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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Last yr at this time I was commenting that Alex, and later Kap needed to get that puppy gone in under 3 seconds. Cutler, it is, I think , doesn't take a step backward or two or 3. He drops his right foot backward at LOS, and zips it. Interesting concept. Kap getting it gone is exactly what I must have written over a hundred times last yr and then after games 2 and 3 this yr. Somehow, against non elite teams he has it going. The 5, 7 step drops that I actually hate, would get rammycackled every time he tries, them, especially N.O, and SEA...but add, INDY, KC, and Denver. Remember, we are playing exactly the types of teams Kap needs to learn on right now, and for last 4 games(altho, Texans game was a big surprise). So if kap keeps his release under 3 seconds, I think we are golden. More than that and the OL flat out can't handle it. Best runblocking OL in the game. ...but on passing down, that ball HAS TO BE GONE IN UNDER 3 SECONDS. Obviously roman and JH didn't read what I wrote, but they finally came to something that was as obvious as the nose on their faces. They are paying attn.

Kap's progress, from my eyes, matches that of roman ( or maybe JH), whoever has the final say. Good play calls, kap plays well. Shiddy play calls, kap plays like , well, you know. But the playcalling has taken a monster step forward. Under 3 second passes were the thing to have done last yr. They were the thing to do this yr. Fortunately our HC finally saw it. Good on JH...and roman. Question now is will roman and JH turn turtle (upside down ) against the elites? I sure hope not, as they have it going now, and having Frank isn't a bad guy to have if you are a QB. I will say that running him into a box 8 or like in last 5 games a box 10 at times, is not going to fly against N.O. or SEA. Kap and roman have to get a check off on box 8s (or more), and get them off the LOS. Frank just took an unmerciful pounding. One can only do that so long. And no one else on the team can do what frank does, so it needs to get changed and quickly. Kap's next job is to learn to switch to a one stepper next time he sees a box 8, or 10.
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
I think you're underestimating what he's doing.
All the top qb's in the nfl make the read before snap know where they're going and get it out in a hurry. all the elite guys, rogers, manning, brees, they do this. so yes predetermined is not a bad thing imo.

the problem is we need to scheme plays that account for when a predetermined read doesn't become open. he see's a match up he likes he goes to it. when vernon or mac are 1 on 1 he goes to them.

we need to give him the 2nd and 3rd options, think about how many times does he even have a wr or running back to check down to? not often and usually after the 3 or 4 second ideal pass blocking window then someone like gore or miller slips out.

it's getting there. you can see it turning. keep the running game powerful and then connect on big passing plays.


also it cannot be stressed enough that he has not played with the wr he was most comfortable with last season at any point this season.

he has build it with boldin. he just doesn't trust kyle.

but when he has boldin and davis and crabtree and manningham to throw to? i think a lot of tunes will change.

then spreading it around won't be an issue. it'll be how come he hasn't done this all year, ignoring the obvious answer.

to put it into perspective

how is luck going to do without wayne now?

how would romo do without dez?


take all of those players away from their teams for the entire season so far, what do their stats look like?

see what i mean?

Agreed. My contention though is that HaRoMan dictate the play call and CK goes with it no matter what...you can CLEARLY see formations where the defense stacks 10 in the box and we don't check out of it and run into a brick wall. Another indication is how poor we are on 1st down production. It's all-or-nothing. The same can be seen with the near 5 INT's in 17 passes. Whatever the pass play is, CK knows the annointed receiver must get that ball, whether it's double or even triple coverage. Why? B/c he is doing what he is coached to do and the coaches are trusting VD/Boldin will win their 1on1's and the rest of the cast will do their decoy/blocking duties to perfection as well. Trust. That is fundamentally different than CK walking up to the line, reading the defense, checking to the single-covered WR and pre-determing THAT is who he is going to. In fact, if CK walks up to the line and has more than 4 or 5 seconds, it's a small miracle!

I do agree with you that with guys such as McDonald, Gore, Hunter, Miller and even James, we should have NO issues providing outlets for CK is that annointed receiver (VD or Boldin) is initially covered and it becomes an ad lib play. In fact, like in Seattle, CK should be practicing these ad lib plays with the aforementioned b/c collectively, we're a poor ad lib team esp. in the RZ. Again, all or nothing. Roman has GOT to have outlets for his young QB. Period.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. My contention though is that HaRoMan dictate the play call and CK goes with it no matter what...you can CLEARLY see formations where the defense stacks 10 in the box and we don't check out of it and run into a brick wall. Another indication is how poor we are on 1st down production. It's all-or-nothing. The same can be seen with the near 5 INT's in 17 passes. Whatever the pass play is, CK knows the annointed receiver must get that ball, whether it's double or even triple coverage. Why? B/c he is doing what he is coached to do and the coaches are trusting VD/Boldin will win their 1on1's and the rest of the cast will do their decoy/blocking duties to perfection as well. Trust. That is fundamentally different than CK walking up to the line, reading the defense, checking to the single-covered WR and pre-determing THAT is who he is going to. In fact, if CK walks up to the line and has more than 4 or 5 seconds, it's a small miracle!

I do agree with you that with guys such as McDonald, Gore, Hunter, Miller and even James, we should have NO issues providing outlets for CK is that annointed receiver (VD or Boldin) is initially covered and it becomes an ad lib play. In fact, like in Seattle, CK should be practicing these ad lib plays with the aforementioned b/c collectively, we're a poor ad lib team esp. in the RZ. Again, all or nothing. Roman has GOT to have outlets for his young QB. Period.

that's all it is. but due to his scheming it brings the stigma onto kap that he's a 1 read qb and can't go through progressions. and the lazy analyst don't take the time to see that he only has 1 read by design.

take off the kid gloves let this guy be great. on the run scrambling with options we see what he can do.

and without his #1 wr and #3 wr playing a snap this season he's got this team at 5-2

and i don't count almost interceptions because the windows are tight and it comes down to either you made the play or you didn't
I'd be concerned if the interceptions were more like the one to pollard where it was overthrown than the ones where it was tight coverage but an accurate pass.

he doesn't do the sailing or head scratching throws often so we should be thankful for that
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
that's all it is. but due to his scheming it brings the stigma onto kap that he's a 1 read qb and can't go through progressions. and the lazy analyst don't take the time to see that he only has 1 read by design.

take off the kid gloves let this guy be great. on the run scrambling with options we see what he can do.

and without his #1 wr and #3 wr playing a snap this season he's got this team at 5-2

and i don't count almost interceptions because the windows are tight and it comes down to either you made the play or you didn't
I'd be concerned if the interceptions were more like the one to pollard where it was overthrown than the ones where it was tight coverage but an accurate pass.

he doesn't do the sailing or head scratching throws often so we should be thankful for that

You are absolutely right...and guys like Karlos Dansby are watching and breaking down film and saying he's a one-read QB. Not true. He is passing by design. By our offensive game plan. CK is a very smart guy...this is nothing on him at all. I think the pre-determined plays are great when they work (simple for the QB, out in under 3 seconds, etc.). It's when we play good qulaity competition that I feel this coaching staff is coming up short of helping CK (and this offense). You have GOT to have built in short outlets or work collectively, on ad libing better. Don't rely on his legs always.

You're right, it is what it is...I just wanted to highlight that CK is being the good soldier and passing into double and triple couple coverages here...more to highlight the type of offense we run and coaching. He is certainly completing some of those. VD made a great play on breaking up an INT as well.

There are some mechanics he needs to work on, footwork, timing, arch, leading, etc. but when he's on, he is tough to stop!
Originally posted by NCommand:
You are absolutely right...and guys like Karlos Dansby are watching and breaking down film and saying he's a one-read QB. Not true. He is passing by design. By our offensive game plan. CK is a very smart guy...this is nothing on him at all. I think the pre-determined plays are great when they work (simple for the QB, out in under 3 seconds, etc.). It's when we play good qulaity competition that I feel this coaching staff is coming up short of helping CK (and this offense). You have GOT to have built in short outlets or work collectively, on ad libing better. Don't rely on his legs always.

You're right, it is what it is...I just wanted to highlight that CK is being the good soldier and passing into double and triple couple coverages here...more to highlight the type of offense we run and coaching. He is certainly completing some of those. VD made a great play on breaking up an INT as well.

There are some mechanics he needs to work on, footwork, timing, arch, leading, etc. but when he's on, he is tough to stop!

And that's the thing that our young coaching staff hasn't put together yet. its 1 or the other. they have not figured out how to scheme a play for 1 person to get open but still leave options in case it doesn't work. i know it doesn't seem like it but this is their 3rd year, roman doesn't have it figure out yet and he needed to admit that. The 2 losses humbled him and im glad it happened then so we could get back on track.

But even if you say ok we want vd or boldin deep on this one, ok good

but what if they cover it?

now he needs a 2nd 3rd 4th option to throw it to after he sees if the primary is open. like the vance play where he scrambled, cannot stress that play enough. his primary didn't come open, he bought time, vance worked with the qb and he found him.

he did the same thing last week in the red zone but the defender made a heck of a play and tipped it but that would have been a touch down.

let the others stop being full on decoys. make them key in on everyone
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
And that's the thing that our young coaching staff hasn't put together yet. its 1 or the other. they have not figured out how to scheme a play for 1 person to get open but still leave options in case it doesn't work. i know it doesn't seem like it but this is their 3rd year, roman doesn't have it figure out yet and he needed to admit that. The 2 losses humbled him and im glad it happened then so we could get back on track.

But even if you say ok we want vd or boldin deep on this one, ok good

but what if they cover it?

now he needs a 2nd 3rd 4th option to throw it to after he sees if the primary is open. like the vance play where he scrambled, cannot stress that play enough. his primary didn't come open, he bought time, vance worked with the qb and he found him.

he did the same thing last week in the red zone but the defender made a heck of a play and tipped it but that would have been a touch down.

let the others stop being full on decoys. make them key in on everyone

Couldn;t agree more. IF you have no built in receiving options then you HAVE to at least practice ad lib plays. Period.
I hope the Niners "forget" to pack Roman for the trip home.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by PrisonOfGlass:
I hope the Niners "forget" to pack Roman for the trip home.


yeah, if only we would be that lucky.
Turning my focus to Morton, jeep, harbaugh, since these two guys are designing the pass plays and harbaugh is the last guy on the mike.
Much as I have written negatively about roman, he has looked better against weak competition. My question is can he bring the same game to N.O. and against SEA? Maybe ATL, but they are a hard squad to figure out...except they were terribly overated, or rather matty ice was.

The fine changes between roman now and roman before is the 3 steps and sling it. Not too hard to figure out with an OL that gives you 3 steps...and that's it. Now the next step for roman is to have an automatic check off if 8,9 or 10 guys are camped out on the LOS. In the games we lost, we ran into a 10 man line so many times it was sickening. That doesn't work, and why an OC like roman or Coach H don't get that is way beyond me. But it is truth, and we gotta change that. Heck they did that to frank last week and he had 70 yds on 24 carries and got the krap beaten out of him. Any team showing a 10 man or 8 man line, we gotta throw a 1 stepper. So fast that nobody on D can react. Give them a 3 step look and its a sack.
No doubt.

Obviously being 5 yards from winning the last Superbowl is a clear indication Roman doesn't know what he's doing.
Originally posted by 49erWay:
No doubt.

Obviously being 5 yards from winning the last Superbowl is a clear indication Roman doesn't know what he's doing.

clearly when gore is healthy their is plenty of time and we have timeouts to use in order to get the 5 yards.

do you honestly believe that gore would not have gotten 5 yards on 3 rushes against that defense? especially with nata out of the game?

let's be real
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by 49erWay:
No doubt.

Obviously being 5 yards from winning the last Superbowl is a clear indication Roman doesn't know what he's doing.

what the hell did he do then? even little james got two yards vs a run stacked defense,, then he brings back gore in as a f**king decoy,,, how can you defend that? even dixon would have scored.. this is so typical of roman bathwater drinkers,,,,,, we slobber all over him because he got us to the five yard line but then quietly ignore the fact he totally f**ked up at crunch time, good lord
  • Jcool
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Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout

#Bucs next coach likely to be a player-friendly coach. Would be wise to grab a QB guru to fill only real hole. So...Greg Roman?