Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by JerryRice1848:
What would you guys do if Greg Roman actually calls a screen pass

he might be warming up to that idea. he actually ran a sweep to LMJ yesterday. never thought he'd call that in a million years even though everyones been begging for it forever.

I never thought he'd utilize not one but TWO (designed) deep bombs to our speedy TE. I also never thought he'd use a RB/FB as an AR1 either on 1st down either...

i think theyre holding back on purpose to be honest. he more surprises they have for people in the playoffs the better

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think theyre holding back on purpose to be honest. he more surprises they have for people in the playoffs the better

LMAO! Yeah, I really hope that 1 screen pass we run effectively in all of 2013 will be effective in the playoffs and be the difference in a game!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think theyre holding back on purpose to be honest. he more surprises they have for people in the playoffs the better

LMAO! Yeah, I really hope that 1 screen pass we run effectively in all of 2013 will be effective in the playoffs and be the difference in a game!

they showed some stuff early on and then dialed it back once they had a comfortable lead. i seriously think theyre holding on to some stuff on purpose lol

Originally posted by iLL49er:
how do u make these assessments w/o the all 22 tape? that isn't released yet on nfl game rewind

Pull sh1t out of your ass.....

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think theyre holding back on purpose to be honest. he more surprises they have for people in the playoffs the better

LMAO! Yeah, I really hope that 1 screen pass we run effectively in all of 2013 will be effective in the playoffs and be the difference in a game!

they showed some stuff early on and then dialed it back once they had a comfortable lead. i seriously think theyre holding on to some stuff on purpose lol

That must be why we had McDonald inactive yesterday (keep him fresh/healthy). Come playoff time, NOBODY is going to see that 2nd TE coming at them with all the attention to Gore, Crabtree, Boldin, VD and Manningham!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
NC--the only thing I can disagree with from your recent post, and thank you for the lengthy explanation--it helps a great deal, is the WCO not using the RB coming out of the backfield as a primary receiver. There were many times when the primary receiver was the back. The most obvious situations were tight coverage on the WRs and TE with a heavy rush coming from OLBs. Walsh used to kill pass rushers by using the RB over and over...it was intentional and accomplished two things...slowing down the rush and gaining YAC when the RBs were not or under covered. That's what I want to see more of with Gore, Hunter and James.

I'll keep watching and see if I see the same thing you do. It would help a great deal to have video from above for each play!

You are absolutely correct dtg_9er! Sadly, we haven't utilized this concept (yet). It's especially critical against an aggressive box (6-2) like Seattle. Hopefully that will be the next installation for CK and HaRoMan. That said, you are right, just like CK can be his own AR2 on a designed run, you can absolutely make Gore, Hunter, James, Miller and even McDonald AR's as well by design!

The Bucs/Niner game is on TV (hopefully where you live) so if you get to watch it, record it and let me know what you start to see. I'm hoping for more use of the RB's and more PS plays!

But we do use Miller a lot like Tom Rathman was, we had quite a few designed plays to the FB in the flat. We keep Gore in to block more because he's probably a better pass blocker than a receiver. That's not to say he isn't a good receiver, he's just an exceptional blocker.

Using Miller is a great idea as far as I'm concerned because he is often overlooked by the D. They figure they can always catch up with him...and to some extent they are correct. But I'd really like to see James used more as a swing receiver because of his running style...the guy is very shifty.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
or todays special the dive into Gerald McCoy's belly on 3rd and short

At least it's a large target!

Yes, the full game was on locally! So, here is the breakdown for you of the AR1, 2, Pro Style (PS) and Ad lib passing plays. There were several plays where CK audibled but the AR/PS broke down and he scrambled instead (no pass) and I won't cover those; just the plays where CK actually passed the ball. I also saw this continued trend of blocking first and/or delayed flare outs by all running backs as outlets (love this BTW); they continue to be wide open as well (like in the Hawks game). I saw even more PS plays (some wiped out by delay-of-game penalties or ad lib scrambles by CK). They are very easy to see...any time we go 4 WR's (even if VD is one of them), it's always a PS passing play where CK scans the field and chooses his best option. I continue to see lots of roll-rights by CK and it seems on many of them, CK is running backwards trying to make a play. Gore and others blocked as well as they could on that edge but it appeared the Bucs were all over this play with 2 or 3 guys chasing CK in the backfield on the regular. We didn't take advantage of this (or adjust). I thought we got a couple sacks on poor play designs as well (and execution by the OL). CK and the ad lib receivers really saved so many passing plays today coupled with good DC's coaching of rushing CK backwards all day long (on the scrambles). It seemed like CK had more audibles this game esp. when the Bucs came up to blitz (encouraging).

BTW: It's very easy to determine who the AR is in the play design given CK's head angle/body positioning IMHO.

First Half

1Q:
AR1 @ 13:19 Crabtree @ X (wide left) position, VD off the LOS in the Y (right slot, usually) and Boldin @ the Z (wide right) position. Celek seams up field on the left side of our LT. All 3 run go-routes clearing out VD underneath from right to left behind the DL; hit instantly by CK for 5 yards. Gore flared out late to the right sideline as a outlet.
Ad lib @ 8:41 22 personnel and only Boldin @ the Z position. VD runs a go, corner (of the EZ route, I believe), Boldin runs a go, stop under him and Miller is the AR1 here and flares out under both. CK doesn't pull the trigger right away on a roll-right (for some reason) so naturally, it becomes an ad lib play. He continues his scramble right and eventually, hits Miller for a first down on the right sideline who adjusted well to CK's scramble/ad lib pass. First down on a 3rd down conversion inside the RZ. Boldin would have been the better option here but Miller was the AR.
Ad lib @ 7:15 Boldin @ X position, VD stayed in to block from the Y and Crabtree @ the Z position. It looked like the design was to hit Crabtree right away as the AR1. It was a fake pitch to James who runs left (to isolate Crabtree) while CK rolls right agian. Again, CK doesn't hit him right away (not sure why he's hesitating so much as he too was open) so CK and Crabtree ad lib and get the TD anyhow. It's a terrible design IMHO b/c Miller also ran through the line in the middle while CK instantly starting rolling right...didn't fool anyone for even a second. That said, Crabtree had his man beat (we rely heavily on individual matchups). If Roman was smart, he probably could have run this same play (minus the fake toss left)...getting the D flowing to the right and then passing to James (even a pitch if the DE doesn't come up field) in that flat while Boldin did what he did...slants in and picks off/blocks (i.e. seals the edge) out the defender(s). James was wide open. Smart, safe play on 1st down inside the 10.
AR1 @ 4:57 Boldin @ X position, Celek off the LOS in the Y and Crabtree @ the Z position. This, by far, is our most common AR1 play. Crabtree runs a standard go route and Celek runs a hook underneath him along the sidelines for 9.
AR1 @ 4:23 Crabtree @ X position, Boldin in the left Y and Celek out @ the Z position. VD lines up on the right side of the OL. All 3 run our standard go and VD runs his routes across the formation but 2 yards short of the first down. It became an AR2 as the design was to hit VD in stride across the formation and outrun the LB/S while Crabtree blocks out his DB clearing the left sideline/edge for VD. Crabtree did his part but the S made the tackle early on VD.

2Q:
AR1/Ad lib @ 15:00 Boldin @ X position, VD bunched with him at the left Y and Crabtree @ the Z position. It was a fake handoff to Hunter left (drawing attention to the left side) while CK rolls right to hit the only AR1 on that side (Crabtree). But the Bucs blew it up as Miller didn't get to the DE fast enough to block the edge and CK passes from 15 yards behind the LOS on the run to Crabtree who sees the scramble, comes back along the sidelines for 11 and a first down. It was basically a 30 yard sideways pass on the run. Crazy!
AR1 @ 10:57 Crabtree @ X position, VD on the LOS to the right and Boldin @ the Z position. FINALLY, we use the RB/FB as an AR1. Both Wr's run their standard go route, VD takes off the line on a go taking 2 defenders at first while Miller runs the same pattern on his coat tails but then breaks off the route, plants inside, turns, is hit with the ball instantly and turns up field for 5. This is a play we could murder aggressive/good defenses with (i.e. Seattle last game); this is a play we should use Hunter/James on the most. Now we're in 2nd and 5 and the playbook is open.
PS @ 9:02 5 WR set! Celek @ X position, Boldin to his right and VD stayed in the left slot (Y) while we had Gore in the right slot (Y) and Crabtree @ the Z position. Boldin and VD run go's and it's a quick toss to Celek for 11 as he was given a big cushion by his DB d/t the respect to Boldin/VD. Smart play! This could have been an AR1 design but with this many WR's, it's usually by design to give CK some multiple options and let him choose. Unfortunately, illegal formation by AD.
Ad lib @ 8:31 Crabtree @ X position, Boldin next to him from the left slot (Y) and VD on the LOS to the right with Celek in the Z position just back off the LOS next to him. I believe the AR1 was supposed to be VD who runs a seam deep left route. Crabtree runs out two yards and stops, Boldin runs a slow go route down the sideline and VD blasts off the LOS. CK has to scramble and ad lib a bit but still gets a great throw off to VD that should have been a TD (later it was). I think this was a design to take a shots to VD today.
PS @ 8:21 Boldin @ X position, Celek to his right wide, VD in the slot (Y) and Manningham @ the Z position. Both Celek and VD run go's and Boldin cuts off his route outside and runs across the formation. CK is forced to scramble left on 3rd and 15 but has enough to pass across his body and hit Boldin short who then breaks a tackles and runs to the right side of the field and picks up the first down; good down field blocking by Gore and Manningham.
AR1 @ 7:41 Crabtree @ X position, Celek in the left slot (Y) and Crabtree @ the Z position. VD runs a seam from the right side of the OT and Miller delays and flares out underneath Crabtree/Celek's go routes but CK badly misses his short route.
AR1 @ 3:03 Crabtree @ X position (in slight motion) and Boldin to his right in the slot (Y). VD runs a go from the right side of the OT, Miller runs behind Boldin's deep go while Crabtree breaks his go to the sideline and CK hits him in stride. Boldin's route (go-left) took both Goldon and made Revis hesitate on Crabtree. Nice design. Miller technically took two defenders on this one freeing up Crabtree in the drop-in pass. The previous flare out to Miller may have set up this pass.
AR1 @ 2:04 Crabtree @ X position, Boldin to his right in the slot (Y) and VD @ the Z position. I love this design. Celek from the right side of the RT, runs a straight go towards the right sideline taking a defenser while VD slants inside and is hit in stride by CK in the middle of the field just to the right has mark and turns up field for 13.
AR1 @ 1:56 Boldin @ X position. VD is off the back hip of Celek who is lined up on the LOS next to the RT. Boldin runs somwhat of a slant but VD BLOWS off the LOS. It's him all the way. This time CK hits him in stride deep for the TD. First half over and we're up 17-0 at this juncture.

I am not going to do the second half...unless requested.

Bump ^ for dtg_9er et al.

dbl

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by iLL49er:
how do u make these assessments w/o the all 22 tape? that isn't released yet on nfl game rewind

Pull sh1t out of your ass.....

LOL. Try it...and then speak:

The game was televised/recorded/DVR. Our route running concepts are VERY simple; mostly go's (decoys/clearing out space underneath for AR's). The All 22 just validates this. Also, all you need to do is focus on who the receiver was and work backwards.
Step 1. Ignore: the personnel groupings, who lines up where, their routes, defensive alignments, etc.). Focus on who caught the ball only.
Step 2. Rewind and watch CK's head angle and body positioning (is he looking at this AR all the way)?
Step 3. Rewind again. Now watch the non-AR's to see what part they played in getting that receiver open.
Step 4. Fill in the details and results.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by iLL49er:
how do u make these assessments w/o the all 22 tape? that isn't released yet on nfl game rewind

Pull sh1t out of your ass.....

LOL. Try it...and then speak:

The game was televised/recorded/DVR. Our route running concepts are VERY simple; mostly go's (decoys/clearing out space underneath for AR's). The All 22 just validates this. Also, all you need to do is focus on who the receiver was and work backwards.
Step 1. Ignore: the personnel groupings, who lines up where, their routes, defensive alignments, etc.). Focus on who caught the ball only.
Step 2. Rewind and watch CK's head angle and body positioning (is he looking at this AR all the way)?
Step 3. Rewind again. Now watch the non-AR's to see what part they played in getting that receiver open.
Step 4. Fill in the details and results.

I rewatch every game(all 22 angle) when it becomes available on NFL Rewind. IMO your theory doesn't hold water but we've already argued about this before so no point rehashing. Agree to disagree and carry on.

I was just joking with that response.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think theyre holding back on purpose to be honest. he more surprises they have for people in the playoffs the better

LMAO! Yeah, I really hope that 1 screen pass we run effectively in all of 2013 will be effective in the playoffs and be the difference in a game!

they showed some stuff early on and then dialed it back once they had a comfortable lead. i seriously think theyre holding on to some stuff on purpose lol

That must be why we had McDonald inactive yesterday (keep him fresh/healthy). Come playoff time, NOBODY is going to see that 2nd TE coming at them with all the attention to Gore, Crabtree, Boldin, VD and Manningham!

not sure if i wanna high five you for agreeing with me or punch you in the face for being a smartass

I liked the RB/FB as AR1 down the middle, but wonder why that AR isn't Vance, Baldwin, Hunter or LMJ? All are better hands guys than Miller, who I like also...just not as much.

Sincal from about 5 or 6 pages ago, on the T.O. to call some bogus schidt azz play where Boldin runs smack into a huge DL. Great call roman, you tool.

Once again, really enjoyed the 3 T.O.s that either were called or had to be called(from bench) due to not getting plays in on time. Really Jimbo, just WTF are you guys doing? Are you putting possible play choices on twitter and waiting for the vote? Cripes that is confounding, maddening, off-pizzing, and STOOOOOPID. C'mon guys that is a first yr coach's F/U. Not a 3rd yr coach. Fix it or fire the guy responsible.

OH, yeah, beauty of a call on the Red flag, coach. Do yourself a favor and just keep it in your pocket. If you feel obligated to throw something, sneeze into your kerchief and throw that on the field. At least it won't cost us a T.O. Also who is helping with the red flag issues? OK, HUMPTY DUMBROSKI it is. It looks like his work.

ARs, PS, whatever, our best plays seem to be busted ones, and if the D decides to put the big rush on kap and they let him get wide, he is some kind of sidearm thrower to someone (crbs, miller) standing on the sideline about 11 and 18 yds downfield. We ought to make that part of our playbook.

Seriously without the Houdini passes and runs, we coulda lost this game and that would have been squarely on HaRo. Instead, the Bucs challenged kap and he flat azz beat them with an array of passes that would be hard to explain. Maybe our best bet is to leave roman home, or cellar him as if he were a fine wine, and let kap go out there and play firehouse football. THAT is where our best football gets played. Still gotta have frank and his runs, but just having kap line up with X,Y and Z running crossing routes every play and #85 running burner fly routes, hey we woulda beat bucs by 40 doing that and letting kap do his Houdini stuff.

I believe we have one more coach involved with this than needed...oh, I'll make a wild guess and say...Roman? We basically beat them with #15, #81, #85, #21 and #7...and of course the entire D and OL. Oops, forgot Dawson.

And whoever noted that #85 could have had another 60 yard TD was correct, if Vernon just hadn't let up a bit at end. I wonder if he thot he was out of Kap's range? Probably won't quit running next time.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think theyre holding back on purpose to be honest. he more surprises they have for people in the playoffs the better

LMAO! Yeah, I really hope that 1 screen pass we run effectively in all of 2013 will be effective in the playoffs and be the difference in a game!

they showed some stuff early on and then dialed it back once they had a comfortable lead. i seriously think theyre holding on to some stuff on purpose lol

That must be why we had McDonald inactive yesterday (keep him fresh/healthy). Come playoff time, NOBODY is going to see that 2nd TE coming at them with all the attention to Gore, Crabtree, Boldin, VD and Manningham!

not sure if i wanna high five you for agreeing with me or punch you in the face for being a smartass

LMAO!!!! I was being sarcastic but not about you...b/c I've wanted us to use McDonald ALL year long in that soft zone of defenses like a more traditional WCO with all the added attention to outside and esp. now that Crabtree, Manningham, Boldin and VD will be honed in on. And now he's inactive.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think theyre holding back on purpose to be honest. he more surprises they have for people in the playoffs the better

LMAO! Yeah, I really hope that 1 screen pass we run effectively in all of 2013 will be effective in the playoffs and be the difference in a game!

they showed some stuff early on and then dialed it back once they had a comfortable lead. i seriously think theyre holding on to some stuff on purpose lol

That must be why we had McDonald inactive yesterday (keep him fresh/healthy). Come playoff time, NOBODY is going to see that 2nd TE coming at them with all the attention to Gore, Crabtree, Boldin, VD and Manningham!

not sure if i wanna high five you for agreeing with me or punch you in the face for being a smartass

LMAO!!!! I was being sarcastic but not about you...b/c I've wanted us to use McDonald ALL year long in that soft zone of defenses like a more traditional WCO with all the added attention to outside and esp. now that Crabtree, Manningham, Boldin and VD will be honed in on. And now he's inactive.

coo lol. i think youll get your wish man, someone has to step in now. dixon is on the active roster anyway so they probably need to activate someone in another position to do millers work. i think itll be mcdonald, hopefully he fixed his hands tho because i dont trust him that much

Originally posted by aTx49er:
I rewatch every game(all 22 angle) when it becomes available on NFL Rewind. IMO your theory doesn't hold water but we've already argued about this before so no point rehashing. Agree to disagree and carry on.

I was just joking with that response.

Have you tried it? Just pick one play. The All 22 is great if you want to see what coverages the defense is playing or the full completion of the deeper receiver routes but you certainly don't need it to see our college team passing offense IMHO. But all good...even if you were kidding.