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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
boldin is a great chain mov r but he should not be a no1 wr on any team at this point in his career. rio at his best has never been more then a good no3. as for baldwin, if the chiefs were willing to swap him out for our bust of a pick then he couldnt have been that good in the first place

I don't know about this, man. Boldin's been a God-send to SF, but he can't catch what is not thrown to him. Boldin was impressing the heck out of everyone here in the first quarter of the season... coincidentally, he averaged about 9 targets per game. The last 6 games, he has had under 4 targets per game. Boldin is old, and won't get behind too many CBs these days... but he has a nice catch radius and strong hands to come down with anything reasonably thrown to him. He is really just an older Crabtree with a little better ability to catch in traffic, but a little less YAC ability.

... and Rio is a solid #2... not spectacular..
... and Baldwin just needed a fresh start somewhere else. Talented, but hasn't put it all together. He has been thrown to EIGHT times since being a 49er.

You just cant know what you have in some receivers until you throw the ball to them. Otherwise, it's just what allowed personnel can see during the practice weeks. Looking ahead, SF needs to spend a high draft pick on WR... no doubt about that much.

100% spot ON!

we agree on boldin, being chain mover and clutch isn't a bad role at all. Maybe being labeled as chain mover sounds bad but wasn't meant that way.

We gotta disagree about Rio though. If the core was healthy from the start I really think he would have been the teams no3 wr. He was on his way to that role in NY before we signed him.

I may have been a little harsh on Baldwin. He hasn't had the looks and it seems to be by design which is ,smh, on the coaches.

No doubt this team needs help in next years draft
[ Edited by Allx9er on Nov 22, 2013 at 8:30 AM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
We beat teams w/losing records on our talent not on any great game plan.

When we have to play a "Contender" like the Saints - our fabulous Defense keeps us in the game.

BUT Roman's "genius" establishes the 3 & out.
30 second drives
It's nice to see Young go a little deeper here w/o dismissing the possibility that CK may be the real issue as well: "Young on the offensive performance against the Saints, which included 196 yards and touchdown drives of 11 and 22 yards: "It's alarming. It's fundamentally alarming. You got a phenomenal defensive effort on the road in a tough place and you come up with less than 200 yards. In the end, yards aren't everything. But yards are something. And when you are playing championship football, you don't keep coming up with almost no yards. I mean, literally, if the ball doesn't get turned over, we don't even get close to the end zone. I mean there's something amiss. Right?" He questions everything, starting with type of offense we run. http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/11/21/steve-young-on-49ers-struggles-if-it-is-fundamental-to-the-qb-spot-my-gosh/
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 22, 2013 at 8:34 AM ]
  • sfout
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Originally posted by NCommand:
It's nice to see Young go a little deeper here w/o dismissing the possibility that CK may be the real issue as well: "Young on the offensive performance against the Saints, which included 196 yards and touchdown drives of 11 and 22 yards: "It's alarming. It's fundamentally alarming. You got a phenomenal defensive effort on the road in a tough place and you come up with less than 200 yards. In the end, yards aren't everything. But yards are something. And when you are playing championship football, you don't keep coming up with almost no yards. I mean, literally, if the ball doesn't get turned over, we don't even get close to the end zone. I mean there's something amiss. Right?" He questions everything, starting with type of offense we run. http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/11/21/steve-young-on-49ers-struggles-if-it-is-fundamental-to-the-qb-spot-my-gosh/

I really enjoyed reading earlier today. He called everyone out, saying that the issue is prevalent and easily noticed by the rest of the league, saying if we don't right the ship against a terrible pass D like Washington it may be time to for a drastic shift.

Very happy to see him eloquently state that we obviously handicapped Kaepernick by going back to 2011 small ball and that yes it got us a 5 game win streak but we need to change it up.
And I agree...think it starts with the offensive philosophy and has a ripple effect from there (not to say or even minimize those issues either). Man, when this team loses, they ALL find a way to lose.
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 22, 2013 at 9:26 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
And I agree...think it starts with the offensive philosophy and has a ripple effect from there (not to say or even minimize those issues either). Man, when this team loses, they ALL find a way to lose.

this harbaugh led 49er teams reminds me of my detroit pistons from 2003-2008. we were a great team, could beat anyone anywhere and often did. but on those days when we didnt have it, we REALLY didnt have it and put it a terribly sloppy game.
Agreed crab...it is quite remarkable. Horrendous call inside 3 minutes, not one but TWO special teams coverage issues, OL can't suddenly pass block, can't run, can't throw, OC's can't pick up the easiest of a defenses pattern (ALL GAME LONG), Harbaugh finds a way to throw in his crap too (time outs, challenge calls, penalties), etc. Usually, there are big turovers as well. Dropped INT's, didn't recover a fumble IN OUR HANDS, etc. It just never ends.
I'm glad the steve young comments are being quoted here. I thought it was a great read and really framed things correctly.
  • sfout
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Originally posted by Allx9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
boldin is a great chain mov r but he should not be a no1 wr on any team at this point in his career. rio at his best has never been more then a good no3. as for baldwin, if the chiefs were willing to swap him out for our bust of a pick then he couldnt have been that good in the first place

I don't know about this, man. Boldin's been a God-send to SF, but he can't catch what is not thrown to him. Boldin was impressing the heck out of everyone here in the first quarter of the season... coincidentally, he averaged about 9 targets per game. The last 6 games, he has had under 4 targets per game. Boldin is old, and won't get behind too many CBs these days... but he has a nice catch radius and strong hands to come down with anything reasonably thrown to him. He is really just an older Crabtree with a little better ability to catch in traffic, but a little less YAC ability.

... and Rio is a solid #2... not spectacular..
... and Baldwin just needed a fresh start somewhere else. Talented, but hasn't put it all together. He has been thrown to EIGHT times since being a 49er.

You just cant know what you have in some receivers until you throw the ball to them. Otherwise, it's just what allowed personnel can see during the practice weeks. Looking ahead, SF needs to spend a high draft pick on WR... no doubt about that much.

100% spot ON!

we agree on boldin, being chain mover and clutch isn't a bad role at all. Maybe being labeled as chain mover sounds bad but wasn't meant that way.

We gotta disagree about Rio though. If the core was healthy from the start I really think he would have been the teams no3 wr. He was on his way to that role in NY before we signed him.

I may have been a little harsh on Baldwin. He hasn't had the looks and it seems to be by design which is ,smh, on the coaches.

No doubt this team needs help in next years draft

As Crabtree said after the 2011 NFCCG

"Sometimes you just gotta move the ball, man," Crabtree said. "You gotta make plays. You gotta give people a chance to make plays. You gotta make plays."

We can't exactly judge Baldwin when we aren't throwing him the ball. Everyone was ready to kill Crabtree after the NFCC but when you only get targeted 5 times and I can't recall if they were even all catchable you can't expect the guy to take over the game. Same goes for Baldwin, he has supposedly been sick and our dumb offensive scheme hardly calls for 3 let alone 4 WRs to be on the field so you know he won't see that many targets.

That long bomb to Baldwin that was incomplete was thrown to early by Kaepernick cause he was pressured and it was going out of bounds anyway. Baldwin would've had to have been perfect at high-pointing the ball and probably still would've been pushed out of bounds anyway.

Baldwin by the way has been "targeted" 9 times and caught 3 of them. I would like to know how many of the 5 other passes were even catchable or if he was just in the area of a throwaway.
[ Edited by sfout on Nov 22, 2013 at 10:34 AM ]
Agree. I think Baldwin has had two, three higher % throws and made all of them (despite throws wide, behind him, high, etc.). WAY too small a sample size. Since we run an AR passing attack, how hard would it be to scheme HIM open on higher % throws? Why are all these low % passes expected to be made with play calls to Baldwin, McDonald, etc. This is not how you best take advantage of a WR's strength, build up confidence and rhythm or "development" into your offense during the season. Poor POOR job top-to-bottom.
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 22, 2013 at 11:33 AM ]
Also, more scheme issues: "The 49ers routinely found themselves in second-and-long situations after using "22" personnel on 14 of their 22 first-down plays in New Orleans. (AP). Last season, the 49ers had a 60.3-percent success rate using two backs and two tight ends (or 22 personnel) on first downs, according to the research of Jeff Deeney, analyst for Pro Football Focus. Success on first down is defined as a gain of more than 3 yards. This season, the 49ers' success rate on first down is just 44.7 percent. In the team's 23-20 loss to the New Orleans Saints on Sunday, the 49ers routinely found themselves in second-and-long situations after using "22" personnel on 14 of their 22 first-down plays." http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-offense-not-experiencing-catch-22
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 22, 2013 at 12:41 PM ]
"With the 49ers showing a run-heavy personnel grouping, the Saints defense stacked the box with eight, nine and, sometimes even 10 defenders close to the line of scrimmage. The 49ers managed just 21 rushing yards on 11 first-down plays (1.9-yard average) while in 22 personnel. And the 49ers had even less success throwing on first down out of that personnel group with one completion in three attempts for 1 yard." Now THAT is a one-sided chess match!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Also, more scheme issues: "The 49ers routinely found themselves in second-and-long situations after using "22" personnel on 14 of their 22 first-down plays in New Orleans. (AP). Last season, the 49ers had a 60.3-percent success rate using two backs and two tight ends (or 22 personnel) on first downs, according to the research of Jeff Deeney, analyst for Pro Football Focus. Success on first down is defined as a gain of more than 3 yards. This season, the 49ers' success rate on first down is just 44.7 percent. In the team's 23-20 loss to the New Orleans Saints on Sunday, the 49ers routinely found themselves in second-and-long situations after using "22" personnel on 14 of their 22 first-down plays." http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-offense-not-experiencing-catch-22
So that's the formation where we only have one Wr on the field.

Vance McDonald hasn't given us much production. No surprise these two tight ends aren't working as well as they did with Delanie last season.
[ Edited by Hopper on Nov 22, 2013 at 12:52 PM ]
Yes it is. Also, it's a little unfair to compare McDonald to Walker's role with us b/c right now, d/t the complexities of this offense, MILLER is the Walker role (3rd on the team in targets). The bottom line is, we haven't used McDonald as an AR much (save for a low % pass here and there). And he's still young and has been, for the first 2/3rds of season, honing in on blocking. Once Roman starts utilizing McDonald in the safety net/soft zones/as an AR (if ever), he is going to be a nightmare mismatch for LBers and DB's.
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 22, 2013 at 1:03 PM ]
Not counting him out yet, but I simply don't share your optimism for McDonald. He just hasn't done much outside of blocking.