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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Sincal, that actually got a good laugh out of me.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Interesting or morbid....

I guess I just don't understand not having a back-up for this position already on the team. It's really a head scratcher (and I said this last year when he was hurt). What concerns me the most about the coaching staff on offense is it appears they don't learn from their mistakes, or even learn from their success. It's not just plays - it's EVERYTHING; philosophy, personnel, play design, etc. If blocking is potentially an issue, then running when there are 9 guys in the box will be even more challenging than it's ever been and it's not too late for the 49ers to drop out of the 6th seed. We have consecutive must-win/trap-game(s) coming up and I hate to be a skeptic.

It's scary...with all the excuses of personnel thrown out the window, we're still barely throwing for 200 yards and last game VD had a huge bomb to help raise that number (rare for us). That's fine if we're running effectively and eating up the clock on purpose but let's be real here, CK and Miller, Crabtree, Boldin and VD had to make insane plays just to be "serviceable." Like the Seattle game, we should have dominated, finished and put them to bed early. Yet here we are...only one AR1 design passing play for a RB/FB, McDonald is inactive, we leaned pretty heavily on Celek and Miller, had only 1 catch for Manningham and our top receiver had 5 receptions while Miller had 4. Not exactly a "dynamic offense." We should be tunning up right now for the run and putting the offense together.

Here's yet another example .....

Who replaces Bruce Miller at fullback? Anthony Dixon did so at the end of the game. Tight end Derek Carrier also played one snap there earlier. Carrier has been getting rave reviews in practice for his athleticism, especially in the passing game. However, he played wide receiver in college. Converting him to tight end - much less fullback - promises to take an offseason at least.

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/12/film-review-49ers-dont-wilt-in-florida-crabtrees-suddenness-tight-end-troubles.html#storylink=cpy

So why isn't this guy running pass patterns and why isn't he a designated AR1/2/3? It's clear McDonald is having issues with his health so if Carrier is really opening eyes in practice why not a couple a of plays that showcase his skills?

Again this is why I have very little faith because it would seem it doesn't matter how well newcomers perform on this team, we only incorporate them into the offense when there's an injury rather than providing reps on the field when it's clear there's issue with offensive performance.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Interesting or morbid....

I guess I just don't understand not having a back-up for this position already on the team. It's really a head scratcher (and I said this last year when he was hurt). What concerns me the most about the coaching staff on offense is it appears they don't learn from their mistakes, or even learn from their success. It's not just plays - it's EVERYTHING; philosophy, personnel, play design, etc. If blocking is potentially an issue, then running when there are 9 guys in the box will be even more challenging than it's ever been and it's not too late for the 49ers to drop out of the 6th seed. We have consecutive must-win/trap-game(s) coming up and I hate to be a skeptic.

It's scary...with all the excuses of personnel thrown out the window, we're still barely throwing for 200 yards and last game VD had a huge bomb to help raise that number (rare for us). That's fine if we're running effectively and eating up the clock on purpose but let's be real here, CK and Miller, Crabtree, Boldin and VD had to make insane plays just to be "serviceable." Like the Seattle game, we should have dominated, finished and put them to bed early. Yet here we are...only one AR1 design passing play for a RB/FB, McDonald is inactive, we leaned pretty heavily on Celek and Miller, had only 1 catch for Manningham and our top receiver had 5 receptions while Miller had 4. Not exactly a "dynamic offense." We should be tunning up right now for the run and putting the offense together.

Here's yet another example .....

Who replaces Bruce Miller at fullback? Anthony Dixon did so at the end of the game. Tight end Derek Carrier also played one snap there earlier. Carrier has been getting rave reviews in practice for his athleticism, especially in the passing game. However, he played wide receiver in college. Converting him to tight end - much less fullback - promises to take an offseason at least.

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/12/film-review-49ers-dont-wilt-in-florida-crabtrees-suddenness-tight-end-troubles.html#storylink=cpy

So why isn't this guy running pass patterns and why isn't he a designated AR1/2/3? It's clear McDonald is having issues with his health so if Carrier is really opening eyes in practice why not a couple a of plays that showcase his skills?

Again this is why I have very little faith because it would seem it doesn't matter how well newcomers perform on this team, we only incorporate them into the offense when there's an injury rather than providing reps on the field when it's clear there's issue with offensive performance.

This is what has frustrated me ALL year long...we had plenty of OTHER talent, we just didn't use them or develop them. And with this simple AR passing game and basic receiver routes, why could we not target the others while every DC in America was 100% focused on Boldin and VD? Like last game...we called an AR1 for the first time all year to Miller in the short, middle of the field on the heels of a VD route; an easy 5 yard gain on 1st down. Simple. Now you're in 2nd and 5 and can 100% open up your playbook. We could have done that all year with Hunter, James, Baldwin, McDonald, etc. Simply call in their number. Guys like the aforementioned plus Manningham should be blowing up right now with the added focus on Crabtree, Boldin and VD (naturally). But it's the same ol'.

PS: And like I said all year, a real OC shows his true colors when there is some adversity (not to mention we knew of Crabtree & Manningham's status BEFORE the year even started)...look around the NFL and all the success teams have had with 1/2 the talent we had. Look at all these sucecssful no-names made better by OC's simply game planning them and coaching them up.
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Interesting or morbid....

I guess I just don't understand not having a back-up for this position already on the team. It's really a head scratcher (and I said this last year when he was hurt). What concerns me the most about the coaching staff on offense is it appears they don't learn from their mistakes, or even learn from their success. It's not just plays - it's EVERYTHING; philosophy, personnel, play design, etc. If blocking is potentially an issue, then running when there are 9 guys in the box will be even more challenging than it's ever been and it's not too late for the 49ers to drop out of the 6th seed. We have consecutive must-win/trap-game(s) coming up and I hate to be a skeptic.

It's scary...with all the excuses of personnel thrown out the window, we're still barely throwing for 200 yards and last game VD had a huge bomb to help raise that number (rare for us). That's fine if we're running effectively and eating up the clock on purpose but let's be real here, CK and Miller, Crabtree, Boldin and VD had to make insane plays just to be "serviceable." Like the Seattle game, we should have dominated, finished and put them to bed early. Yet here we are...only one AR1 design passing play for a RB/FB, McDonald is inactive, we leaned pretty heavily on Celek and Miller, had only 1 catch for Manningham and our top receiver had 5 receptions while Miller had 4. Not exactly a "dynamic offense." We should be tunning up right now for the run and putting the offense together.

Here's yet another example .....

Who replaces Bruce Miller at fullback? Anthony Dixon did so at the end of the game. Tight end Derek Carrier also played one snap there earlier. Carrier has been getting rave reviews in practice for his athleticism, especially in the passing game. However, he played wide receiver in college. Converting him to tight end - much less fullback - promises to take an offseason at least.

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/12/film-review-49ers-dont-wilt-in-florida-crabtrees-suddenness-tight-end-troubles.html#storylink=cpy

So why isn't this guy running pass patterns and why isn't he a designated AR1/2/3? It's clear McDonald is having issues with his health so if Carrier is really opening eyes in practice why not a couple a of plays that showcase his skills?

Again this is why I have very little faith because it would seem it doesn't matter how well newcomers perform on this team, we only incorporate them into the offense when there's an injury rather than providing reps on the field when it's clear there's issue with offensive performance.

This is what has frustrated me ALL year long...we had plenty of OTHER talent, we just didn't use them or develop them. And with this simple AR passing game and basic receiver routes, why could we not target the others while every DC in America was 100% focused on Boldin and VD? Like last game...we called an AR1 for the first time all year to Miller in the short, middle of the field on the heels of a VD route; an easy 5 yard gain on 1st down. Simple. Now you're in 2nd and 5 and can 100% open up your playbook. We could have done that all year with Hunter, James, Baldwin, McDonald, etc. Simply call in their number. Guys like the aforementioned plus Manningham should be blowing up right now with the added focus on Crabtree, Boldin and VD (naturally). But it's the same ol'.

PS: And like I said all year, a real OC shows his true colors when there is some adversity (not to mention we knew of Crabtree & Manningham's status BEFORE the year even started)...look around the NFL and all the success teams have had with 1/2 the talent we had. Look at all these sucecssful no-names made better by OC's simply game planning them and coaching them up.

But don't you see? Roman "saves" those plays until the end of the game. No one will ever suspect an AR pass to someone that we never throw to during games - think back to the McDonald drop on 3rd down against Carolina. Unfortunately that works both ways .... if you never throw to him, he may not be ready for a clutch play. Why only call this play on a 3rd down with added pressure to make the catch and why never call this again if you are trying to expand/develop your offense? The same could be said for any of the players you mentioned,using them not only as a "runner" or "catcher" running a simple route or running straight ahead.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Dec 17, 2013 at 11:34 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
But don't you see? Roman "saves" those plays until the end of the game - think back to the McDonald drop on 3rd down against Carolina. Why only call this play on a 3rd down with added pressure to make the catch and why never call this again if you are trying to expand/develop your offense? The same could be said for any of the players you mentioned,using them not only as a "runner" or "catcher" running a simple route or running straight ahead.

LOL. That was the other beef I had...why use McDonald and Baldwin in the most lowest percentage of passing plays cold? To justify benching them? And ironically, what do most teams do when a guy drops a ball? They go right back to him! The idea of "rhythm" is completely lost on Roman whether it's not running at the end of the Superbowl, Indy with full momentum, with the QB and his receivers early in the short game to soften up the run game, etc. He sits guys all game long and expects them to come in cold off the bench to make tremendous, game-changing plays. These aren't chess pieces...they are humans that need to be incorporated into a game and get into a rhythm. When have we ever come out on a designed game plan for simple short yardage passes to get CK flowing? Ever? It's 100% intermediate passing game...
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 17, 2013 at 12:07 PM ]
Man, NC, is that ever a bottom line succinct synopsis. NO way to say it better. Makes me sick , tho.

Incidentally, GM, when I went back and rewound that pass attempt, on the third or fourth try I saw what a had thot I had seen during the game. The LB had vance's Lt hand pinned to his waist/upper thigh. It was a hold all the way, and no way for vance to have caught that. Of course, no flag. Pass was perfect, Vance was open but MLB had vance's left hand pinned. He never got many chances after that supposedly relatively easy catch...yet it wasn't his fault. Still, it just adds to what you and NC have said.

As an addendum to NC's remark about not getting other guys invested timewise in the game, during that 5 game win streak where we beat everyone by 31pts, there was the time to have gotten other guys some game time, some experience. I wrote about that, earlier on, but not much was said about it. Jeez, that is what a coach prays for, is a run of games that are gimmes, where he CAN get backups in to see if they REALLY are backups and not starters. In the case of Tramaine, well, there you go. How many other guys sit the pine, when they are legit starters or could spell our starters? That is BAD COACHING, at its worst, and both JH and roman share equally in blame. At the very best, that was incredibly stupid. At the worst, maybe they learned nothing from the guys on the bench. But not using that valuable time to evaluate what you have is just flat inexcusably stooopid. STOOOOOPID.

One other aspect of this is that in the NFL (not for long), if you trade a bench warmer and he turns out to be an allpro elsewhere, a) the HC looks stupid and b)the HC has literally cheated his team and fans of a potentially great player that they ultimately get to see play elsewhere. For drafting, how the hell can a HC and GM and OC and DC go into a draft if they have no idea how those benchwarmers might do with some playing time. Maybe it turns out that extra WR we needed, we actually had on the bench...and so on. Noln was horrible about this and same for B.M.

Just look at the Saints game. By games end, Brees had completed passes to 11(Yeah ELEVEN) different players. Long ago I learned as a benchwarmer that really good coaches work like mad to know what they have on the bench.(Unh, no I wasn't one of those undiscovered wonders) .But the point was if the benchwarmers got a little bit of time, they had an investment in that team, and paid attention to each and every play. Why? Because their number might just be called next. It makes sense from so many standpoints, yet here we have our OC,DC and HC all not subscribing to it.

BAD COACHING from a guy who truly knows better. And a damn site better for overall team morale. In the tight games, guys sit the pine. But in gimmes, you play as many as possible and learn all you can from them. That is a great coach. There were times when Joe would end up with passes to 7 or 8 guys, and always the unknowns were virtually the last thing on the Defense's mind.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Dec 17, 2013 at 12:21 PM ]
Here's one for you Roman...4 words: Alex Smith, Screen Pass.

The dude threw 4 passes for a TOTAL of 11 yards yesterday and had 5 TD's. That's how you get a QB, OL and RB/Receiver involved in a game early...develop a "rhythm."

Under Reid, everyone is involved in the game plan and he's had a 122 QBR over the past 4 games alone and putting up non-game manager results.

Again, at the end of the day it comes down to your offensive phislophy. On talent alone, we're going to win a mass majority of the games but in the playoffs and Superbowl, you need that added OC element that makes the difference in the outcome. And I'm not very comfortable in that department yet (to say the least).
Originally posted by NinerGM:
But don't you see? Roman "saves" those plays until the end of the game. No one will ever suspect an AR pass to someone that we never throw to during games - think back to the McDonald drop on 3rd down against Carolina. Unfortunately that works both ways .... if you never throw to him, he may not be ready for a clutch play. Why only call this play on a 3rd down with added pressure to make the catch and why never call this again if you are trying to expand/develop your offense? The same could be said for any of the players you mentioned,using them not only as a "runner" or "catcher" running a simple route or running straight ahead.

If Roman was in charge of a construction site, he'd be fired for trying to raise a structure using a swiss army knife and nothing else
Originally posted by NCommand:
Here's one for you Roman...4 words: Alex Smith, Screen Pass.

The dude threw 4 passes for a TOTAL of 11 yards yesterday and had 5 TD's. That's how you get a QB, OL and RB/Receiver involved in a game early...develop a "rhythm."

Under Reid, everyone is involved in the game plan and he's had a 122 QBR over the past 4 games alone and putting up non-game manager results.

Again, at the end of the day it comes down to your offensive phislophy. On talent alone, we're going to win a mass majority of the games but in the playoffs and Superbowl, you need that added OC element that makes the difference in the outcome. And I'm not very comfortable in that department yet (to say the least).

This won't always be the case as the salary cap takes its toll on this roster. Lack of young development on the offensive side is ALREADY having an impact on this team as we see the results of injuries and the jaw-dropping fall-off in production. It's not just a question of talent, it's a question of rapport/development/reps.
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
But don't you see? Roman "saves" those plays until the end of the game. No one will ever suspect an AR pass to someone that we never throw to during games - think back to the McDonald drop on 3rd down against Carolina. Unfortunately that works both ways .... if you never throw to him, he may not be ready for a clutch play. Why only call this play on a 3rd down with added pressure to make the catch and why never call this again if you are trying to expand/develop your offense? The same could be said for any of the players you mentioned,using them not only as a "runner" or "catcher" running a simple route or running straight ahead.

If Roman was in charge of a construction site, he'd be fired for trying to raise a structure using a swiss army knife and nothing else

I'm sure he'd find some smoke and mirrors and run decoys as interference for him to continue on with the project. And you know the project would be late. LOL
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
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what a stupid answer by Harbaugh

that's what you call lying.

You can instruct Kap to take it down every play but get to the line and make the right call

I really think they believe we're stupid.
I really just wish they'd take the Rasheed Wallace approach during the week cause that's basically what they give us
"Both teams played hard"
Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm sure he'd find some smoke and mirrors and run decoys as interference for him to continue on with the project. And you know the project would be late. LOL

And if by some miracle he was able to lay some cement down he'd smirk and tell the crowd "uh huh uh huh you like that don't you?"
  • xcfan
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roman constantly gets out-coached.
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm sure he'd find some smoke and mirrors and run decoys as interference for him to continue on with the project. And you know the project would be late. LOL

And if by some miracle he was able to lay some cement down he'd smirk and tell the crowd "uh huh uh huh you like that don't you?"

Yeah, he's been saving that one until the end! So funny...
Who wants to bet that we run all of the historic plays in candlestick history during the game at some point, just because ...