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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Well I have to give it JH - he's great at recruiting coaches. Jim Leavitt, Fangio, Donnatell, - all those folks are seriously legit and Donatell ran Green Bay's entire defense for s stint during their height. And was smart to keep Tomsula.

It's the offense I'm concerned about. Drevno is leaving and that leaves us with Solari who I think is OK. I know Solari is well respected and was a McKittrick disciple but he's been here since the Jimmy Raye days and I just don't think we're that much better at pass-blocking. I prefer zone schemes and he's more a man specialist. I guess better for the running game. I thought the addition of Drevno was critical. Geep Chryst - meh. I don't even know WHO the WR coach is and I know he's done an abysmal job. Roman and Mangini. The offensive staff is pretty weaksauce if you asked me.


Notice how all those guys are on the defensive side of the ball? His defensive coaching staff is excellent, as far as the offensive coaching staff, I'm not especially sold on any of them. I haven't seen any stellar improvement or even slight improvement at OL, WR, RB, even TE, nothing to write home about at least.

You know I am just now looking at that and noticing it!

Leavitt was rumored to be a NFL HC candidate before Harbaugh came around, at the very least a coordinator. I remember when he was hired - it was coup that he came to us as a LB coach. Previous to that he was a HC at USF - (Uof Southern Florida) and has 30 years of coaching experience. We wonder why our LB corps is so stellar and is the best in the NFL? Look who's coaching those guys. No one on the offensive side even comes close to this - maybe Solari.

I completely agree - the offensive side of the ball I really think if was somewhat on par with the defense, this thread wouldn't be necessary AT ALL.

I'm not saying that JH is terrible, but looks to me he really doesn't have anyone on staff that can really challenge or even advise him on the offensive side of the ball. I think Mangini was a shot in the dark and was available and possibly why he was brought in to help the offense. JH needs some more advice/consultation to help him out on offense. He needs a offensive coaching vet to help him out. It's clear it's not Roman if every play needs to be polled then approved.

So to the OP who has the question .... Greg Roman is he really good?

I'd say not enough for even JH in terms of what/where he would like to take the team. I thought all along that Mangini was a possible replacement/indictment of Fangio if Fangio should leave. It's not - it's an indictment of the offensive coaching staff. Wow. Never looked at it like that. This is where I think he needs to lean on Baalke to help him find some coaches out there who can advise. Even Mariucci had BW as a "consultant" LOL. I loved that title. BW - lol - a "consultant".
[ Edited by NinerGM on Feb 6, 2014 at 9:59 AM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by iLL49er:
on point and that again begs the question.............why is jim harbaugh (an offensive HC) walking on water while roman takes the beating?

JH is the head of the rattlesnake and should be held accountable. when we try to do this we get accused of wanting nolan back i hate roman and he deserves all the beatings one human being could possibly endure but yes,, JH should be held accountable
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Bill Walsh had a great group of coaches around him, including George Seifert, who turned a bunch of rookie DBs into a ferocious force as the backfield coach. Then he moved up to DC after Chuck Studley left. Sam Wyche was QB coach, Billy Matthews RBs, Mckittrick OL, Banaszek OL, Ray Rhodes DBs, Hecker DL, Milt Jackson STs, and Al Vermeil for conditioning. In the front office they had McVay and Razanno.

It could be argued that the 80's assistant coaches were the best group in the history of the NFL. Then there was Eddie D who drove Walsh very hard, but also gave him everything he needed to win. He may have been able to keep Walsh around if he had known how to temper his temper...there are just so many threats a guy can take!

In Comparison, Harbaugh's group is good but not great. His D coaches are very strong, from Fangio to Donatell, Tomsula and Leavitt, The offensive side of the ball is a bit less stellar. Roman, Drevno/Solari, Chryst, and Morton are all question marks for me. Not saying they are bad but I just don't see the same kind of development and smoothness as the defense has had. Change Goldson for Reid? No problem. Willis goes out? No problem. J Smith and A Smith injured? OK...big problem...but you get my point.

The offense appears to make key mistakes almost every game. False starts, missed blocks, route issues, injuries with no solid back ups (WR), TEs not used as much as their talent might suggest, Gore disappearing at times (and you know it's not his issue!). And when I say key mistakes I don't mean like every team--it's more than that. The mistakes are limiting their options--getting the plays in late, penalties on first down at the start of the game to put them in long yardage situations, running Gore into a stacked box almost every first down...all looks like a lack of precision and discipline to me. Also a lack of imagination in play calling.

Spot on!
  • dj43
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Another article up today about Roman and becoming an HC. IMO, he may need to get out from under Harbaugh before he gets an HC gig. It has become clear that the 49ers struggle in the red zone and in the passing game in general. Other teams see that. They are left to wonder if it is all Roman's fault or is Harbaugh the culprit. Since it is clear that Harbaugh is not going to let Roman do anything without his approval, teams don't know who the real Greg Roman is. Hence, when he interviews he has no clear resume that clearly points to him as a savior for a bad team. What other teams see is a very talented roster that can't score touchdowns. Why would they want to hire the OC from that?
[ Edited by dj43 on Feb 6, 2014 at 1:26 PM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Another article up today about Roman and becoming an HC. IMO, he may need to get out from under Harbaugh before he gets an HC gig. It has become clear that the 49ers struggle in the red zone and in the passing game in general. Other teams see that. They are left to wonder if it is all Roman's fault or is Harbaugh the culprit. Since it is clear that Harbaugh is not going to let Roman do anything without his approval, teams don't know who the real Greg Roman is. Hence, when he interviews he has no clear resume that clearly points to him as a savior for a bad team. What other teams see is a very talented roster that can't score touchdowns. Why would they want to hire the OC from that?

I would really like to know who is handling the lions share of the offense because I need someone to get mad at. I'm hoping it's Roman because if it's Harbaugh then we will always have aconservative, archaic offense no matter the OC. I'm actually worried about this. With the talent at O, it should be much better.
Originally posted by WeDidIt:
Originally posted by dj43:
Another article up today about Roman and becoming an HC. IMO, he may need to get out from under Harbaugh before he gets an HC gig. It has become clear that the 49ers struggle in the red zone and in the passing game in general. Other teams see that. They are left to wonder if it is all Roman's fault or is Harbaugh the culprit. Since it is clear that Harbaugh is not going to let Roman do anything without his approval, teams don't know who the real Greg Roman is. Hence, when he interviews he has no clear resume that clearly points to him as a savior for a bad team. What other teams see is a very talented roster that can't score touchdowns. Why would they want to hire the OC from that?

I would really like to know who is handling the lions share of the offense because I need someone to get mad at. I'm hoping it's Roman because if it's Harbaugh then we will always have aconservative, archaic offense no matter the OC. I'm actually worried about this. With the talent at O, it should be much better.

harbaugh is the HC and calls the play into kap..i think you have your goat right there
Originally posted by WeDidIt:
Originally posted by dj43:
Another article up today about Roman and becoming an HC. IMO, he may need to get out from under Harbaugh before he gets an HC gig. It has become clear that the 49ers struggle in the red zone and in the passing game in general. Other teams see that. They are left to wonder if it is all Roman's fault or is Harbaugh the culprit. Since it is clear that Harbaugh is not going to let Roman do anything without his approval, teams don't know who the real Greg Roman is. Hence, when he interviews he has no clear resume that clearly points to him as a savior for a bad team. What other teams see is a very talented roster that can't score touchdowns. Why would they want to hire the OC from that?

I would really like to know who is handling the lions share of the offense because I need someone to get mad at. I'm hoping it's Roman because if it's Harbaugh then we will always have aconservative, archaic offense no matter the OC. I'm actually worried about this. With the talent at O, it should be much better.

I'm worried too...I could never tease the primary responsibility out so I just referred to "it" as HaRoMan (but I'm also missing 3 or 4 others here as well). If I had to guess, I'd say Roman is an average-at-best OC and that he is also trying to execute an average offense based off Harbaugh's philosophy; much how Raye claimed he was only calling plays based off Singletary's mindset (true or not). So while it starts with a poor (or archaic) offensive philosophy in Harbaugh, it's not also realized with an inexperienced OC in Roman either.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by WeDidIt:
Originally posted by dj43:
Another article up today about Roman and becoming an HC. IMO, he may need to get out from under Harbaugh before he gets an HC gig. It has become clear that the 49ers struggle in the red zone and in the passing game in general. Other teams see that. They are left to wonder if it is all Roman's fault or is Harbaugh the culprit. Since it is clear that Harbaugh is not going to let Roman do anything without his approval, teams don't know who the real Greg Roman is. Hence, when he interviews he has no clear resume that clearly points to him as a savior for a bad team. What other teams see is a very talented roster that can't score touchdowns. Why would they want to hire the OC from that?

I would really like to know who is handling the lions share of the offense because I need someone to get mad at. I'm hoping it's Roman because if it's Harbaugh then we will always have aconservative, archaic offense no matter the OC. I'm actually worried about this. With the talent at O, it should be much better.

I'm worried too...I could never tease the primary responsibility out so I just referred to "it" as HaRoMan (but I'm also missing 3 or 4 others here as well). If I had to guess, I'd say Roman is an average-at-best OC and that he is also trying to execute an average offense based off Harbaugh's philosophy; much how Raye claimed he was only calling plays based off Singletary's mindset (true or not). So while it starts with a poor (or archaic) offensive philosophy in Harbaugh, it's not also realized with an inexperienced OC in Roman either.

its harbaugh. i'll give u 2 examples

they had andrew luck and they relatively speaking didn't throw that much w/ the best qb in college football on their team

then....last year under bruce arians he utilized luck and threw a lot....indy hires pep hamilton (harbaugh disciple) who comes in and tries to make it a run first offense and takes the ball away from Luck....then by about 3/4 of the way thru the year he finally realized (prob told by pagano) that this is luck's team and start running the offense through him

just some observations but its clear, harbaugh is the goat we want to rip here, not roman
Originally posted by iLL49er:
its harbaugh. i'll give u 2 examples

they had andrew luck and they relatively speaking didn't throw that much w/ the best qb in college football on their team

then....last year under bruce arians he utilized luck and threw a lot....indy hires pep hamilton (harbaugh disciple) who comes in and tries to make it a run first offense and takes the ball away from Luck....then by about 3/4 of the way thru the year he finally realized (prob told by pagano) that this is luck's team and start running the offense through him

just some observations but its clear, harbaugh is the goat we want to rip here, not roman

Then we have a big problem. What input does Roman have then?
i think all the coaches get together to create the game plan..roman picks the plays and relays them to harbaugh who then either sends that play into kap or changes it

regardless all nuance aside, harbaugh is the one in kap's ear telling him the play via the microphone and he is roman's boss and is an offensive guy..he can change the play calls if he sees fit

i blame harbaugh much more than roman
  • buck
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Originally posted by cciowa:
JH is the head of the rattlesnake and should be held accountable. when we try to do this we get accused of wanting nolan back i hate roman and he deserves all the beatings one human being could possibly endure but yes,, JH should be held accountable



I agree that Harbaugh and Roman should be held accountable, but ......
[ Edited by buck on Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by cciowa:
JH is the head of the rattlesnake and should be held accountable. when we try to do this we get accused of wanting nolan back i hate roman and he deserves all the beatings one human being could possibly endure but yes,, JH should be held accountable



I agree that Harbaugh and Roman should be held accountable, but ......
JH is the head coach,, thus he is the head of the rattlesnake, i hate roman, thus he should be beaten. i should stop saying the word thus
  • buck
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Originally posted by cciowa:
JH is the head coach,, thus he is the head of the rattlesnake, i hate roman, thus he should be beaten. i should stop saying the word thus


OK. I can not wait for the hyperbole next year.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by cciowa:
JH is the head coach,, thus he is the head of the rattlesnake, i hate roman, thus he should be beaten. i should stop saying the word thus


OK. I can not wait for the hyperbole next year.
nor can i wait for a new batch of romanexcuses next year. his bath water drinkers certainly will have lots of time to develop them over the off season. I am sorry but i tend to think head coaches should be held accountable for their coaches.
Inject new talent at receiver. That would over come any Roman conservatism, lack of knowledge on the passing game, and play calling the game like 3pts lead going into the 4th qtr is enough to win the game. I want 4 receivers buzzing around the field so Kaep don't have to think about s**t. He can actually sees that they are open.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Feb 7, 2014 at 10:47 AM ]