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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Roman may not have been the issue after all.
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Thank you. The difference is that Luck was competent enough to make basic sound decisions. My point is that they (Roman, Harbaugh) philosophy is to establish balance and not become one dimensional. If we go over the film, we can all clearly see that the problem is not that players are not getting open, the problem is that the quarterback cannot make the throws. So how can the issue be about simplistic play calling at this point?

show me where receivers are wide open
show me don't just say stuff. show me.. and you won't be able to.

has roman progressed as a coordinator?

or are the same problems through 2 qb's still persisting.

answer that one
too many times he tried to run on first down and the hawks were ready for it. Wasn't impressed with his gameplan.
  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,639
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Originally posted by LVJay:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Try to understand that a QB with inabilities forces a coordinator to have an inability to scheme fully. So you may see him call lame duck plays, but try to take the personnel into consideration.

Kap's not one of the greatest (has potential to be) and isn't very good (YET) at reading good defenses / schemes.

Roman is not a great offensive coordinator (PERIOD)!!

Originally posted by SofaKing:
I honestly don't have any gripes with the way Roman called the game. The players lost this one.

Agreed....

Well please explain to me what was he supposed to do with a QB with such handicaps?

Look at the first down plays from the previous page and ask yourself...why does this team insist on calling Gore into a stacked D over and over again?

That's an issue with Roman and play calling I agree. But ask yourself if the Seahawks would call such defenses if Kaepernick had given them a reason to think that he can dissect their defense? It was safer to go with Gore than to put the game in the hands of our piece of QB, regardless to Seattle daring us to do so.

That's not the only issue. If you can't/won't come up with other reasons as to why he isn't all that great then, you definitely are a Roman apologist and therefore, this (your opinion/my opinion) conversation will go nowhere.

Maybe you haven't seen my other posts (ranting on Kaps mishaps/inabilities), but I will call it how it's seems / looks (just my opinion) on any player or coach of my favorite team. I don't think Kap is worth the big contract coming to him (not at the moment), but maybe he'll prove some of us wrong. He isn't great (yet)....

Both are at fault for different reasons...
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I watch quite a bit of Stanford football, and even they appear to bog themselves down with simplistic/stubborn playcalling at times.

It really could be as simple as the defenses are so much better in the NFL. Luck is certainly a good decision maker, where he is far ahead of Kaepernick, but Kaepernick was completing short passes in the second half at will...he had no difficulty until he got greedy and went for the home-run to Crabtree...the interception. Stanford could power their way over teams...as they did in the Orange Bowl with Luck. However, they ran into trouble when the team came up against teams with great front sevens.

I'm still not able to assess who/where the blame should go. Roman's offense is not my kind of tea, so it is easy for me to blame him. But Kaepernick has not been the cool, collected QB I had hoped he would be. There were a couple of shots of his face at the line of scrimmage that looked less than confident. And he played like it.

Taking Kaepernick's miscues one at a time:

1) First fumble--trying to do too much, but at least trying to keep his eyes downfield. Did not hear the player coming due to noise. If he kept the ball more secure it could have been avoided but he tends to hold it out from his body when he runs. Didn't think it was too bad...and Goodwin bailed him out.
2) Second fumble--same as above, but when you've been burned once in a game shouldn't that remind you of ball security? Trying to be too perfect and should have run. I give him a pass
3) First interception--terrible, terrible decision! Just horrible! But...he tends to throw a flat, fast ball when he is keyed up and with a bit of loft it would have been a first down...as it was later.
4) Second interception--some are suggesting Kaepernick and Crabtree had their egos in the way, but according to Harbaugh it was the call from him. I'm sick of seeing Kaepernick ignore everyone except Crabtree when the game's on the line. Too harsh? Probably, but he had VD, Boldin, Patton...and they were all more open than Crabtree. If it was a designed play it certainly didn't fool Seattle...at all! So...Harbaugh has a decision on his hands...if he made that call he needs to rethink the one receiver concept. If Kaepernick locked on then Harbaugh has to wonder..."Can I teach this guy how to play NFL caliber QB?"
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jan 20, 2014 at 11:59 AM ]
I hope that Roman gets the Browns job.

BUT the buck stops w/JH.

Those who cannot remember their past are condemned to repeat it.

We need WR who are fast and can get separation. We need a BIG Red Zone target

AND we need play calling tnhat will use that type of talent.
So what's the consenus now? I asked a little while back if fans thought we could win with this type of offensive philosophy/play calling.
Originally posted by NCommand:
So what's the consenus now? I asked a little while back if fans thought we could win with this type of offensive philosophy/play calling.

Everything but the big ones!

Edit...sorry...just still a bit irritated by this unnecessary loss!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jan 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
SF First Down Plays By Quarter

Q1

Gore 2 yards off left tackle

Gore 1 yard off left tackle

Kaepernick 17 yards right end

Gore -1 yard up middle

Q2

Kaepenick incomplete pass

Gore no gain off right guard

Kaepernick 58 yards off right tackle

Gore 2 yards off right guard

Kaepernick incomplete pass

Kaepernick kneel down

Q3

Gore -1 yard off left tackle

Kaepernick incomplete pass

Gore 9 yards right end

Kaepernick 22 yards pass Crabtree

Kaepernick 22 yards left end

Kaepernick -8 sack-fumble

Gore no gain left tackle

Q4

Kaepernick incomplete pass

Hunter 3 yards left end

Hunter 11 yards right tackle

Kaepernick intercepted

James no gain right end

Kaepernick 4 yards left tackle

Kaepernick 11 yards pass VD middle

Kaepernick intercepted



The stubborn insistence to run on first down is sickening...and ineffective. Gore has 8 first down runs for 12 yards. The only runs that worked were off end or around end.

Apparently we think we're the SF Giants. Just take the first pitch every time. Now you've only got two more strikes.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Apparently we think we're the SF Giants. Just take the first pitch every time. Now you've only got two more strikes.

LOL! Yes, that sounds familiar. I thought after the first quarter the coaches would see what Seattle was doing an change...not just keep running into a brick wall!
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by 190836:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by 190836:
Can someone explain to me how Roman improved Kap's development from last year to this? I believe he regressed.

Roman isn't the qb coach
But he is OC. His offensive philosophy directly impacts qb's development. If the qb coach is not good enough then ask the HC for a different person.

The QB guru should be able to see a problem. And the philosophy has a 3 headed monster, Roman-Harbs-Chryst.

Okay jeff, I hear you .....

The buck stops with Harbaugh and I absolutely think he's responsible .... for everything. Why am I so hard on the coaches? Because Kap is making stupid statements like "I was going to got to Crabtree no matter what."

.... wait no matter what? Really?

IMHO, someone on the coaching staff whether that's Geep Chryst (who I don't particularly like), Roman or Harbaugh. You can't be stubborn in critical situations. However, I'm not surprised Kap is saying this tripe. This attitude is exemplified with our "vaunted" off-tackle running game. No matter how many men are in the box, no matter how many times we've run for losses, KEEP DOING IT ANYWAY. Don't adjust. Don't try something else and maybe come back to that....

The AR Offense is quintessentially this approach to football. Even if we may not run AR as often, the lessons of it being learned by this 1st (complete) year starter is obvious; throw it no matter what to the receiver who's supposed to get the ball. Egotistic. And maybe it was what Harbaugh needed to learn as a coach in the NFL; there are other coaches out there smarter than you with teams just as talented who can make as big as plays as yours.

I hear you. The buck stops with the HC and he should be called out just as much as Roman.

His offense, his teams loss, his QBs poor decision-making, his game planning that he oversees and approves that becomes non-functional once you counter the bread-and-butter plays.

Yes I am wondering Harbaugh ... what are you telling your QB? How are you coaching him? What are you telling Roman? What are you doing about player development on offense? Why so few opportunities?

Point taken.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Jan 20, 2014 at 12:36 PM ]
NinerGM--Good points as is Jreff's. Watching Harbaugh when Kaepernick came off the field after the final interception I imagined Walsh with Montana. I'm not sure Harbaugh can be tough enough to get CK's attention at times. He pats him on the back and says something like...next time. Walsh would be supportive but would not give the QB a pass on a bad play. Not sure I buy Harbaugh as a great QB Guru...after watching the guys he has worked with the only one who stands out as a Harbaugh creation is Josh Johnson, who excelled at the U of SD. The rest had talent to burn.

So, he might be a better judge of QBs than QB coach. He was a hard nosed, stubborn QB and that seems to be what he wants from his QBs. Perhaps too stubborn?
I'm not a fan of his plays,BUT

that last interception was a Kaepernick AUDIBLE.
He had Patton on the flat wide,VD looked open,there was even running room.

It happens.Sophmoric mistake by Kap,but not Rpmans' fault.
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
I'm not a fan of his plays,BUT

that last interception was a Kaepernick AUDIBLE.
He had Patton on the flat wide,VD looked open,there was even running room.

It happens.Sophmoric mistake by Kap,but not Rpmans' fault.

Probably true...his quote of taking Crabtree 1on1 every time...he did it 4 times in the Superbowl and this one as well on a similar route to the corner of the EZ. Perhaps it's time to watch some film and realizes what works and what doesn't? LOL.

As to HaRoMan, the first down call runs up the gut were constant 2 yard losses. Now we're in 2nd and long...again. First down production has been a nightmare for years for us. When we're good though (4 or more yards), it opens the playbook. Period. As to the constant one-receiver only options inside the RZ where CK is on a sprint right? Enough! The only time this play works is on an ad lib. In fact, one could make an argument, our best plays all year long have been on ad lib plays and that is a problem.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 20, 2014 at 12:45 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Probably true...his quote of taking Crabtree 1on1 every time...he did it 4 times in the Superbowl and this one as well on a similar route to the corner of the EZ. Perhaps it's time to watch some film and realizes what works and what doesn't? LOL.

Ouch! Agree completely! Time to see what is there...not what someone says is there...reminds me of almost every WR in history..."I'm open, I'm open..."