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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by sfout:
You do realize that "We didn't execute" is the high-brow way of saying "They didn't beat us. We beat ourselves." Which I distinctly remember many, many people on this board hating on other teams for saying those phrases.

The question about Vernon is the exact same thing.

PD: Did they do anything different?
CK: No, they just had coverages that didn't let him go deep

2 ways to interpret his response

Translation 1: No they didn't, they just had faster/stronger players that kept him from going down field (only way to explain 1 team doing the same thing but producing a different result)
Translation 2: Yes they used coverage that didn't allow VD to go downfield. (no competitive player wants to publicly admit that they failed)

Doesn't matter how you put it. Talking to media is just saying the bare minimum you can say without coming off like an a**hole, admitting you're a bad player/had a bad game, or flat out got outplayed by a better team.

Third down question
PD: How can you improve on third down?
CK: We have to execute better

Translation 1: We have to do a better job executing - word for word what he said. But again it can just mean that they got outplayed by the other players on the field
Translation 2: We didn't have the right plays called and couldn't audible to a good counter play. (Basically saying we need to "execute better" at anything from film study, play calling, reading the defense, beating our man after the snap. etc. which again is admitting failure.)

Way their playing
PD: What you like about the way you're playing now?
CK: We're executing, opportunity shows and we make plays

Translation 1: We're studying right, preparing right so we know exactly what and how to run (the on the surface response)
Translation 2: We outplayed our opponent in all phases (what a blunt person would say but you'd sound like an a**hole)


----

Talking to the media is an art. Fans and members of the press alike can twist their words into anything they want to hear, whether it sells the papers/link clicks or calms your nerves after a bad game.

"We didn't execute" is a sports cliche that if you take at face value is a completely hollow statement that doesn't provide any real explanation or answer. Players and coaches say these things to protect themselves and to not be jacka**es to their "colleagues" in the NFL. By saying what is PC and non-controversial you keep everything open when it comes to future employment, not angering the fans (in most cases), etc.
thank you.

he comes in and says kap says we didn't execute so roman isn't the culprit

lol

who is we?

exactly
No argument Adrian. Also kap does have to learn 4-6 yd 1-3 step drop passes this week. Inexcusable not to have that pass...which he has had in the past. Practice kap, practice. Additionally roman just has to get over not using the middle of the field up close. He refuses to do so and we are just giving 4-6 yds to the D when we don't go there. Lastly if we could ever develop a bubble screen or krap, any screen, we would be 10-20% better with all 3 of the above.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
No argument Adrian. Also kap does have to learn 4-6 yd 1-3 step drop passes this week. Inexcusable not to have that pass...which he has had in the past. Practice kap, practice. Additionally roman just has to get over not using the middle of the field up close. He refuses to do so and we are just giving 4-6 yds to the D when we don't go there. Lastly if we could ever develop a bubble screen or krap, any screen, we would be 10-20% better with all 3 of the above.

Kap has to continue to grow correct
my feeling is that Kap is unique and they don't know what to do.
It's a dilemma. When you have a player than can literally do everything what do you tell him to do?
We've run 4 different offenses in a 23 game span including the playoffs with him as the qb.. all of the information it takes to even run 2 is more than many of us could handle.. on the outside we're saying he's not doing this or that..some of it is correct but i don't speak in absolutes when dealing with kap.

if he doesn't do it, it's because he's not instructed to 80% of the time. the running lanes have been there the entire year.. you cannot convince me they instructed him not to run up until now.. cannot do it we know its true.

every time there's a roar about what he can't do, isn't it funny how they insert that into the offense and then he does it? is that not trolling?

he can't stay in the pocket.. he does
can't read progressions then they put them in and he does..
can't check down suddenly after not having check downs now he does and he hits them...
can't throw a touch pass suddenly makes several.
we can go on and on and on.
it's a dysfunctional hybrid offense. hopefully it becomes the elite hybrid i believe we can be.

stop run..pass
play pass man...kap runs
play pass zone..pick you apart...
crowd the box..play action bomb..

there's nothing you should be able to do.

and keep in mind..and yes im going to keep saying it WE STILL DON'T USE ALL OUR WEAPONS PROPERLY
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Kap has to continue to grow correct
my feeling is that Kap is unique and they don't know what to do.
It's a dilemma. When you have a player than can literally do everything what do you tell him to do?
We've run 4 different offenses in a 23 game span including the playoffs with him as the qb.. all of the information it takes to even run 2 is more than many of us could handle.. on the outside we're saying he's not doing this or that..some of it is correct but i don't speak in absolutes when dealing with kap.

if he doesn't do it, it's because he's not instructed to 80% of the time. the running lanes have been there the entire year.. you cannot convince me they instructed him not to run up until now.. cannot do it we know its true.

every time there's a roar about what he can't do, isn't it funny how they insert that into the offense and then he does it? is that not trolling?

he can't stay in the pocket.. he does
can't read progressions then they put them in and he does..
can't check down suddenly after not having check downs now he does and he hits them...
can't throw a touch pass suddenly makes several.
we can go on and on and on.
it's a dysfunctional hybrid offense. hopefully it becomes the elite hybrid i believe we can be.

stop run..pass
play pass man...kap runs
play pass zone..pick you apart...
crowd the box..play action bomb..

there's nothing you should be able to do.

and keep in mind..and yes im going to keep saying it WE STILL DON'T USE ALL OUR WEAPONS PROPERLY

This seems like a very likely description of what's going on. It is also likely that CK's regression in throwing short passes is a result of inconsistent play calling...not calling short passes often enough to keep his game sharp.

I truly believe they need to do what the team did with Montana--drill the basics every off season so that he didn't have to think about the touch passes or drops or many other aspects of the offense. That's what CK needs because he has all the rest. But it's hard to tell a purebred to practice being a trotter! LOL...I can see the coaches being somewhat awkward about just what he should practice...Walsh would not be at all confused. I can't believe Harbaugh is either...perplexing!

As far as using all there weapons...just don't understand it unless practice hasn't gone well with various guys--James, Patton, McDonald...
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
This seems like a very likely description of what's going on. It is also likely that CK's regression in throwing short passes is a result of inconsistent play calling...not calling short passes often enough to keep his game sharp.

I truly believe they need to do what the team did with Montana--drill the basics every off season so that he didn't have to think about the touch passes or drops or many other aspects of the offense. That's what CK needs because he has all the rest. But it's hard to tell a purebred to practice being a trotter! LOL...I can see the coaches being somewhat awkward about just what he should practice...Walsh would not be at all confused. I can't believe Harbaugh is either...perplexing!

As far as using all there weapons...just don't understand it unless practice hasn't gone well with various guys--James, Patton, McDonald...

its constantly on display. as soon as someone says he can't.. he does..
i honestly think they're afraid.

as far as weapons go, this team doesn't do the rookie thing. james wouldn't have played last year if hunter didn't tear his acl.
hunter and james barely get the snaps they need. patton doesn't get chances badlwin couldn't get time over williams. they spent this season making macdonald an elite blocker which is cool but he's here for catching passes which he did well at his college.

i just think we're going to get it all going starting monday. don't ask me why.. i just do.

as far as kap goes
they could literally game plan anything every week and he can go out and do it.
but it's hard to key in on things.
it's like grocery shopping every week and you forget a few things on the list..

ok execute the hard count, hand off, pitch, option read, play action, check down, intermediate, shot play, screen pass, bootleg and ar route....

they won't EVER do it

but they could just run a different type of offense every series.. lol there aren't any other qb's you could do that with.. im sorry but you couldn't
You know what? I gotta be honest, I used to hate Roman and his play callings until I started reading the coaches film breakdown thread by johnnydel, that shined the light on me that Roman is not that bad as a OC than most of us in here thinks. I mean, he's not the greatest either but he is way better than most of us give him credit for. Yes, some of his play calls are very questionable but it all comes down to the players execution of the play too. I remember the players praised him and raving about him being very creative and a genius of a OC. Im not saying that I totally love him as an OC, but I think he's better than some of the OC candidates that's being mentioned around here. One of the things I hate tho, is the conservative play calls when were leading, even if its not by much. If the lead is more than 28 points then I don't mind the conservative play call to kill time off of the clock. Just my opinion.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
This seems like a very likely description of what's going on. It is also likely that CK's regression in throwing short passes is a result of inconsistent play calling...not calling short passes often enough to keep his game sharp.

I truly believe they need to do what the team did with Montana--drill the basics every off season so that he didn't have to think about the touch passes or drops or many other aspects of the offense. That's what CK needs because he has all the rest. But it's hard to tell a purebred to practice being a trotter! LOL...I can see the coaches being somewhat awkward about just what he should practice...Walsh would not be at all confused. I can't believe Harbaugh is either...perplexing!

As far as using all there weapons...just don't understand it unless practice hasn't gone well with various guys--James, Patton, McDonald...

Exactly, even if that means making your AR "the" RB. We only had one in the first half of the Bucs game (middle of the field - 5 yard gain on 1st down, which is great!). And again, with all the added attention to Crabtree, VD and Boldin, these flare out and delayed check outs are WIDE open. If we can keep hitting these, CK will not only get into a nice rhythm but make the defense adjust of which THEN we can go back to the intermediate passing game. If this coaching staff can teach CK to hit his AR under 3 seconds and if it's NOT there, immediately look to the check downs, we'd be rolling b/c they are all open all the time...Gore, Hunter, Miller and even James last game. Use 'em and watch what happens...you may see 3 or 4 TD's come out of it like in KC last week.
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
You know what? I gotta be honest, I used to hate Roman and his play callings until I started reading the coaches film breakdown thread by johnnydel, that shined the light on me that Roman is not that bad as a OC than most of us in here thinks. I mean, he's not the greatest either but he is way better than most of us give him credit for. Yes, some of his play calls are very questionable but it all comes down to the players execution of the play too. I remember the players praised him and raving about him being very creative and a genius of a OC. Im not saying that I totally love him as an OC, but I think he's better than some of the OC candidates that's being mentioned around here. One of the things I hate tho, is the conservative play calls when were leading, even if its not by much. If the lead is more than 28 points then I don't mind the conservative play call to kill time off of the clock. Just my opinion.

his issue is play calling, timing of play calling, keeping the offense in a consistent rhythm, and red zone play calling.

it's not the plays, it's when he calls the plays and when he doesn't and what type of plan he puts together and how they effect the team.

he put together 4 so so plans and ended up with 4 l's

cannot wing it in the nfl the talent level isn't that far apart ...we're more talented but the teams we face aren't slouches.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Exactly, even if that means making your AR "the" RB. We only had one in the first half of the Bucs game (middle of the field - 5 yard gain on 1st down, which is great!). And again, with all the added attention to Crabtree, VD and Boldin, these flare out and delayed check outs are WIDE open. If we can keep hitting these, CK will not only get into a nice rhythm but make the defense adjust of which THEN we can go back to the intermediate passing game. If this coaching staff can teach CK to hit his AR under 3 seconds and if it's NOT there, immediately look to the check downs, we'd be rolling b/c they are all open all the time...Gore, Hunter, Miller and even James last game. Use 'em and watch what happens...you may see 3 or 4 TD's come out of it like in KC last week.

part of that is drop.
they never call 3 steps anymore like they did last year. like the play that sealed the patriot game was a quick drop and quick recognition pass..

if colin is under center its long hand off fake pitch or 5-7 step drop always

and then in shotgun or pistol those type of plays don't get called.

like i said, he can do whatever you tell him to, just work it into the plan or literally just tell him what he should do on each play and he'll do it.

it's like they have a cyborg back there.
Adrian, you basically just reinforced my fears...ie, does roman, or really HaRo have the "IT" to push us over the goal line. Horrid game planning, more horrible play calling against the elite teams (and no I didn't forget we crunched a very good GB team in game 1)....can HaRo overcome the "fear" of playing an elite team? Now, we got a partial answer against SEA at home. My question is that for a guy I pegged as the savior of this franchise, is Harbaugh able to put a string of well planned , well called games together against the very types of teams we have lost to this yr? I still believe in harbaugh, but I am suspicious that when the rubber hits the road, he goes into some kind of shell...the kind we call "playing not to lose".

Kap is another issue. I had not been convinced that he was the problem or was it the playcalls or game planning. In fact it was a combination. Kap's shortcomings had been staring down receivers, running out of time on 24 second clock, not seeing open receivers, completely losing his ability to hit anyone on a short hitter over the middle or slant "short 4-6 yrd" pass. After reviewing jonnydel's incredible "learning tapes", a lot of what kap has done I never noticed. Now, whether we have an AR or PS playcalled, one of out best outcomes comes from busted plays...and there kap is a wizard, whether in a Houdini escape or those two recent sideline passes of 15 and 23 yds, where both receivers were standing just inside the OOB line...that is where I see greatness.

From the above, the coaching, playcalling is by far and away the most troublesome. I didn't mention kap's great points as most know them. In slow mo, with arrow instruction, it is apparent that kap is playing very well, except for the lapses noted above. Ergo, the playcalling, the balling up into a protective shell on O playcalls...those are the things that will bring us down unless HaRo can overcome what makes one wonder "are they afraid of being bold, and doing the things necessary to go out and take away a game from an elite competitor?". At present, just guessing, I would say that Coach H is on the precipice of overcoming the need to "play not to lose"...thus causing a loss.

Also, the "brain fades" in the games with ELITE teams...I have no idea what that means unless it again is, "playing not to lose". Can HaRo overcome that insidious, treacherous thot process? I don't know because HaRo has beaten elites, and then next week fallen off a cliff. I wonder at times if kap ever worries "if Coach will have his schidt together today or not?" Probably not, as kap has more than enough to worry about anyway.

What I do see is a great team, with superior talent, poised to win. Question is will Coach H, or HaRo, take the leap?
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
part of that is drop.
they never call 3 steps anymore like they did last year. like the play that sealed the patriot game was a quick drop and quick recognition pass..

if colin is under center its long hand off fake pitch or 5-7 step drop always

and then in shotgun or pistol those type of plays don't get called.

like i said, he can do whatever you tell him to, just work it into the plan or literally just tell him what he should do on each play and he'll do it.

it's like they have a cyborg back there.

It really is! CK is a company man and he'll do whatever the coaches want and "execute" to the best of his abilities. I feel like he is lacking some fundamental coaching here and at times, we aren't calling plays to help him out much. I wonder if CK, Miller, Boldin, Crabtree, etc. hadn't of made all those amazing individual-effort ad lib plays, if we'd be talking about a loss this week vs. "a great game plan" by Roman. It's good to look at both angles and point out both the positives and negatives. Help CK out!!!
There's no reason to fear, we're not that far away from being where we should be.
It's not gloom and doom we were just (rightfully so) super critical of roman for all the reasons we kept saying.
planning, calling, adjustments, utilization.

And it's all play calling and planning we have the most diverse playbook in the nfl so it's not the plays.. it's getting them right consistently. and not depending on 1 play being the difference in a game (calling the pass to macdonald only once) (the flare out pass to gore) we shouldn't be able to pinpoint those things. but we can because they only happened once.

he has improved... against the seahawks everyone in here has said you beat the seahawks by power running. that's been a constant in here. week 2 we went away from it, everyone here was angry because of it while seattle rushed 40 times.

last game.. what was the play that sealed it? a power run.. like we've been calling for against them. what's the plan going forward? better be a power run...
he called it late and stuck with it which we wanted him to do and it worked.

against the bucs.. they took a shot down the field and it just missed but it was open. in weeks past, if that happened we'd just be wondering about the what if's of that play because we would never try it again.. instead he went right back to it and connected.. that's improvement.. he got crab open deep and didn't connect, monday crab will catch 2 bombs and 10 passes overall you can guarantee that.. that's improvement..

their mantra is you're either getting better or getting worse you're not staying the same.

for 4 games roman was getting worse the rest he's been getting better.

and as long as he continues to get better we've got the talent to beat anyone. it's not even a leap...
1st season we didn't have weapons to win it all.
last season the defense just came out and got beat every 1st half then shut down teams in the 2nd and the special teams coverage was horrible but if you're giving up 24 points in a half. and 21 or 28 in a half.. its tough sledding.
if we had this defensive effort with last year offense we're the champs..

which is why i said this season we put it together.
Originally posted by NCommand:
It really is! CK is a company man and he'll do whatever the coaches want and "execute" to the best of his abilities. I feel like he is lacking some fundamental coaching here and at times, we aren't calling plays to help him out much. I wonder if CK, Miller, Boldin, Crabtree, etc. hadn't of made all those amazing individual-effort ad lib plays, if we'd be talking about a loss this week vs. "a great game plan" by Roman. It's good to look at both angles and point out both the positives and negatives. Help CK out!!!

we could, and that's an issue too, the great talent hides things at times.

it comes back to utilization. it took us only dressing 4wr to get hunter and james more involved.. that shouldn't be the case..
he called some good plays the problem was him and vic both shut down the team at half time. came out 3rd quarter and was just going through the motions and let the bucs back in. and then went back to full throttle and put the game away

we can't do that.

we can't keep letting teams score at the end of halves just because we're up..

we need those things corrected
Agreed, Adrian, but like I said, HaRo has to get over the playing not to lose syndrome. It has been in every loss this yr...and all to ELITE teams. That is what makes me uneasy. Just talking about it doesn't do it. And this is primarily on Coach Harbaugh, moreso than anyone else. If we get up by 20, and Vic goes into a prevent D, well, that is JH's job to call. Same on O, we get up by 20, we just run 3 and outs. That is Jim Harbaugh. Somehow, he has to remove the switch on "play not to lose", and he'll be fine.

Easier said than done, however. Not one team in playoffs will be able to win by playing "Not to lose". I sure hope that we don't play that way, because if so, I could see us running the table.
they've been trolling us.
everything we wanted will happen
playoff time there will be nothing left on the table on either side of the ball.

this is the only team in the nfl built to beat everybody and win everywhere.

there is now no weakness to attack on this team

the only weakness is ourselves

that's just being truthful not even a homer.

defense...what offense scares you? we've faced them all..

offensively what defense is equipped to stop power run and pass?

nobody..

we just have to do what we do and as dennis green said "not let them off the hook"