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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by jbeale49:
Yep, mmm hmm...This. Seattle puts their players in places for them to excel. Think about how Chancelor would look in our defensive backfield? Terrible! He would be 15 yards from the LOS trying to flip his hips and not trip over himself. Instead, they make him a star by playing to his strengths and putting him closer to the LOS. So many examples of how they do this and we don't...

defense was not the problem in case you missed it whitner resumed playing good and the rookie was a pro bowler.
you're way off base here.

and also seattle runs a simplistic offense.
they run a slant route or a go route and they run scramble drills. that's the entire offense right there.
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by jbeale49:
Yep, mmm hmm...This. Seattle puts their players in places for them to excel. Think about how Chancelor would look in our defensive backfield? Terrible! He would be 15 yards from the LOS trying to flip his hips and not trip over himself. Instead, they make him a star by playing to his strengths and putting him closer to the LOS. So many examples of how they do this and we don't...

defense was not the problem in case you missed it whitner resumed playing good and the rookie was a pro bowler.
you're way off base here.

and also seattle runs a simplistic offense.
they run a slant route or a go route and they run scramble drills. that's the entire offense right there.

Yea, I get it...we run a typical FS/SS set. The same set Reid/Whitner played their whole lives. Seattle couldn't put Chancellor back there...too big, slow, awkward. They found a way to use his skill set. Something we don't do with other positions...LMJ, Hunter, QP, Vance etc. Boobie was returning kicks for a while, not exactly his long suit. Seattle is good at putting players in a position to succeed given their skill sets.
After seeing how the hawks mix plays up and kept Denver guessing I wish we had that type of play calling on offense. What really is the issue with our coaching on offense that they don't do anything ?
Originally posted by jbeale49:
Yep, mmm hmm...This. Seattle puts their players in places for them to excel. Think about how Chancelor would look in our defensive backfield? Terrible! He would be 15 yards from the LOS trying to flip his hips and not trip over himself. Instead, they make him a star by playing to his strengths and putting him closer to the LOS. So many examples of how they do this and we don't...

They have the best corner and free safety in football with Sherman&Thomas. Don't you think that might have something to do with it?
Just joined your forum after being on the ESPN Forum for Years. Roman is deceptively good at running the ball from power formations. He of all people should have called runs on four consecutive downs to win last year's Super Bowl. Can he cut it up with the pass in a sophisticated manner and keep a good defensive team off balance? The answer is no. Is he good in the Red Zone? No. He produced a Pro Bowl Kicker in Akers for crying out loud. The 49er passing offense could hardly be described as modern!!! Is this coming from Jim Harbaugh? A little too much Mike Ditka mentality in there? Perhaps. It's Roman's Mad Scientist play calling that keeps him from getting a Head Coaching Job anywhere and this is unfortunate because he is holding us back. We lack balance and as long as he is here, this won't change. Harbaugh might really need to take over the play calling on important downs because our conservative, predictable passing game is getting to be ridiculous and a bore to look at.
Originally posted by FTBLCRZY:
Just joined your forum after being on the ESPN Forum for Years. Roman is deceptively good at running the ball from power formations. He of all people should have called runs on four consecutive downs to win last year's Super Bowl. Can he cut it up with the pass in a sophisticated manner and keep a good defensive team off balance? The answer is no. Is he good in the Red Zone? No. He produced a Pro Bowl Kicker in Akers for crying out loud. The 49er passing offense could hardly be described as modern!!! Is this coming from Jim Harbaugh? A little too much Mike Ditka mentality in there? Perhaps. It's Roman's Mad Scientist play calling that keeps him from getting a Head Coaching Job anywhere and this is unfortunate because he is holding us back. We lack balance and as long as he is here, this won't change. Harbaugh might really need to take over the play calling on important downs because our conservative, predictable passing game is getting to be ridiculous and a bore to look at.

Unfortunately, this IS Harbaugh's offense. Roman is just calling the plays. I doubt Harbaugh would call things significantly different than Roman would (which is scary IMO). I'm hoping that they'd be willing to open up the passing game as Kap continues to progress and we get more weapons around him but my gut is telling me if they had the ability or desire to incorporate a competent, modern passing attack, we would have seen some signs of that by now.
[ Edited by NeonNiner on Feb 3, 2014 at 12:18 AM ]
Originally posted by 49erfaninAZ:
After seeing how the hawks mix plays up and kept Denver guessing I wish we had that type of play calling on offense. What really is the issue with our coaching on offense that they don't do anything ?

I don't see that with Sea. They have a QB that runs around until somebody breaks free. And they have Lynch who can do a lot. If Gore was in his prime we would be a lot more dangerous on the ground. The unscripted back yard football is something you don't want to have to rely on. The running game is a problem for us now. Gore is at the end, Hunter was meh (his knee IMO), LMJ doesn't do s**t, Dix is slow. We have a lot riding on Lat next year.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by 49erfaninAZ:
After seeing how the hawks mix plays up and kept Denver guessing I wish we had that type of play calling on offense. What really is the issue with our coaching on offense that they don't do anything ?

I don't see that with Sea. They have a QB that runs around until somebody breaks free. And they have Lynch who can do a lot. If Gore was in his prime we would be a lot more dangerous on the ground. The unscripted back yard football is something you don't want to have to rely on. The running game is a problem for us now. Gore is at the end, Hunter was meh (his knee IMO), LMJ doesn't do s**t, Dix is slow. We have a lot riding on Lat next year.

Yes... this assessment is true in THIS offensive scheme using a power-running offense. If this is the ONLY offense regulations would allow, I'd say it's time to look for another running back - but it isn't. 49ers need to start running plays that key on their player's strengths. The 49ers claim they draft PBA. That can't work if you've already decided, and are entrenched in a particular style of football. LMJ and Hunter can't "do s**t" if they're constantly being asked to do things or in an offense that limits their opportunities because it doesn't fit their skillset. I don't think we know what those players can do (outside of Dixion) because they simply haven't had enough chances with schemes could possible work for them. The offense relies on Gore and until we have a replacement with his EXACT same skill set, I don't expect anything different anytime soon. And to my understanding Lattimore isn't the same type of runner Gore is. Again BPA isn't going to work with the way we run offense.
Originally posted by Hopper:
They have the best corner and free safety in football with Sherman&Thomas. Don't you think that might have something to do with it?

It does have something to do with it. Frees 31 to make play near the line of scrimmage or at linebacker depth. He's not this good somewhere else. Scheme and coaching make him a star. That's why he was passed over in the draft, most teams would use 31 in a traditional way and they'd be smoked.
Roman deserves his criticism. Harbaugh has often said that he defers a lot of the responsibility to his coordinators... with that said from the outside it really is a bit of a mystery as to who has more influence on the offense, Harbaugh or Roman.

They've been 11th in scoring all three years under these guys and they've gone from 26th to 11th to 24th in yards. Considering from 2004-2010 the offense was mostly ranked near the bottom in the mid-20s... being 11th was a huge improvement and its been good enough the last 3 years.

The honeymoon is over now, no more excuses with Smith as QB or an inexperienced Kap. I expect to see the 49ers creep up and become one of the top 10 offenses next year without any major injuries. Unless Kap just explodes I don't expect anything near the #1, but there is no reason they shouldn't be somewhere around 5-8.
Gore is a work horse type of RB who can break an occasional long run, but won't consistently do so. Lynch is almost impossible to tackle one on one. He is one of the strongest RBs I've ever watched. The only RB I can recall who looked so strong is Jim Brown. Riggins was tough but didn't have the speed. The niners are usually a great tackling defense and they had some trouble with Lynch at times.

I'd like to know, if any of you are aware, why so many defensive players try to tackle Lynch high? Haven't they watched tape on the guy? You don't grab a guy like him by the shoulder pads and expect to have any success.

If there is a deity in the heavens above, the 9ers used the run so much because teams generally jell better in that aspect of t he offense and the pass game will catch up next year! Wishful thinking? OK...why not?
Originally posted by threelittlebirds:
Roman deserves his criticism. Harbaugh has often said that he defers a lot of the responsibility to his coordinators... with that said from the outside it really is a bit of a mystery as to who has more influence on the offense, Harbaugh or Roman.

They've been 11th in scoring all three years under these guys and they've gone from 26th to 11th to 24th in yards. Considering from 2004-2010 the offense was mostly ranked near the bottom in the mid-20s... being 11th was a huge improvement and its been good enough the last 3 years.

The honeymoon is over now, no more excuses with Smith as QB or an inexperienced Kap. I expect to see the 49ers creep up and become one of the top 10 offenses next year without any major injuries. Unless Kap just explodes I don't expect anything near the #1, but there is no reason they shouldn't be somewhere around 5-8.


[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Feb 3, 2014 at 7:14 PM ]
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by threelittlebirds:
Roman deserves his criticism. Harbaugh has often said that he defers a lot of the responsibility to his coordinators... with that said from the outside it really is a bit of a mystery as to who has more influence on the offense, Harbaugh or Roman.

They've been 11th in scoring all three years under these guys and they've gone from 26th to 11th to 24th in yards. Considering from 2004-2010 the offense was mostly ranked near the bottom in the mid-20s... being 11th was a huge improvement and its been good enough the last 3 years.

The honeymoon is over now, no more excuses with Smith as QB or an inexperienced Kap. I expect to see the 49ers creep up and become one of the top 10 offenses next year without any major injuries. Unless Kap just explodes I don't expect anything near the #1, but there is no reason they shouldn't be somewhere around 5-8.



I'm going to guess you're trolling and saying it is impossible for the 11th ranked offense each of the last 3 years to creep into the top 10? Hmmm... ok. Haters are always going to hate... but it isn't like I said the 30th ranked offense of the last 3 years needs to now creep into the top 10.
this thread really isn't that deep guys.

roman needs to use every player and the entire playbook
and keep the foot on the gas until the other team has no shot of coming back.

that mindset we win every game.
What are you talking about? We are 11th in total offense? I guess in the Martian Football League we are 11th..

In the NFL, we are 24th in total net yards, 30th in net passing yards, 25th in first downs, 18th in made third down %, 25th in completion percentage.

By "hater" you mean "sober realist".

We have to work very hard to make sure the focus stays on development for Kap and accountability for the coaching staff, who are winning not through offensive success but by enabling a low turnover strategy and relying on our defense.