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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by NCommand:
What did you guys think of the gameplan yesterday? Adjustments (if any)...like or dislike?

It was half a step in the right direction. In the first half they did a good job of having quick pass plays, getting the playcall in on time with the offense already lined up with 10+ seconds on the playclock.....in the 2nd half they regressed and went potato again, playcalls started coming in late, the ball was getting snapped with 1 or 2 seconds left on the playclock, you had Dixon running the ball to the outside, more continuous runs on 1st down against a loaded box, not taking advantage of the Rams playing 10 yards off the receiver, not enough anyways.


The thing that drives me nuts is how often there's one playcall that's very successful and gets a lot of yards and then a second playcall that is plain potato and results in yards being lost. In the first half there was a flow to the offense, in the 2nd it was much more sporadic, the offense seem jumbled and confused.


It is progress, but nothing to celebrate. The Seattle game will be a huge test as to how consistent this offense can be. They won't get away with having up, down, up, down playcalls or regularly losing yards on 1st down to make it 2nd and 11...2nd and 12...2nd and 13....etc.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
It was half a step in the right direction. In the first half they did a good job of having quick pass plays, getting the playcall in on time with the offense already lined up with 10+ seconds on the playclock.....in the 2nd half they regressed and went potato again, playcalls started coming in late, the ball was getting snapped with 1 or 2 seconds left on the playclock, you had Dixon running the ball to the outside, more continuous runs on 1st down against a loaded box, not taking advantage of the Rams playing 10 yards off the receiver, not enough anyways.


The thing that drives me nuts is how often there's one playcall that's very successful and gets a lot of yards and then a second playcall that is plain potato and results in yards being lost. In the first half there was a flow to the offense, in the 2nd it was much more sporadic, the offense seem jumbled and confused.


It is progress, but nothing to celebrate. The Seattle game will be a huge test as to how consistent this offense can be. They won't get away with having up, down, up, down playcalls or regularly losing yards on 1st down to make it 2nd and 11...2nd and 12...2nd and 13....etc.

True but that was when we just run the clock out, run, run run. The niners never will throw the ball especially in the 4th qrtr up 14+ with the clock ticking

Seattle will be the true calling your correct. What scares me is what O-line will we have
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by wailers15:
True but that was when we just run the clock out, run, run run. The niners never will throw the ball especially in the 4th qrtr up 14+ with the clock ticking

Seattle will be the true calling your correct. What scares me is what O-line will we have
roman against a good team combined with a offensive line who struggled to pass protect sunday vs a much better front four should scare you. 12-6 niners as i am hoping our team will be physical. vs the hawks when they punch us we tend to retreat and you just can not do that. roman has set the bar so low for me on offense it has just come to a point for me that our offense has to over come him and win despite of roman. kind of a sad thing when you saying that about your own offensive coordinator,,,,, JH
Great ad lib plays with both Crabtree and VD (even Boldin on one). There is serious trust between he and these three, no doubt. When that AR wasn't opened or CK didn't pull the trigger, those three together on the field were much harder to cover via the ad lib. Who do you cover? I saw more 3 and 4 WR sets today which also helped and CK seemed to scan some more...showed a bit more patience and trust. I "think" the coaches gave him a few more pro-style, spread-like plays where he sat back in shot gun and picked his open reciever. I haven't had a chance to analyze the game yet for personnel packages, AR routes, progression reads, other formations but the passing game looked decent yesterday. The running game was garbage (same ol') and we still need lots of work on 1st down production (positive plays) and esp. the RZ. But it was nice to see a middle screen, short pass on first down, movement and throws outside the pocket, him sliding early, a few more ticks on the clock, etc.
we're back to square one guys.
we had been behind square one all season.
square one for us is being able to move the ball up and down the field.
and with the ability of kap it makes the offense dynamic.. and it will be better game by game.

NOW

we need to eliminate stretch runs period.
screens are good keep them going. you saw kap check down to the backs after last week not doing it. anyone with 2 eyes sees that if you tell kap to do something he does it. that's what makes him special. and now with a full compliment i want them to use that full compliment.

the 1 thing that will put us over the top is if he gets his red zone play calling act together.

if he does that we will not be able to be stopped

this week he needs to STAY AGGRESSIVE MEET THE CHALLENGE don't be cute.. BE PHYSICAL AND BEAT THEM UP

if that light bulb goes off for him... then we can actually start to do the things we felt we would do in the beginning of the season.
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
we're back to square one guys.
we had been behind square one all season.
square one for us is being able to move the ball up and down the field.
and with the ability of kap it makes the offense dynamic.. and it will be better game by game.

NOW

we need to eliminate stretch runs period.
screens are good keep them going. you saw kap check down to the backs after last week not doing it. anyone with 2 eyes sees that if you tell kap to do something he does it. that's what makes him special. and now with a full compliment i want them to use that full compliment.

the 1 thing that will put us over the top is if he gets his red zone play calling act together.

if he does that we will not be able to be stopped

this week he needs to STAY AGGRESSIVE MEET THE CHALLENGE don't be cute.. BE PHYSICAL AND BEAT THEM UP

if that light bulb goes off for him... then we can actually start to do the things we felt we would do in the beginning of the season.

I just had to comment on the stretch run thing because I'm rather amazed the Niners are so bad at it. I know they love the power run, but you would think with as athletic an o-line as the Niners have this could be a really solid addition to the running game. Gore is great at waiting for the hole to open up and Hunter is quite explosive and quick. But any time the Niners run a stretch or toss, it is blown up in the backfield. Bizarre.
[ Edited by JoeBart324 on Dec 2, 2013 at 12:35 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
What did you guys think of the gameplan yesterday? Adjustments (if any)...like or dislike?

One more note.

I'm still bothered the Niners go into this shell when they have a 10-14 point lead in the 4th quarter. I understand the intent behind forcing the opposing team to slowly drive down the field, eating up clock. What I don't understand is the extremely vanilla play calling for the Niners' offense. And I'm not talking the run-run-run sequence when the Niners were clearly going to win the game. It's the fact that going in to the second half Harbaugh and Roman seem content to try and sit on the lead. It's like they don't really want to open up that game and seal it.
The stretch run doesn't work b/c the OT isn't getting to the 2nd level to block out the LB and the WR is losing his battle with the CB. 3-5 defenders are knifing through huge gaps. But the REAL reason it doesn't work is b/c teams continue to stack 8-10 guys in the box. They are already there to defend any kind of run we do. Miss directions, end arounds, fly sweeps (remember these?), quick outs, WR screens, an option play, etc. can work b/c they often times get the defense moving one way while the play goes the other. Another successful play we've abandoned is the roll right, toss back left to VD wide open in the flat. You get the defense covering the entire field and suddenly those edges are open. Also, we've abandoned the toss left-right plays to Hunter (used to be $ on these).
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 2, 2013 at 12:54 PM ]
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
One more note.

I'm still bothered the Niners go into this shell when they have a 10-14 point lead in the 4th quarter. I understand the intent behind forcing the opposing team to slowly drive down the field, eating up clock. What I don't understand is the extremely vanilla play calling for the Niners' offense. And I'm not talking the run-run-run sequence when the Niners were clearly going to win the game. It's the fact that going in to the second half Harbaugh and Roman seem content to try and sit on the lead. It's like they don't really want to open up that game and seal it.

Yeah, I get it that the staff is just playing it close to the vest. Defense is balling and there's no need to risk anything that can get the Rams back into the game, but some of the 3rd downs with medium distance I'd like to use as practice, especially when in the 4th quarter with only 6-7 minutes left. Practice for Kap to convert on a '3rd and pass it' situation. It happened in the WAS game and again in the STL game. Just give him game time 'practice' reps to read a defense and make a play.

There was some article in the middle of the season that raised the point about how a QB can only gain experience from in-game reps and that it would take longer for Kap to gain this experience since he is on a run first team. I see some validity in that and so if a situation presents itself where he can practice with little or no negative consequences, then by all means let him sling it.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
What did you guys think of the gameplan yesterday? Adjustments (if any)...like or dislike?

It was half a step in the right direction. In the first half they did a good job of having quick pass plays, getting the playcall in on time with the offense already lined up with 10+ seconds on the playclock.....in the 2nd half they regressed and went potato again, playcalls started coming in late, the ball was getting snapped with 1 or 2 seconds left on the playclock, you had Dixon running the ball to the outside, more continuous runs on 1st down against a loaded box, not taking advantage of the Rams playing 10 yards off the receiver, not enough anyways.


The thing that drives me nuts is how often there's one playcall that's very successful and gets a lot of yards and then a second playcall that is plain potato and results in yards being lost. In the first half there was a flow to the offense, in the 2nd it was much more sporadic, the offense seem jumbled and confused.


It is progress, but nothing to celebrate. The Seattle game will be a huge test as to how consistent this offense can be. They won't get away with having up, down, up, down playcalls or regularly losing yards on 1st down to make it 2nd and 11...2nd and 12...2nd and 13....etc.

One thing I don't like about the 49ers offensive play calling is that it tends to go full retard when they have a relatively decent lead in the 2nd half. As if the game has already been decided. It really gets on my nerves because it allows teams to stick around and continue to have hope of a comeback. I understand not wanting to make any mistakes that could shift momentum, but at the same time, continuously going 3 and out also has the possibility of shifting momentum to the other team. We need to put teams away and keep them there. This means continuing to make big offensive plays, even if we are up by 14 points in the second half. Unless we are up by that much with 5 minutes or less left to play, the offense should continue to play like the game is still on the line.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Great ad lib plays with both Crabtree and VD (even Boldin on one). There is serious trust between he and these three, no doubt. When that AR wasn't opened or CK didn't pull the trigger, those three together on the field were much harder to cover via the ad lib. Who do you cover? I saw more 3 and 4 WR sets today which also helped and CK seemed to scan some more...showed a bit more patience and trust. I "think" the coaches gave him a few more pro-style, spread-like plays where he sat back in shot gun and picked his open reciever. I haven't had a chance to analyze the game yet for personnel packages, AR routes, progression reads, other formations but the passing game looked decent yesterday. The running game was garbage (same ol') and we still need lots of work on 1st down production (positive plays) and esp. the RZ. But it was nice to see a middle screen, short pass on first down, movement and throws outside the pocket, him sliding early, a few more ticks on the clock, etc.

Well the AR Decoy Offense finally has enough legit decoys that defenses can't cover effectively. Sure the passing game will look better, but again the majority of positive plays - especially the redzone TDs came off of Kap ad-libbing and not a designed, well coached, well executed offense. I was surprised we had the middle screen in the playbook and only God knows why it was called in the redzone. I expect the 49ers running game to struggle as long as teams continue to sell out to stop the run. I'm OKAY with passing under those formations because it's clearly advantage receivers when there's a ton of 1-1 coverage. However, the back shoulder throw to Q is read by a good corner is a easy pick 6. There are some throws that still concern me with Kap.

IMHO, being up by 14 points we have to continue to be aggressive. This game IMHO, was much closer than the score indicated because if the Rams don't beat themselves, it's a tie game - easily. Rogers has a lapse here and there and the pass-rush wasn't consistent at ALL. Brooks disappeared and we again rely on the FGs and the defense to win games. That won't happen again Seattle next week.

I still believe Kap is being coached poorly, and at best, he should have 4 plays to choose from - 2 runs and two passes, especially on 1st down when teams usually sell out to stop the run. If Kap sees base formation D, call the run between the tackles. If he sees 8 - 9 men in the box, call the pass. Again, not enough screens and not enough checkdowns to RBs and receivers running shallow crosses. Kap - interesting enough like Alex - get's locked on to the AR and waits, waits, waits, for someone to come open. That - IMHO, isn't a player issue, that's a coaching/offense design/philosophy issue.
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I just had to comment on the stretch run thing because I'm rather amazed the Niners are so bad at it. I know they love the power run, but you would think with as athletic an o-line as the Niners have this could be a really solid addition to the running game. Gore is great at waiting for the hole to open up and Hunter is quite explosive and quick. But any time the Niners run a stretch or toss, it is blown up in the backfield. Bizarre.

not really, we don't do those things in practice. just like we hadn't been doing screens in practice. so that's the problem. they have the talent to do it but they're not comfortable doing it. and that comfort only comes with practice. now if they had been doing it since training camp it would probably one of our best plays.
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
One more note.

I'm still bothered the Niners go into this shell when they have a 10-14 point lead in the 4th quarter. I understand the intent behind forcing the opposing team to slowly drive down the field, eating up clock. What I don't understand is the extremely vanilla play calling for the Niners' offense. And I'm not talking the run-run-run sequence when the Niners were clearly going to win the game. It's the fact that going in to the second half Harbaugh and Roman seem content to try and sit on the lead. It's like they don't really want to open up that game and seal it.

conservative has been the #1 issue.

sphincters are too tight in the booth.

when we're up by a lot we need to run a 4 minute offense, not a vanilla one. one that guarantees we take up 4 minutes of time move the ball and possibly get points. we're not trying to get a td but if we eat up the clock run 9-10 plays take 4 or 5 mins off the clock and score points..you put the game away like that.

not the constant trade off crap
Originally posted by NCommand:
The stretch run doesn't work b/c the OT isn't getting to the 2nd level to block out the LB and the WR is losing his battle with the CB. 3-5 defenders are knifing through huge gaps. But the REAL reason it doesn't work is b/c teams continue to stack 8-10 guys in the box. They are already there to defend any kind of run we do. Miss directions, end arounds, fly sweeps (remember these?), quick outs, WR screens, an option play, etc. can work b/c they often times get the defense moving one way while the play goes the other. Another successful play we've abandoned is the roll right, toss back left to VD wide open in the flat. You get the defense covering the entire field and suddenly those edges are open. Also, we've abandoned the toss left-right plays to Hunter (used to be $ on these).

true but we should bring them back. and make it a point to get gore geared up again to go along with the passing game. its like he can't do both. call a good passing and running game.

but whatever it is we have to be aggressive from here on out. HAVE to be and not lose our identity

power it up
Next game is on his shoulders

we know the defense can stop the seahawks offense
it's been our offense that has cost us these games.

if he reverts fire him.