore has been the centerpiece of our offense since he was promoted to the starting role in 2006 and had a pretty lackluster surrounding cast for the bulk of his time. There's no doubt in my mind that if he was in Bill Walsh's offense many years ago instead of Craig, that offense alone would've had 6 Super Bowls in the 1980s for sure.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think Patrick Willis making all pro every year and being a lock for HOF definitely deserves to be in the top 10

Assuming the second half of his career is consistent and we field great defenses until he retires, yes. He's in his prime and still isn't done yet.

We've got an impressive franchise that we're not 100% sure that elite players like Frank Gore and Patrick Willis are in the top 10 greatest for the team.
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Interesting stats. But like others have said, Frank Gore has been the centerpiece of our offense since he was promoted to the starting role in 2006 and had a pretty lackluster surrounding cast for the bulk of his time. There's no doubt in my mind that if he was in Bill Walsh's offense many years ago instead of Craig, that offense alone would've had 6 Super Bowls in the 1980s for sure.

Again, my point was not an argument of who is better. I was pointing out that it's not EASILY Gore - as in Gore wins in a no-brainer - which is what more than one poster has said.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think Patrick Willis making all pro every year and being a lock for HOF definitely deserves to be in the top 10

7 years does not make you a lock for HOF. If his career ended today he would not get in because of that.

Fortunately for us, his career does not end today.
Top 10 49ers, yes. HOF, no. Craig > Gore.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Top 10 49ers, yes. HOF, no. Craig > Gore.

Here's a guy that I'm assuming watched both players their entire career (Craig was getting close to the end when I understood the game).

Joecool, would you please give us details on why you would take Craig over Gore (If I'm correct in my assumption, that is)?