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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by susweel:
1. Harbaugh probably will have even more input with the 49ers offense, which could mean amping up the passing game.

I've heard that Harbaugh took over additional parts of the 49ers offense towards the end of this season, especially on pass calls.

One NFL source noted that if offensive coordinator Greg Roman had landed a head-coaching job, Harbaugh planned to take over almost all the play-calling responsibilities.

Roman ended up staying with the 49ers, but I think some of the 49ers' offensive struggles in 2013 have Harbaugh thinking about pushing the envelope a little more.

Practical point: The 49ers probably aren't going to beat Seattle strictly by running it; Kaepernick needs more options in the pass game and it sounds like Harbaugh is determined to open up the playbook to see what the QB can do.

That also means Baalke probably has to figure out how to re-sign Anquan Boldin and add a new slot receiver to re-energize that pass attack.


http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2014/02/04/49ers-points-of-emphasis-going-into-2014-xxx/


i hope so

It's the only way.

I think having too many people running the offense is probably one of the reasons why its not a smooth process. We need one legit OC running the show.
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
unfortunately he very much is, we've had the best team in the nfl the last 3yrs w/ no superbowls to show for it

i know people say look how harbaugh turned us around...well i'd give most of that credit to vic fangio

if harbaugh didn't have fangio and his staff of tomsula/donatell etc making us amazing on defense then he'd be getting run out of town by now because the offense hasn't taken the next step even though it has weapons like crabtree/davis/boldin out there

i don't blame roman, that's weak...jim harbaugh is an offensive head coach he doesn't even touch the defense so he's the main issue here as to why the best team in football has failed to win the superbowl now for the last 3yrs

This is nothing more than ill conceived revisionist history....The truth is that Harbaugh is conservatively one of the top 5 coaches in the NFL. Three straight NFC Championship Games, one of which they lost in OT and one they lost on basically the last play of the game.

As for Harbaugh's role with the offense, let's see...the 2011 team, he turned Alex Smith around from borderline starter to an efficient winning QB that went into the NFC Championship game with an injured Crabtree, Kyle Williams and Joe Hastings at WR and a worn down Gore from all the work he had to do in the regular season.'

The 2012 team, he changed QBs in the middle of the season, which allowed the 49ers offense to take off and carry the 49ers through the playoffs with the defense hurting and faltering through much of the playoffs...lets not forget that the offense put up 29 points in the SB, but the defense and special teams gave up 34...The slow starts were a valid criticism but at the end of the day, but lets not make it out like the 49ers' offense was solely to blame for the loss in the SB. There was plenty of blame to go around, including the defense and special teams.

The 2013 team...scored over 400 points and more points than the 2012 team despite not having Crabtree for more than half the season and not having him at full strength when he did play. The OL also had its first major injuries in the last couple of years. Kap, under Harbuagh, struggled through much of the season but played his best football down the stretch and was the main reason offensively they won on the road in GB and Carolina and came within 1 play of beating Seattle in Seattle.

The 49ers had a talented roster when Harbaugh arrived but most of that talent was on defense. It was the offense, especially the QB position, that was the biggest problem for the 49ers and Harbaugh fixed that immediately in the short term with Smith and in the long term with Kap. You're taking Harbaugh for granted, which is beyond silly when he's 36-11-1 in the regular season, 5-3 in the playoffs (including 3 road playoff wins). The Patriots have been to the last 3 straight AFC Championship Games as well, lost 2 and lost 1 SB, guess their coach isn't any good either.

As for Carroll, the Seahawks won the SB so he gets the credit but lets not forget, Seattle very easily could have and probably should have lost to the Texans, Rams and/or Tampa and they were still just 1 game better than the 49ers during the regular season and 1 play better in the NFC Championship Game...For that matter, but for the controversial call in the 49ers-Saints game, the 49ers could have played Seattle in SF and the outcome probably would have been different.

Bottom line...Harbaugh and Kap are the two most important pieces to the 49ers. End of story.

never said otherwise, i'm not calling for him to be fired or anything ridiculous

but the honeymoon is over.....

there are a lot of posts i read on this forum that say "well don't u remember how it was b4 jim got here, lets be thankful for him"

that should be wearing thin by now........we expect superbowls

Jim's very lucky he's not coaching for Eddie D...Eddie was so tough on bill walsh for any screw ups it was unbelievable...Jim would've probably been fired by Eddie D by now....

luckily Jed isn't as fiery as his uncle but lets stop kissing the ground harbaugh walks on its time he faces some hard criticism
Originally posted by susweel:
I think having too many people running the offense is probably one of the reasons why its not a smooth process. We need one legit OC running the show.

isn't that what jim harbaugh is suppossed to be? i am tired of everyone blaming roman and not criticizing harbaugh in any of this...he's the head coach and an offensive one at that...he even relays the plays into Kap yet we rip roman and excuse harbaugh from that criticism
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
unfortunately he very much is, we've had the best team in the nfl the last 3yrs w/ no superbowls to show for it

i know people say look how harbaugh turned us around...well i'd give most of that credit to vic fangio

if harbaugh didn't have fangio and his staff of tomsula/donatell etc making us amazing on defense then he'd be getting run out of town by now because the offense hasn't taken the next step even though it has weapons like crabtree/davis/boldin out there

i don't blame roman, that's weak...jim harbaugh is an offensive head coach he doesn't even touch the defense so he's the main issue here as to why the best team in football has failed to win the superbowl now for the last 3yrs

This is nothing more than ill conceived revisionist history....The truth is that Harbaugh is conservatively one of the top 5 coaches in the NFL. Three straight NFC Championship Games, one of which they lost in OT and one they lost on basically the last play of the game.

As for Harbaugh's role with the offense, let's see...the 2011 team, he turned Alex Smith around from borderline starter to an efficient winning QB that went into the NFC Championship game with an injured Crabtree, Kyle Williams and Joe Hastings at WR and a worn down Gore from all the work he had to do in the regular season.'

The 2012 team, he changed QBs in the middle of the season, which allowed the 49ers offense to take off and carry the 49ers through the playoffs with the defense hurting and faltering through much of the playoffs...lets not forget that the offense put up 29 points in the SB, but the defense and special teams gave up 34...The slow starts were a valid criticism but at the end of the day, but lets not make it out like the 49ers' offense was solely to blame for the loss in the SB. There was plenty of blame to go around, including the defense and special teams.

The 2013 team...scored over 400 points and more points than the 2012 team despite not having Crabtree for more than half the season and not having him at full strength when he did play. The OL also had its first major injuries in the last couple of years. Kap, under Harbuagh, struggled through much of the season but played his best football down the stretch and was the main reason offensively they won on the road in GB and Carolina and came within 1 play of beating Seattle in Seattle.

The 49ers had a talented roster when Harbaugh arrived but most of that talent was on defense. It was the offense, especially the QB position, that was the biggest problem for the 49ers and Harbaugh fixed that immediately in the short term with Smith and in the long term with Kap. You're taking Harbaugh for granted, which is beyond silly when he's 36-11-1 in the regular season, 5-3 in the playoffs (including 3 road playoff wins). The Patriots have been to the last 3 straight AFC Championship Games as well, lost 2 and lost 1 SB, guess their coach isn't any good either.

As for Carroll, the Seahawks won the SB so he gets the credit but lets not forget, Seattle very easily could have and probably should have lost to the Texans, Rams and/or Tampa and they were still just 1 game better than the 49ers during the regular season and 1 play better in the NFC Championship Game...For that matter, but for the controversial call in the 49ers-Saints game, the 49ers could have played Seattle in SF and the outcome probably would have been different.

Bottom line...Harbaugh and Kap are the two most important pieces to the 49ers. End of story.

never said otherwise, i'm not calling for him to be fired or anything ridiculous

but the honeymoon is over.....

there are a lot of posts i read on this forum that say "well don't u remember how it was b4 jim got here, lets be thankful for him"

that should be wearing thin by now........we expect superbowls

Jim's very lucky he's not coaching for Eddie D...Eddie was so tough on bill walsh for any screw ups it was unbelievable...Jim would've probably been fired by Eddie D by now....

luckily Jed isn't as fiery as his uncle but lets stop kissing the ground harbaugh walks on its time he faces some hard criticism

Oh how they forget and that was AFTER Bill had won a SB!!!
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by susweel:
I think having too many people running the offense is probably one of the reasons why its not a smooth process. We need one legit OC running the show.

isn't that what jim harbaugh is suppossed to be? i am tired of everyone blaming roman and not criticizing harbaugh in any of this...he's the head coach and an offensive one at that...he even relays the plays into Kap yet we rip roman and excuse harbaugh from that criticism

I can't criticize harbs all he did is brought winning back to this franchise.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by susweel:
I think having too many people running the offense is probably one of the reasons why its not a smooth process. We need one legit OC running the show.

isn't that what jim harbaugh is suppossed to be? i am tired of everyone blaming roman and not criticizing harbaugh in any of this...he's the head coach and an offensive one at that...he even relays the plays into Kap yet we rip roman and excuse harbaugh from that criticism

I can't criticize harbs all he did is brought winning back to this franchise.

he brought fangio w/ him which is the main reason why he's been so successful...w/o lord fangio making our defense elite this team isn't the same.

and yes we can and should demand and criticize harbaugh a lot more for the failings on the offensive side

just look at our rankings on offense compared to the talent we have.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by susweel:
I think having too many people running the offense is probably one of the reasons why its not a smooth process. We need one legit OC running the show.

isn't that what jim harbaugh is suppossed to be? i am tired of everyone blaming roman and not criticizing harbaugh in any of this...he's the head coach and an offensive one at that...he even relays the plays into Kap yet we rip roman and excuse harbaugh from that criticism

I can't criticize harbs all he did is brought winning back to this franchise.

he brought fangio w/ him which is the main reason why he's been so successful...w/o lord fangio making our defense elite this team isn't the same.

and yes we can and should demand and criticize harbaugh a lot more for the failings on the offensive side

just look at our rankings on offense compared to the talent we have.
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by susweel:
I think having too many people running the offense is probably one of the reasons why its not a smooth process. We need one legit OC running the show.

isn't that what jim harbaugh is suppossed to be? i am tired of everyone blaming roman and not criticizing harbaugh in any of this...he's the head coach and an offensive one at that...he even relays the plays into Kap yet we rip roman and excuse harbaugh from that criticism

I can't criticize harbs all he did is brought winning back to this franchise.

he brought fangio w/ him which is the main reason why he's been so successful...w/o lord fangio making our defense elite this team isn't the same.

and yes we can and should demand and criticize harbaugh a lot more for the failings on the offensive side

just look at our rankings on offense compared to the talent we have.

Well I have to give it JH - he's great at recruiting coaches. Jim Leavitt, Fangio, Donnatell, - all those folks are seriously legit and Donatell ran Green Bay's entire defense for s stint during their height. And was smart to keep Tomsula.

It's the offense I'm concerned about. Drevno is leaving and that leaves us with Solari who I think is OK. I know Solari is well respected and was a McKittrick disciple but he's been here since the Jimmy Raye days and I just don't think we're that much better at pass-blocking. I prefer zone schemes and he's more a man specialist. I guess better for the running game. I thought the addition of Drevno was critical. Geep Chryst - meh. I don't even know WHO the WR coach is and I know he's done an abysmal job. Roman and Mangini. The offensive staff is pretty weaksauce if you asked me.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
unfortunately he very much is, we've had the best team in the nfl the last 3yrs w/ no superbowls to show for it

i know people say look how harbaugh turned us around...well i'd give most of that credit to vic fangio

if harbaugh didn't have fangio and his staff of tomsula/donatell etc making us amazing on defense then he'd be getting run out of town by now because the offense hasn't taken the next step even though it has weapons like crabtree/davis/boldin out there

i don't blame roman, that's weak...jim harbaugh is an offensive head coach he doesn't even touch the defense so he's the main issue here as to why the best team in football has failed to win the superbowl now for the last 3yrs

This is nothing more than ill conceived revisionist history....The truth is that Harbaugh is conservatively one of the top 5 coaches in the NFL. Three straight NFC Championship Games, one of which they lost in OT and one they lost on basically the last play of the game.

As for Harbaugh's role with the offense, let's see...the 2011 team, he turned Alex Smith around from borderline starter to an efficient winning QB that went into the NFC Championship game with an injured Crabtree, Kyle Williams and Joe Hastings at WR and a worn down Gore from all the work he had to do in the regular season.'

The 2012 team, he changed QBs in the middle of the season, which allowed the 49ers offense to take off and carry the 49ers through the playoffs with the defense hurting and faltering through much of the playoffs...lets not forget that the offense put up 29 points in the SB, but the defense and special teams gave up 34...The slow starts were a valid criticism but at the end of the day, but lets not make it out like the 49ers' offense was solely to blame for the loss in the SB. There was plenty of blame to go around, including the defense and special teams.

The 2013 team...scored over 400 points and more points than the 2012 team despite not having Crabtree for more than half the season and not having him at full strength when he did play. The OL also had its first major injuries in the last couple of years. Kap, under Harbuagh, struggled through much of the season but played his best football down the stretch and was the main reason offensively they won on the road in GB and Carolina and came within 1 play of beating Seattle in Seattle.

The 49ers had a talented roster when Harbaugh arrived but most of that talent was on defense. It was the offense, especially the QB position, that was the biggest problem for the 49ers and Harbaugh fixed that immediately in the short term with Smith and in the long term with Kap. You're taking Harbaugh for granted, which is beyond silly when he's 36-11-1 in the regular season, 5-3 in the playoffs (including 3 road playoff wins). The Patriots have been to the last 3 straight AFC Championship Games as well, lost 2 and lost 1 SB, guess their coach isn't any good either.

As for Carroll, the Seahawks won the SB so he gets the credit but lets not forget, Seattle very easily could have and probably should have lost to the Texans, Rams and/or Tampa and they were still just 1 game better than the 49ers during the regular season and 1 play better in the NFC Championship Game...For that matter, but for the controversial call in the 49ers-Saints game, the 49ers could have played Seattle in SF and the outcome probably would have been different.

Bottom line...Harbaugh and Kap are the two most important pieces to the 49ers. End of story.

never said otherwise, i'm not calling for him to be fired or anything ridiculous

but the honeymoon is over.....

there are a lot of posts i read on this forum that say "well don't u remember how it was b4 jim got here, lets be thankful for him"

that should be wearing thin by now........we expect superbowls

Jim's very lucky he's not coaching for Eddie D...Eddie was so tough on bill walsh for any screw ups it was unbelievable...Jim would've probably been fired by Eddie D by now....

luckily Jed isn't as fiery as his uncle but lets stop kissing the ground harbaugh walks on its time he faces some hard criticism

Oh how they forget and that was AFTER Bill had won a SB!!!

Bill Walsh had a great group of coaches around him, including George Seifert, who turned a bunch of rookie DBs into a ferocious force as the backfield coach. Then he moved up to DC after Chuck Studley left. Sam Wyche was QB coach, Billy Matthews RBs, Mckittrick OL, Banaszek OL, Ray Rhodes DBs, Hecker DL, Milt Jackson STs, and Al Vermeil for conditioning. In the front office they had McVay and Razanno.

It could be argued that the 80's assistant coaches were the best group in the history of the NFL. Then there was Eddie D who drove Walsh very hard, but also gave him everything he needed to win. He may have been able to keep Walsh around if he had known how to temper his temper...there are just so many threats a guy can take!

In Comparison, Harbaugh's group is good but not great. His D coaches are very strong, from Fangio to Donatell, Tomsula and Leavitt, The offensive side of the ball is a bit less stellar. Roman, Drevno/Solari, Chryst, and Morton are all question marks for me. Not saying they are bad but I just don't see the same kind of development and smoothness as the defense has had. Change Goldson for Reid? No problem. Willis goes out? No problem. J Smith and A Smith injured? OK...big problem...but you get my point.

The offense appears to make key mistakes almost every game. False starts, missed blocks, route issues, injuries with no solid back ups (WR), TEs not used as much as their talent might suggest, Gore disappearing at times (and you know it's not his issue!). And when I say key mistakes I don't mean like every team--it's more than that. The mistakes are limiting their options--getting the plays in late, penalties on first down at the start of the game to put them in long yardage situations, running Gore into a stacked box almost every first down...all looks like a lack of precision and discipline to me. Also a lack of imagination in play calling.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Bill Walsh had a great group of coaches around him, including George Seifert, who turned a bunch of rookie DBs into a ferocious force as the backfield coach. Then he moved up to DC after Chuck Studley left. Sam Wyche was QB coach, Billy Matthews RBs, Mckittrick OL, Banaszek OL, Ray Rhodes DBs, Hecker DL, Milt Jackson STs, and Al Vermeil for conditioning. In the front office they had McVay and Razanno.

It could be argued that the 80's assistant coaches were the best group in the history of the NFL. Then there was Eddie D who drove Walsh very hard, but also gave him everything he needed to win. He may have been able to keep Walsh around if he had known how to temper his temper...there are just so many threats a guy can take!

In Comparison, Harbaugh's group is good but not great. His D coaches are very strong, from Fangio to Donatell, Tomsula and Leavitt, The offensive side of the ball is a bit less stellar. Roman, Drevno/Solari, Chryst, and Morton are all question marks for me. Not saying they are bad but I just don't see the same kind of development and smoothness as the defense has had. Change Goldson for Reid? No problem. Willis goes out? No problem. J Smith and A Smith injured? OK...big problem...but you get my point.

The offense appears to make key mistakes almost every game. False starts, missed blocks, route issues, injuries with no solid back ups (WR), TEs not used as much as their talent might suggest, Gore disappearing at times (and you know it's not his issue!). And when I say key mistakes I don't mean like every team--it's more than that. The mistakes are limiting their options--getting the plays in late, penalties on first down at the start of the game to put them in long yardage situations, running Gore into a stacked box almost every first down...all looks like a lack of precision and discipline to me. Also a lack of imagination in play calling.

on point and that again begs the question.............why is jim harbaugh (an offensive HC) walking on water while roman takes the beating?
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Bill Walsh had a great group of coaches around him, including George Seifert, who turned a bunch of rookie DBs into a ferocious force as the backfield coach. Then he moved up to DC after Chuck Studley left. Sam Wyche was QB coach, Billy Matthews RBs, Mckittrick OL, Banaszek OL, Ray Rhodes DBs, Hecker DL, Milt Jackson STs, and Al Vermeil for conditioning. In the front office they had McVay and Razanno.

It could be argued that the 80's assistant coaches were the best group in the history of the NFL. Then there was Eddie D who drove Walsh very hard, but also gave him everything he needed to win. He may have been able to keep Walsh around if he had known how to temper his temper...there are just so many threats a guy can take!

In Comparison, Harbaugh's group is good but not great. His D coaches are very strong, from Fangio to Donatell, Tomsula and Leavitt, The offensive side of the ball is a bit less stellar. Roman, Drevno/Solari, Chryst, and Morton are all question marks for me. Not saying they are bad but I just don't see the same kind of development and smoothness as the defense has had. Change Goldson for Reid? No problem. Willis goes out? No problem. J Smith and A Smith injured? OK...big problem...but you get my point.

The offense appears to make key mistakes almost every game. False starts, missed blocks, route issues, injuries with no solid back ups (WR), TEs not used as much as their talent might suggest, Gore disappearing at times (and you know it's not his issue!). And when I say key mistakes I don't mean like every team--it's more than that. The mistakes are limiting their options--getting the plays in late, penalties on first down at the start of the game to put them in long yardage situations, running Gore into a stacked box almost every first down...all looks like a lack of precision and discipline to me. Also a lack of imagination in play calling.

on point and that again begs the question.............why is jim harbaugh (an offensive HC) walking on water while roman takes the beating?

Because we sucked under Nolan and Singleterry?
[ Edited by NinerGM on Feb 6, 2014 at 7:26 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Because we sucked under Nolan and Singleterry?

lol yea, that seems to be the tag line
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Well I have to give it JH - he's great at recruiting coaches. Jim Leavitt, Fangio, Donnatell, - all those folks are seriously legit and Donatell ran Green Bay's entire defense for s stint during their height. And was smart to keep Tomsula.

It's the offense I'm concerned about. Drevno is leaving and that leaves us with Solari who I think is OK. I know Solari is well respected and was a McKittrick disciple but he's been here since the Jimmy Raye days and I just don't think we're that much better at pass-blocking. I prefer zone schemes and he's more a man specialist. I guess better for the running game. I thought the addition of Drevno was critical. Geep Chryst - meh. I don't even know WHO the WR coach is and I know he's done an abysmal job. Roman and Mangini. The offensive staff is pretty weaksauce if you asked me.


Notice how all those guys are on the defensive side of the ball? His defensive coaching staff is excellent, as far as the offensive coaching staff, I'm not especially sold on any of them. I haven't seen any stellar improvement or even slight improvement at OL, WR, RB, even TE, nothing to write home about at least.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by iLL49er:

on point and that again begs the question.............why is jim harbaugh (an offensive HC) walking on water while roman takes the beating?

Because we sucked under Nolan and Singleterry?

Well said! LOL! After the Nolan/Singletary years this fan base was ready to salute any sign of success! But Baalke/Harbaugh has put together a very good bunch of players and turned the corner to respectability. Now they need to bring the offense up to par. The fact that this is the first year in ten (14?) that they could put two very good WRs on the field at the same time is very significant.
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Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by susweel:
I think having too many people running the offense is probably one of the reasons why its not a smooth process. We need one legit OC running the show.

isn't that what jim harbaugh is suppossed to be? i am tired of everyone blaming roman and not criticizing harbaugh in any of this...he's the head coach and an offensive one at that...he even relays the plays into Kap yet we rip roman and excuse harbaugh from that criticism

I can't criticize harbs all he did is brought winning back to this franchise.
but he shares the blame when roman goes into the nutty professor role. Jh should step in and not let him go,,, face it , when roman goes down retard road JH is an enabler because he just lets him go