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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by NCommand:
He is an ideal slot WR if you have a TE like VD and two outside receivers like Boldin and Crabtree. He is super quick off the LOS, up to speed in 2 steps (ala Hunter) and has good RAC. But out wide at the X or Z? Hell no! KW needs to be clean to come off the LOS and find soft zones, clear out space, wheel routes, etc. Almost like how I thought we'd use McDonald. Clean release? This is also why we move Boldin (Ravens as well) inside to the slot in the RZ. Still, Manningham would be the more ideal slot WR if 100% healthy and back to form. I'm not confident we'll use McDonald, VD, Boldin, Williams or Manningham properly in the slot though at this juncture. That's a bummer b/c that is the easiest and quickest pass for CK to make and is the perfect outlet/hot read on a blitz. Obviously, I 100% agree with you on McDonald and his underutilization...the good news is that he's become an excellent blocker!

macdonald is criminally underused. criminally.

he has stepped up and done everything we asked him to do. he blocks excellent and he's a HUGE target who catches what you throw to him and runs over and through people after the catch...

we basically have Vern Davis ( top te imo) and we have Gronk (Macdonald) on our team and can't find a way to get him the ball, especially in the red zone.

HaRoMan should be arrested for illegal-use of McDonald! After all, he's the next Mike Ditka (was that Harbaugh's reference?). Anyhow, I laugh at this b/c for 6 straight weeks in my upcoming game thread posts, I've said the same thing and have finally given up...that the key to the game will be McDonald being that intermediate outlet for CK, finding those soft zones and then being a nightmare after he catches the ball. Then I remembered (6 weeks later) that we don't run a WCO. LOL!

roman is more then good when it comes down to to run game. when it comes to the passing game he and the rest of the staff come up short.

it's really not fare to judge them without knowing he inner workings so we DONT KNOW how well the youngsters are really progressing during practice which has a direct bearing on the plays they would allow them to participate in during game time. at the same time when the team has been forced to play some of the newer guys, for the most part they have performed well. its totally irrational thought but it seems as if the the younger players have to pass some sort of "right of passage " in order to get meaningful PT I know its BS but if they can help why not play them.

idk if you remember but somebody made the analogy, basically saying that calling a game is like being a boxer and all that it entails. tying punches together and putting ones self in a position to deliver your best shot (not just for the KO but for the flurries) half the time I feel as if our offense is recovering from a stroke, especially the passing attack. its like the brain has problems organizing the signals enough to orchestrate fluid movements (fluid scheme that makes the best use of what's available). granted we have one or two gimpy limbs out there right now but are coordinators recognizing how to best use all that's available..(THE STAFF KNOWS WAY MORE THAN ME).

from player packages to play design, sometimes I'm just sitting there wondering wth are they doing sometimes.
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Ok, lets assume that Roman is simply a college OC and not a professional OC. Who would you want to replace him?

Tom Rathman

Why do you think that Rathman would be any better? Are you basing your decision on the fact that he was with Walsh and the older niners?
Originally posted by Allx9er:
roman is more then good when it comes down to to run game. when it comes to the passing game he and the rest of the staff come up short.

it's really not fare to judge them without knowing he inner workings so we DONT KNOW how well the youngsters are really progressing during practice which has a direct bearing on the plays they would allow them to participate in during game time. at the same time when the team has been forced to play some of the newer guys, for the most part they have performed well. its totally irrational thought but it seems as if the the younger players have to pass some sort of "right of passage " in order to get meaningful PT I know its BS but if they can help why not play them.

idk if you remember but somebody made the analogy, basically saying that calling a game is like being a boxer and all that it entails. tying punches together and putting ones self in a position to deliver your best shot (not just for the KO but for the flurries) half the time I feel as if our offense is recovering from a stroke, especially the passing attack. its like the brain has problems organizing the signals enough to orchestrate fluid movements (fluid scheme that makes the best use of what's available). granted we have one or two gimpy limbs out there right now but are coordinators recognizing how to best use all that's available..(THE STAFF KNOWS WAY MORE THAN ME).

from player packages to play design, sometimes I'm just sitting there wondering wth are they doing sometimes.

greg doesn't know.

running yes, as long as its power run good keep that up. play action maybe off a power run? what happened to the bunch formations we ran in game 1 and not in any game since? do they not think that boldin would get open again for monster games like that or something?

and as long as this keeps happening "Williams finished the game with 40 snaps (57 percent), with Jon Baldwin the next wide receiver at 18 snaps (26 percent)"
then there's nothing anyone can say to me to convince me he has a beat on what he's doing passing wise.

there is nothing in practice and nothing on the field no tape no nothing that would justify this. nothing but it keeps happening.

because he is being stubborn. adapt.. change.. stop trying to be the genius just be a great coordinator and the accolades will come.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Ok, lets assume that Roman is simply a college OC and not a professional OC. Who would you want to replace him?

Tom Rathman

Geep Chryst will probably be the next OC

Chryst was the legend behind Alex Smith's legendary 4 minutes against N.O....

Something to think about.
and to top it all off we can't blame injuries solely on the performance. last i checked vic fangio has had to deal with even more than him but yet how is the defense and has it been playing?
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
There's more to being an ideal slot WR than just being small and quick. The best slot WR's in the NFL are superior route runners, Kyle Williams is still a fairly sloppy route runner. Big difference. I agree that he belongs in the slot, only because he absolutely DOES NOT belong on the outside, but I'd hardly call him ideal.

well his body of work is small but from the catches he has made he has shown to be a good slot option, the issue is, we dont run that many 3 WR sets. And before Kaep took over our offense didnt focus heavily on the passing game. People said the same thing about Welker in Miami, however Belichick found a way to bring out the best in him. Im not saying KW is Welker but we havent put him in the position to show what he can do from the slot either. Being "ideal" is simply that "ideal" it doesnt mean he is proven it means he is best suited for that body of work.
Originally posted by Allx9er:
roman is more then good when it comes down to to run game. when it comes to the passing game he and the rest of the staff come up short.

it's really not fare to judge them without knowing he inner workings so we DONT KNOW how well the youngsters are really progressing during practice which has a direct bearing on the plays they would allow them to participate in during game time. at the same time when the team has been forced to play some of the newer guys, for the most part they have performed well. its totally irrational thought but it seems as if the the younger players have to pass some sort of "right of passage " in order to get meaningful PT I know its BS but if they can help why not play them.

idk if you remember but somebody made the analogy, basically saying that calling a game is like being a boxer and all that it entails. tying punches together and putting ones self in a position to deliver your best shot (not just for the KO but for the flurries) half the time I feel as if our offense is recovering from a stroke, especially the passing attack. its like the brain has problems organizing the signals enough to orchestrate fluid movements (fluid scheme that makes the best use of what's available). granted we have one or two gimpy limbs out there right now but are coordinators recognizing how to best use all that's available..(THE STAFF KNOWS WAY MORE THAN ME).

from player packages to play design, sometimes I'm just sitting there wondering wth are they doing sometimes.

I agree, it seems to me that G.RO comes into the game with a set of concrete plays hes going to run no matter the type of game situations or defensive personel. He doesnt make adjustments and he doesnt exploit the defense. In fact one of the only times Ive seen him go after a defense is the GB game last year, he saw their weakness and exploited it. I dont think G.RO is very witty because when it comes down to games against teams like Seattle and Indy, we make them look better than they are with our anemic offensive game plan or lack thereof. Where is the imagination in the redzone? Why dont we run combo routes? Why do we have a slot WR in KW playing the outside? Why arent we trying to exploit that match up of a LB on a WR? If teams adjust and bring in another corner to cover our slot then we pound the ball, it seems like all of us "arm chair" gms/coordinators get this so why doesnt he? I think there is a reason not too many NFL/College teams havent beaten down our doors for this guy and we are starting to see why IMO.
Roman is definitely a great play designer but i feel we need more rhythm in our offense. Maybe continue to let him game plan and install his stuff but have someone else handle the play calling.

I wonder if Harbaugh kept calling for 94 power on that drive.
Usually I b***h at the forum for whining but I have to agree with you considerably with respect to Roman.

Granted, it was early in the season and they clearly wanted to test the waters on some things, but when you lose doing it that is an indication of reaching for answers and not being Superbowl ready out of the gate.

Understandable though considering the injuries, and it being the first few games.

Now they've gone back to ground pound, with some really great plays, knowing that is what they need to do until the injuries resolve themselves.

Expecting a much more dynamic offense as key players return, plus we will have a fierce run game in rhythm.

Roman is far from stupid.

Roman is far from unimaginative.

Roman is not a fool.

We are 1 game out of leading the NFC with major injuries confounding the game plan.

If anything....hats off to Roman.

But hey, lets just continue whining and knowing everything eh?

Originally posted by 49erWay:
Usually I b***h at the forum for whining but I have to agree with you considerably with respect to Roman.

Granted, it was early in the season and they clearly wanted to test the waters on some things, but when you lose doing it that is an indication of reaching for answers and not being Superbowl ready out of the gate.

Understandable though considering the injuries, and it being the first few games.

Now they've gone back to ground pound, with some really great plays, knowing that is what they need to do until the injuries resolve themselves.

Expecting a much more dynamic offense as key players return, plus we will have a fierce run game in rhythm.

Roman is far from stupid.

Roman is far from unimaginative.

Roman is not a fool.

We are 1 game out of leading the NFC with major injuries confounding the game plan.

If anything....hats off to Roman.

But hey, lets just continue whining and knowing everything eh?


not about that. you experiment in the preseason not during the regular season.

and we're 4-2 and could be 6-0 we wasted 2 stellar performances from our defense. urgency should be the key.

the only problems i have with him is he doesn't use the personnel we do have..forget waiting on people to return.

and he gets cute at the wrong time in the red zone. and this has been an issue since day 1. other than that he's ok with me
Originally posted by Squidp:
Roman is definitely a great play designer but i feel we need more rhythm in our offense. Maybe continue to let him game plan and install his stuff but have someone else handle the play calling.

I wonder if Harbaugh kept calling for 94 power on that drive.

He's a great theoretical guy when it comes to run play design but he's not a natural play-caller, he's off playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess, his playcalling has no flow to it, no rhythm, I often feel like he's up there in the booth, throwing darts at the wall or tossing a quarter and using that to decide which play he should use, he's just all over the place, up and down, up and down, great call, bad call, good call, horrible call, no consistency in the slightest. If anything, he's consistent in that he's maddeningly inconsistent.
He deserves some props for sticking with the run game and not getting impatient the past few games (STL HOU ARI). He started off the year impatient and the GB game made him wett his panties. The SEA game pissed him off so he tried to reestablish the Kap cannon versus IND, but SEA gave a blueprint on how to play the 49ers.
Thought I should post here as well:

OK since I didn't expect anyone to watch/analyze the Cards game (and the Texans game we only had 6 completions), I did...I watched every single passing play again in the first half and guess what I counted/saw?

One-read passes to the "annointed receiver" = 100% of the time. There were 21 passing attempts.

This means the play-calling dictates the receivers, not CK via progression-reading.

Details:
Almost all passes were under 3 seconds (or designed that way). The very first pass of the game was a little iffy but it looked like it was Boldin all the way (incomplete). He had two passing plays where he had to scramble and threw it away (coaching). He had a very head's up play for the TD to VD on an obvious offsides (free play) by the defense and Davis was the annointed receiver on this route as well. It seemed like we only had a few different passing plays in general. McDonald did a great job taking a S with him to clear out VD underneath on wheel-route type completions. The other standard play was the right-sprint-out with CK to either Boldin or Miller. In fact, he hesitated on the Miller pass in the EZ, it got tipped and INT. Also, he probably could have had 2 more INT's forcing it in to the annointed receiver with blanket coverage. One was pathetic...3rd and 10ish and he throws to VD about 5 yards short of the 1st down, forces it in there and I have no idea how VD caught it = punt. Another issue was when Baldwin who appeared to be the annointed receiver was running across the field WIDE OPEN on 2nd and 18, CK stares him down the entire way and then decides to run up the gut for 17 instead. To simplify the passing game even further, the commentator made an astute observation...run or pass, follow Bruce Miller and that is where the ball is going. He's right the mass majority of the time too. Follow him and you'll find Gore/Hunter. In the passing game, he is the receiver out in the flat or just ahead blocking for the receiver underneath. Follow Bruce Miller. The second TD to VD, CK looked off the S to the left and then hit VD in the EZ on the right. Nice veteran play but it was still VD all the way (as the commentator noted as well). Most passes were in the middle of the field. Both Boldin and Williams had 3rd down completions from the slot where they ran an uncontested straight-line route, faked left, caught the ball, spun right and turned up field (we could have run this play all game long BTW). At the 1:06 while driving with a good rhythm, this was an interesting play. We have a 4 WR-set. The Cards bring serious press coverage at the LOS AND blitz their middle LBers; only 2 deep S's to the left side (about 10 yards of the LOS). CK is pressured instantly and fumbles. THIS is a crappy play call and clearly, there was no "hot read." When we run a 4 WR-set it's almost always 2 or 3 WR's sprint deep (in this case, right into the S's) and one WR cuts underneath (Williams from the X, from left to right). CK had no chance to hit anyone as it takes a few seconds to clear out space underneath for Williams (who also looked like he was half-assing it). This could have lead to 3 or 7 points and deflated the Cards already up 22-14 at that point.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 16, 2013 at 1:03 PM ]
I wonder how good harbaugh would be at calling all the plays by himself? A lot of wasted time would be eliminated getting the play in. or let roman radio in directly to kap.
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I like Roman. Apparently some of you have once again been sippin' from the cup of our past. NOBODY ON THIS STAFF IS CLOSE TO BILL WALSH. Have you guys forgot about the decade of defeat?
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