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Declining the safety

Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by lordfangio:
Originally posted by mug0mug:
The question is...Do you take the ball to kneel down and end the game with a win, or take a 2 score lead and extend the game?

You can accept a win and be done or take a bigger lead and give them a chance at the ball. Only betters and dicks on Madden would do the latter.

Again, it comes down to what seems more far-fetched, a bad QB/center exchange (which probably happens on average AT LEAST once per weekend of NFL football) and then they score once, or a team converting an onside punt, going down the field and scoring a TD, getting ANOTHER successful onside kick, and driving for ANOTHER score, all in less than 50 seconds and with no timeouts...something that doesn't exactly happen as much as merely a botched snap...I don't see how so many think the latter is clearly less far-fetched

When have you eeeeeever seen a botched victory formation snap in the NFL? We aren't talking as play where the QB is reading defenses and getting his guy into place and the center worried about getting off the ball to get his guy blocked here.

I think your reasoning is beyond far fetched and are arguing to do so at this point.

Yep, if the Lord can give me 5 examples of a botched snap on a victory formation in the history of the NFL, I will say Harbaugh made a bad decision.
Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Yep, if the Lord can give me 5 examples of a botched snap on a victory formation in the history of the NFL, I will say Harbaugh made a bad decision.

For the millionth time, can you give me an example of a successful onside punt, TD, successful onside kick, FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? Can you find an example of that in ANY level of football?? At least with the kneeldown snap we know that at Rutgers it worked for Schiano like 3 or 4 times in a single season! Plus Carroll has been documented as supporting that idea and thus an injury is a possibility there too. So at least I can cite an example from college football where kneeldowns haven't gone smoothly, can you cite me an example from ANY level of football where a team recovered an onside punt, went down the field, scored a TD, recovered ANOTHER onside kick, and went down the field AGAIN to kick a FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? It's such a weak argument to point out that something has never happened (even though it has, just not in the NFL...that we can think of off the top of our heads) when the thing it's being compared to has also never happened (at ANY level of football). It's like, if they've both never happened, WHAT THE HELL'S THE POINT OF POINTING OUT THAT ONE OF THE THINGS HAS NEVER HAPPENED???
[ Edited by lordfangio on Oct 21, 2012 at 8:44 PM ]
Originally posted by lordfangio:
Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Yep, if the Lord can give me 5 examples of a botched snap on a victory formation in the history of the NFL, I will say Harbaugh made a bad decision.

For the millionth time, can you give me an example of a successful onside punt, TD, successful onside kick, FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? Can you find an example of that in ANY level of football?? At least with the kneeldown snap we know that at Rutgers it worked for Schiano like 3 or 4 times in a single season! Plus Carroll has been documented as supporting that idea and thus an injury is a possibility there too. So at least I can cite an example from college football where kneeldowns haven't gone smoothly, can you cite me an example from ANY level of football where a team recovered an onside punt, went down the field, scored a TD, recovered ANOTHER onside kick, and went down the field AGAIN to kick a FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? It's such a weak argument to point out that something has never happened (even though it has, just not in the NFL...that we can think of off the top of our heads) when the thing it's being compared to has also never happened (at ANY level of football). It's like, if they've both never happened, WHAT THE HELL'S THE POINT OF POINTING OUT THAT ONE OF THE THINGS HAS NEVER HAPPENED???


Risk of injury outweighs chance of botching a victory snap... it is risk vs reward...
Originally posted by lordfangio:
Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Yep, if the Lord can give me 5 examples of a botched snap on a victory formation in the history of the NFL, I will say Harbaugh made a bad decision.

For the millionth time, can you give me an example of a successful onside punt, TD, successful onside kick, FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? Can you find an example of that in ANY level of football?? At least with the kneeldown snap we know that at Rutgers it worked for Schiano like 3 or 4 times in a single season! Plus Carroll has been documented as supporting that idea and thus an injury is a possibility there too. So at least I can cite an example from college football where kneeldowns haven't gone smoothly, can you cite me an example from ANY level of football where a team recovered an onside punt, went down the field, scored a TD, recovered ANOTHER onside kick, and went down the field AGAIN to kick a FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? It's such a weak argument to point out that something has never happened (even though it has, just not in the NFL...that we can think of off the top of our heads) when the thing it's being compared to has also never happened (at ANY level of football). It's like, if they've both never happened, WHAT THE HELL'S THE POINT OF POINTING OUT THAT ONE OF THE THINGS HAS NEVER HAPPENED???

Wow...Someone lost a lot of money on that game...
Since you want to play what ifs, what if we accept and on the ensuing punt one of our core special teamer's or another player hurts themselves badly?

Would we be looking back and cursing Jimmy's name for accepting it when it was unnecessary?

I think that kneeling on it was the safest play and anyone that is really pissed about it prolly lost a bet on this one.
Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Wow...Someone lost a lot of money on that game...

Nope, not a dime, and I didn't mention the spread once in that post you replied to.
9 pages?

Holy s**t, this guy.
OP totally lost a "dime"
[ Edited by Godsleftsock on Oct 21, 2012 at 10:31 PM ]
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Originally posted by lordfangio:
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Has anybody ever seen a botched kneel down?

Has anyone ever seen a recovered onside punt, TD, recovered onside kick, FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeout? You really think that's more likely than a botched snap? I disagree.

Has anyone ever seen a recovered onside punt? No, because you are not required to punt after a safety. Any team in that situation would attempt an onside kick.Your question is a trick!
Originally posted by RonMexico:
9 pages?


Originally posted by lordfangio:
2 reasons why I think this was very foolish:

1. The spread was 7.5 or 8...accepting the safety means we would have covered...now I totally understand Harbaugh never ever ever altering how he PLAYS the end to accomodate the betters, but he didn't have to CHANGE anything, just accept the penalty! Because IMO it actually IS slightly advantageous to the team to cover because you WANT people to bet on you because that means more people hoping you win which means potentially more people cheering making the crowd a bigger factor when the other team's offense is on the field. Sure it's a stretch and again, I wouldn't alter/risk anything to ensure covering, but if it's right there on the table and you don't even have to do anything to get it, take it! (not to mention he went for 2 vs. Carroll at the end in the what's your deal game when up by a million, so why turn down free points here)

2, and more importantly, suppose something bizarre happened on a kneeldown like a fumbled QB/center exchange or Carroll going Schiano on us, etc., why would you want it to be a 1 possession game and leave even a 0.00001% chance of losing when you can completely slam the door shut even more by making it a 2 possession game? It's one thing it it would have made it go from a 4 point game to a 6 point game or an 18 point game to a 20 point game or something, but this would have made it go from a 1 possession game to a 2 possession game which can be significant! (and we would have gotten the ball either way so it's not like there would have been a difference in terms of who would have the ball)

Win the game, thats what comes first.
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lol this is cray

bottom line you have two choices

Take the ball over on downs Seattle doesn't get to touch the ball again kneel down game over

or

Take the Safety and let Seattle touch the ball again

I take option one 60% of the time every time!
Originally posted by lordfangio:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
This. I can't believe I must read it was a bad move because it didnt cover the spread. Lololololl

And the award for the worst job interpreting the main point of a post goes to....................rubberneck come on down!

It was your entire first and opening paragraph and I'm supposed to not read into it? Lol. The idea that Harbaugh was supposed to risk giving Seattle the ball one more time was so ridiculous I couldn't even read the second paragraph. Every body in here thinks the correct call was made, take the win. He analyzed the situation, had the ball measured, took the ball and kneeled down to win. He did the right thing. I don't know why you are defending this idea you came up with.

Come on man. Don't get mad at people for disagreeing with you and talking about your spread idea. You typed it, not us.
Originally posted by lordfangio:
Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Yep, if the Lord can give me 5 examples of a botched snap on a victory formation in the history of the NFL, I will say Harbaugh made a bad decision.

For the millionth time, can you give me an example of a successful onside punt, TD, successful onside kick, FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? Can you find an example of that in ANY level of football?? At least with the kneeldown snap we know that at Rutgers it worked for Schiano like 3 or 4 times in a single season! Plus Carroll has been documented as supporting that idea and thus an injury is a possibility there too. So at least I can cite an example from college football where kneeldowns haven't gone smoothly, can you cite me an example from ANY level of football where a team recovered an onside punt, went down the field, scored a TD, recovered ANOTHER onside kick, and went down the field AGAIN to kick a FG, all in 43 seconds with no timeouts? It's such a weak argument to point out that something has never happened (even though it has, just not in the NFL...that we can think of off the top of our heads) when the thing it's being compared to has also never happened (at ANY level of football). It's like, if they've both never happened, WHAT THE HELL'S THE POINT OF POINTING OUT THAT ONE OF THE THINGS HAS NEVER HAPPENED???

Are you really arguing that there is an equivalent amount of risk involved in 2 victory formation kneel down snaps and covering a kick of any kind?