Greg Roman, is he really good?

The niners offense is complex for the sole purpose of being complex... IE: it adds almost nothing to a play but makes it seem like we are doing something a genius would do.

Its pathetic, this game I called out over half the plays of whether it was a stretch run, run up the middle, PA fake or deep routes with minimal protection... its sad. Roman needs to GTFO by Monday, promote Rathman and give him a chance. Otherwise, if we make the playoffs we are one and done.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by sfout:
The most basic problem I have with our inability to get the play in on time is that it allows the pass rush to just get on the gas at 1 second left on the play clock. We either call the TO, get a delay or maybe 1 out of 10 times or less get lucky and get an offsides call.

It is pretty damn hard to have a route develop, much less give ANY QB the necessary time to go through his reads when the defense doesn't have to guess when the ball is being snapped thereby delaying their reaction time by even the slightest of margins. Football after is a game of inches and seconds -- we do not give our offense the best chance to perform because we routinely run the play clock down to zero. The D just pins their ears back and guns it for the QB and that is why Alex TOOK so many sacks in years past and why Kaepernick looks like a deer caught in headlights this year.

This x 1000, pass rushes come at the 49ers full bore because they can see the play clock running down pretty much each and every time.

Agreed... there is no such thing as the "element of surprise" if an offense is struggling just to get the play off in time

Originally posted by 5280High:
The niners offense is complex for the sole purpose of being complex... IE: it adds almost nothing to a play but makes it seem like we are doing something a genius would do.

Its pathetic, this game I called out over half the plays of whether it was a stretch run, run up the middle, PA fake or deep routes with minimal protection... its sad. Roman needs to GTFO by Monday, promote Rathman and give him a chance. Otherwise, if we make the playoffs we are one and done.

Me too! I literally called out pass play left or right and run play left or right for 2+ series and didn't get it wrong so I just quit.

Originally posted by 5280High:
The niners offense is complex for the sole purpose of being complex... IE: it adds almost nothing to a play but makes it seem like we are doing something a genius would do.

Its pathetic, this game I called out over half the plays of whether it was a stretch run, run up the middle, PA fake or deep routes with minimal protection... its sad. Roman needs to GTFO by Monday, promote Rathman and give him a chance. Otherwise, if we make the playoffs we are one and done.

Defenses aren't fooled, they aren't reacting like they were back in 2011, they are hiding their own shifts until just before the ball is snapped, what results is a boring, predictable offense that defenses are picking apart easily.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The offense KC is running under Reid, is something that the 49ers could use very effectively, a true WCO that uses all areas of the field, this s**t that Roman/Harbaugh have going look like some archaic leftovers from Bears offenses of the 1980's. Its like they make it complicated just to make it complicated not because the offense is anymore effective as a result.

I'm fully in agreement. I don't think the Niners need to return to a replica of the Bill Walsh era WCO to be a successful franchise, but the passing concepts and route trees the current team runs seem rudimentary.

I'm often reminded of an article I read a while ago about Peyton Manning's offense and that it was largely based off a simple "levels" concept on virtually every passing play. It's not complicated whatsoever and if run correctly will usually result in some receiver being open. The whole goal is to stretch the defense both horizontally and vertically. The QB just needs to go through the progressions and find the guy to throw to. I think the Niners are running an offense that uses clearout route concepts rather than a progression system. If the secondary receivers cannot clearout the defense for the primary read there is no other read to go to. Defenses have keyed in on this and have largely shut down the Niners passing offense.

Again, this comes back to talent levels. When the Niners have better overall talent than the opposition, they can just pound them into submission, much like a college team does against lesser schools. When talent levels are fairly equal, this system struggles as we've seen.

Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I'm fully in agreement. I don't think the Niners need to return to a replica of the Bill Walsh era WCO to be a successful franchise, but the passing concepts and route trees the current team runs seem rudimentary.

I'm often reminded of an article I read a while ago about Peyton Manning's offense and that it was largely based off a simple "levels" concept on virtually every passing play. It's not complicated whatsoever and if run correctly will usually result in some receiver being open. The whole goal is to stretch the defense both horizontally and vertically. The QB just needs to go through the progressions and find the guy to throw to. I think the Niners are running an offense that uses clearout route concepts rather than a progression system. If the secondary receivers cannot clearout the defense for the primary read there is no other read to go to. Defenses have keyed in on this and have largely shut down the Niners passing offense.

Again, this comes back to talent levels. When the Niners have better overall talent than the opposition, they can just pound them into submission. When talent levels are fairly equal, this system struggles as we've seen.

Pretty much this, today we saw Kaepernick take off and scramble and you had WR's no turning around, not breaking off their routes, guys were blocking way downfield, he basically had nobody to throw the ball to. It is simply unacceptable on every level.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I'm fully in agreement. I don't think the Niners need to return to a replica of the Bill Walsh era WCO to be a successful franchise, but the passing concepts and route trees the current team runs seem rudimentary.

I'm often reminded of an article I read a while ago about Peyton Manning's offense and that it was largely based off a simple "levels" concept on virtually every passing play. It's not complicated whatsoever and if run correctly will usually result in some receiver being open. The whole goal is to stretch the defense both horizontally and vertically. The QB just needs to go through the progressions and find the guy to throw to. I think the Niners are running an offense that uses clearout route concepts rather than a progression system. If the secondary receivers cannot clearout the defense for the primary read there is no other read to go to. Defenses have keyed in on this and have largely shut down the Niners passing offense.

Again, this comes back to talent levels. When the Niners have better overall talent than the opposition, they can just pound them into submission. When talent levels are fairly equal, this system struggles as we've seen.

Pretty much this, today we saw Kaepernick take off and scramble and you had WR's no turning around, not breaking off their routes, guys were blocking way downfield, he basically had nobody to throw the ball to. It is simply unacceptable on every level.

So true and sooooo agravating.

There is no progression, also evidenced by the way a QB rolls out away for the side of the field with the majority of receivers and force it to the only receiver in the direction of the roll out. Our offense plays checkers, the rest of the NFL is playing chess.

I pray Roman is watching this Denver KC game. These are NFL plays being called.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:

I pray Roman is watching this Denver KC game. These are NFL plays being called.

You know he aint.......dude probably eating taco bell right now

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
I pray Roman is watching this Denver KC game. These are NFL plays being called.

He's actually watching old tapes of Nebraska in the 80s, trying to come up with some more clever playcalling.

Roman reminds me of Mike Martz in that they both have a one track mind and refuse to adapt.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
I pray Roman is watching this Denver KC game. These are NFL plays being called.

Me too. And not just the play calls/concepts.

Have you seen the play clock ticking down on any play yet? It could be NBC's coverage, but neither team seems terribly pressed to snap the ball before the play clock expires. The Niners routinely snap the ball with 1 second left, and this is with Kaep not even having time to read the defense. That is simply getting the play off after doing all the Niners' ridiculous pre snap movements.

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by TlSSER:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/29/offensive-innovator-chris-ault-leaves-nevada-could-head-to-nfl/

"I have a lot left in me," Ault said. "I'm in my offensive prime. I feel good about where I'm at. My energy level is still very high. Whether I coach again, I don't know."

Ault is an innovative offensive mind who created a modified shotgun offense that he calls the "pistol," and he has a lot of admirers among the NFL coaching ranks. Those admirers include 49ers offensive coordinator Greg Roman, who traveled to Nevada to learn from Ault and has started employing a lot of Ault's concepts in the 49ers' offense, run by one of Ault's former quarterbacks, Colin Kaepernick.

We hired Paul Wulff after Washington State fired him, he is now a "Senior Offensive Consultant" or something of that nature. At minimum I could see Ault being hired in a similar capacity but at the same time I wouldn't bat an eyelash if we made him OC, especially because we apparently have 3 play callers already. Roman with running game, WR coach Morton with the passing game, QB coach Chryst with red zone plays.

This f'in Morton jackwad needs to go. But, now that you say he coaches the passing game it makes sense. So...the prevailing question here is, what does Harbaugh do?

Originally posted by BadgerHawk:
This f'in Morton jackwad needs to go. But, now that you say he coaches the passing game it makes sense. So...the prevailing question here is, what does Harbaugh do?

Most of these guys have very mediocre NFL backgrounds, Chryst, Morton..etc....very little to praise, the highlight of their careers has been as generic "offensive assistants", Morton's claim to fame has largely been in coaching TE's and OL, just like Roman. Morton coached the passing game for Harbaugh at San Diego State and he was OC at USC for a season, however none of that inspires nor impresses me, plenty of college level guys who haven't panned out and so far I haven't seen anything from the passing offense or improvement in the receivers to make me not think that Morton is in over his head.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Most of these guys have very mediocre NFL backgrounds, Chryst, Morton..etc....very little to praise, the highlight of their careers has been as generic "offensive assistants", Morton's claim to fame has largely been in coaching TE's and OL, just like Roman. Morton coached the passing game for Harbaugh at San Diego State and he was OC at USC for a season, however none of that inspires nor impresses me, plenty of college level guys who haven't panned out and so far I haven't seen anything from the passing offense or improvement in the receivers to make me not think that Morton is in over his head.

we don't even need to change anything but the person calling the plays.

hand over the playbook im sure there are lots of plays we don't use because of roman

just take the playbook get someone who is decisive and can make a call quickly that makes sense and our offense would be unstoppable.

this loser just wants gadget plays and 1 man routes

just don't even let him back into the facility.

that

or jim has to take control of the play calling total control of them. and the game plan.

what does jim do all week? cause know vic handles the defense by himself and they've been STELLAR

so what do jim and greg do?