Greg Roman, is he really good?

Man, Thl, don't I wish kap could be doing that. We've seen he CAN do it. So it is just a matter of repetition until it just becomes second nature to look one way( or scan 180 degrees) and then throw another. Same goes for the fakes, which he has already proven he can do. Bad coaching, Thl, bad coaching by omission.

As for kap not reading coverages well, that can be taught and re-taught in the film room, one on one. This obviously has not been happening. Like I said, errors of omission on Coach H,

We know Kap can do it with his pass to Vernon in EZ, looking the other way. We also know kap can make a beautiful fake into the line on a jumbo set on goal line with a superb fake and pass to Vernon, again in EZ. So we know kap can do both things. But he has improved on neither all season, more likely not worked on either all season, and I put that on JH, Qb coach, and of course, uncle roman. Shame on all 3. Come to think of it I assumed JH was his own qb coach, but maybe I am wrong on that. Whatever, part of being HC is seeing to it your qb looks off receivers, finds receivers, and fakes. I give Jim a D- on all 3. As you mentioned, Thl, kap could sure use the look offs against zone coverage especially, but against man also. Coach has got a lot of things to work on this offseason with kap, regardless of how we do here on out. He can make him twice the qb he is at present...but JH has to insist working on this and kap getting both down. If kap can't make reads, ok... but he sure as hell can be taught thru film work with JH to be better at it. A Montana or Steve Young tutorial wouldn't hurt either, yet we have heard nothing of that. That's probably too much to ask for...sigh...

Roman and Harbaugh are keeping their best play calling for the playoffs so teams can't prepare for them. In any competition, you must hav something unknown to have the upperhand. Keep the opponent guessing, the element of surprise is a great tactic for beating teams in the NFL. "Shock and Awe" the enemy! You guys even wonder why the 49ers do not use the pistol/spread this year that much anymore? You have to save your best plays for those last four games this year. Sam

Originally posted by 49ERSAM:
Roman and Harbaugh are keeping their best play calling for the playoffs so teams can't prepare for them. In any competition, you must hav something unknown to have the upperhand. Keep the opponent guessing, the element of surprise is a great tactic for beating teams in the NFL. "Shock and Awe" the enemy! You guys even wonder why the 49ers do not use the pistol/spread this year that much anymore? You have to save your best plays for those last four games this year. Sam

This is absolutely asinine. Give me a break. People need to stop peddling this nonsense, I'm sure they've got a few things they'd like to open up and use in the playoffs, but pretty much every team does, yet they still manage to run an effective offense when it counts in the regular season. A good time to bust out a few of those plays would have been against Carolina when they were putting up less than 200 yards of total offense.



"You guys even wonder why the 49ers do not use the pistol/spread this year that much anymore?"



Yes, because defenses have adjusted and are absolutely blowing up those plays. They still use the read option far too much for my liking. Not sure when they've ever actually utilized the spread formation.

Originally posted by vrabbit:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1217-why-greg-roman-public-enemy/

Can I be allowed to write a response to that? I think that article is absolutely filled with random strawmen and fluff.

Let 'er rip , Phoenix

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Nick...you're right, I should have included the Vikes and Raids. Solid locks are jets, Skins, maybe raids and vikes, jags sure seem a lock and I thot bucs. If you have info I don't let us know. Funny that you mentioned Coughlin,as he seems to be on the cusp every yr or every other yr...yet so far has eluded the reaper.

Khan came out and said he loves him some Bradley in JAX at midseason.

"I thought Dave and Gus were absolutely the two right guys for the job and, as the season has unfolded, if I could be convinced more, I am."

Guys, I took the chance to watch NFL Replay today to gauge our AR passing game in the first half; not sure if they aired every single pass but this was a great sample, nonetheless.

PS = Pro Style route tree. See previous pages for definition of AR1 or AR2 passing plays and Ad lib (is self-explanatory)

[Type of Passing Play = PS, AR1, AR2 or Ad lib] --- [Time in Seconds] ----------------------------------------------------- [Description] -------- [Results]

1Q:
· AR2 <2 VD sprints a Go-route, Boldin draws defender towards the LOS, picks the LB and CK hits Miller (sprinting out of the backfield) on the edge/flat where Boldin was. 7 yard gain.
· AR1 <3 Straight curl-left with Boldin, 9 yard gain.
AR1 @3 Straight sideline route to Crabtree (acrobatic catch). 15 yard gain
· AR1 >3 VD was the AR1 off the LOS towards the EZ, CK didn't pull the trigger, rolled left, threw it away. Miller only receiver on that side and had his back turned to CK blocking (held too).
· AR1 @3 CK in Q formation (i.e. shot gun), fakes handoff, immediately rolls right hitting Crabtree (solo receiver) on the sidelines for 12 yards but ruled incomplete. Boldin was within 15 yards, same line, in the middle of the field. To me, it was Crabtree all the way making this an AR1.
· PS @ 3 4 WR set (from bottom to top of screen) VD and Crabtree & Boldin and Manningham. CK in shotgun, scans right, then left, hits Manningham in triple coverage. Incomplete. He even had Gore running a route wide open right behind Manningham.

2Q:
· PS @ 3 3 WR set (from bottom to top of screen) Manningham and VD, Boldin & Crabtree. CK in shotgun, scans right and comes back to Manningham and incomplete. VD may have been the better deeper route coming across the formation or Hunter who also flared out, wide open with only one LB within 7 yards of him…gone!
· AR2 <3 2 WR set (from bottom to top of screen) Boldin & VD. VD clears out deep and Boldin drops right in the space for a 20 yard completion. Note: We were flaring the RB's out much more with Gore, Hunter and Miller (as real receiving options). And they were WIDE open esp. when they delayed their routes behind the DL after the WR's and TE"s cleared everything out
· Ad lib @ 3. I want to highlight this one @ the 8:12 mark b/c it looked like an AR1 to VD. Sherman is on him and is literally, standing there on the LOS ready to rush CK leaving VD wide open. Instead of tossing a quick pass to VD in the flat over/past Sherman from shotgun, he steps up and avoids the sack and sails it to Crabtree down the other sideline incomplete (s/h/b P.I.). But an experience QB knows you throw where the blitzer came from esp. if he is already the AR1. This means he IS probably looking down at the DL or rushers at times vs. keeping composure and stepping into it. That's coaching too.
· AR1 · AR1 < 3 2 WR set to the right, quick pass to Boldin in line for 10.
· AR2 @ 3 3 WR set, 2 left, 1 right. AR1 to Miller for 6. Boldin and VD cleared deep, opposite direction while CK fakes right before hitting an open Miller in the vacated area to the left coming out from the Q formation. Nice design as Miller was looking for it all the way. Gore wide open again as the check down in the middle of the field.
· Ad lib > 3 2 WR set (1 left, 1 right). It looked liked an AR1 to Crabtree to the left all the way, CK didn't pull the trigger, scrambles to the right, lobs it up to Boldin over Sherman for 27 yards.
· AR1 @ 3 CK and OL roll right, tosses back to VD for 12 (been waiting for this one all year!).
· AR2 >3 1 WR left. Boldin sprints from out wide across the formation while CK rolls to his original side in tandem with both VD and Miller in the EZ (shorter, deeper). Both covered, CK throws it away (no other options).
· AR2 @ 2 4 WR set (3 right, 1 left). Pass (too low) underneath to Crabtree while both Boldin & VD are already blocking for him. Offensive P.I. called. I'm OK with the call but the ball was almost in Crabtree's hands and Boldin was blocking well under 5 yards off the LOS. Hmmm.
· AR1

Summary: Almost all passes were @ or under 3 seconds (design), almost all were AR1 or AR2 calls with a couple successful ad lib plays run off those covered AR's mixed in with a couple PS's as well. CK ppears to have more control at the LOS to call which AR he wants. I liked many of the routes/designs and I especially liked how much we are flaring out the RB's as true receiving options now. These could be KILLER plays against any good defense with the added attention to VD, Manningham, Crabtree and Boldin out wide (usually to the sidelines and/or deeper routes). McDonald could make a living in this area as well even if he were to help in pass protection first and THEN flare out. CK showed some poor accuracy today, relies too much on Crabtree as the AR and also showed some mental lapses (INT and not pulling the trigger when the AR was open esp. on the blitz). Overall, it's still a predominant AR passing attack and it relies very heavily on the AR's winning their 1on1 battles (sometimes with a little help from their friends). Chemistry is clearly the key on the ad lib plays when the AR is covered or CK doesn't pull the trigger. I don't plan to do the second half as this was enough evidence for me.

Paste isn't copying over well...here are the last two plays:
• AR2 @ 2 4 WR set (3 right, 1 left). Pass (too low) underneath to Crabtree while both Boldin & VD are already blocking for him. Offensive P.I. called. I'm OK with the call but the ball was almost in Crabtree's hands and Boldin was blocking well under 5 yards off the LOS. Hmmm.
• AR1 <3 3 WR set (2 right, 1 left) VD starts on the right of the OT, rubs across the formation, CK hits him for a TD

Holy moly. Thanks for that post, NCommand. Great stuff!

Originally posted by NCommand:
Paste isn't copying over well...here are the last two plays:
• AR2 @ 2 4 WR set (3 right, 1 left). Pass (too low) underneath to Crabtree while both Boldin & VD are already blocking for him. Offensive P.I. called. I'm OK with the call but the ball was almost in Crabtree's hands and Boldin was blocking well under 5 yards off the LOS. Hmmm.
• AR1 <3 3 WR set (2 right, 1 left) VD starts on the right of the OT, rubs across the formation, CK hits him for a TD

Works better if you save it as a jpeg or gif and then download. Have to do this with spread sheets or it turns into mush.

Thanks for the post NC...a lot to consider and will be rewatching if I can find time. It's nice to have something like your run down while watching.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Guys, I took the chance to watch NFL Replay today to gauge our AR passing game in the first half; not sure if they aired every single pass but this was a great sample, nonetheless.

PS = Pro Style route tree. See previous pages for definition of AR1 or AR2 passing plays and Ad lib (is self-explanatory)

[Type of Passing Play = PS, AR1, AR2 or Ad lib] --- [Time in Seconds] ----------------------------------------------------- [Description] -------- [Results]

1Q:
· AR2 · AR1 AR1 @3 Straight sideline route to Crabtree (acrobatic catch). 15 yard gain
· AR1 >3 VD was the AR1 off the LOS towards the EZ, CK didn't pull the trigger, rolled left, threw it away. Miller only receiver on that side and had his back turned to CK blocking (held too).
· AR1 @3 CK in Q formation (i.e. shot gun), fakes handoff, immediately rolls right hitting Crabtree (solo receiver) on the sidelines for 12 yards but ruled incomplete. Boldin was within 15 yards, same line, in the middle of the field. To me, it was Crabtree all the way making this an AR1.
· PS @ 3 4 WR set (from bottom to top of screen) VD and Crabtree & Boldin and Manningham. CK in shotgun, scans right, then left, hits Manningham in triple coverage. Incomplete. He even had Gore running a route wide open right behind Manningham.
....
Summary: Almost all passes were @ or under 3 seconds (design), almost all were AR1 or AR2 calls with a couple successful ad lib plays run off those covered AR's mixed in with a couple PS's as well. CK ppears to have more control at the LOS to call which AR he wants. I liked many of the routes/designs and I especially liked how much we are flaring out the RB's as true receiving options now. These could be KILLER plays against any good defense with the added attention to VD, Manningham, Crabtree and Boldin out wide (usually to the sidelines and/or deeper routes). McDonald could make a living in this area as well even if he were to help in pass protection first and THEN flare out. CK showed some poor accuracy today, relies too much on Crabtree as the AR and also showed some mental lapses (INT and not pulling the trigger when the AR was open esp. on the blitz). Overall, it's still a predominant AR passing attack and it relies very heavily on the AR's winning their 1on1 battles (sometimes with a little help from their friends). Chemistry is clearly the key on the ad lib plays when the AR is covered or CK doesn't pull the trigger. I don't plan to do the second half as this was enough evidence for me.

Good stuff, NC. I'm kind of seeing different though. I'm not quite getting what the time to pull the trigger on a pass has to do with whether it is a college style one read play, or a pro style passing play. My take is that if Kap goes with his pre-snap primary read, the read he is making as the shifts are occurring at the LOS, the ball will come out fast. If his primary read is wrong, he will have to start his progressions. I'd like to go over some of the plays you referenced in your breakdown.

1Q:
· AR2 <2 VD sprints a Go-route, Boldin draws defender towards the LOS, picks the LB and CK hits Miller (sprinting out of the backfield) on the edge/flat where Boldin was. 7 yard gain. That's an AR play. Nice way to open up the game.
· AR1 - This play seems as though Kap is making a quick read once the blitz came. He saw the coverage and made the decision on where to go with the ball. PS
AR1 @3 Straight sideline route to Crabtree (acrobatic catch). 15 yard gain - Kap saw how the SEA DB was aligned (press man) and chose the matchup of Crabs vs Maxwell, instead of VD on a go route with a deep FS, instead of Boldin vs Sherman. PS
· AR1 >3 VD was the AR1 off the LOS towards the EZ, CK didn't pull the trigger, rolled left, threw it away. Miller only receiver on that side and had his back turned to CK blocking (held too). Boldin got caught up in garbage at the LOS and never got into his route. He finally breaks free, but that window passed. They were running a hi-lo concept. VD on the corner route, Boldin underneath on a crosser, Miller in the short flat. PS
· AR1 @3 CK in Q formation (i.e. shot gun), fakes handoff, immediately rolls right hitting Crabtree (solo receiver) on the sidelines for 12 yards but ruled incomplete. Boldin was within 15 yards, same line, in the middle of the field. To me, it was Crabtree all the way making this an AR1. There was immediate pressure right up the gut as Kap completes the playaction and had to roll right, cutting down half the field. There was a post-cross combination developing on the other side of the formation.
· PS @ 3 4 WR set (from bottom to top of screen) VD and Crabtree & Boldin and Manningham. CK in shotgun, scans right, then left, hits Manningham in triple coverage. Incomplete. He even had Gore running a route wide open right behind Manningham. I see an example of Kap recognizing his primary was covered and moving off to his next progression. Then showing a lot of confidence in his arm. PS


The underlined play: Check out the cushion being given. It's a blitz and SEA CBs are playing over the top coverage. Any short route being run will do. Kap takes it, Boldin (top of screen) on an out route.





The bolded play: Sherman at the bottom, was given the right coverage call. He beats VD's fly route with over the top technique. Had Sherman been in press trail technique, this is a possible target if Kap chooses. He skips over Crabs who was in contact with the LB (perhaps an anticipation throw was available). Crabs had YAC potential as VD cleared the area. His next read is the CB's (blue) depth, since it's obvious to Kap that the CB is in zone (eyes on Kap). If the CB is deep, go to Gore. If the CB is too shallow, there's a lane to Ham. The CB is deep, but it's 3rd&6 and Kap is aggressive in looking for the conversion (the red marker can be seen). He tries to gun it into Ham who tried his best at finding the soft spot in the zone, bracketed. VD on a corner route is also in a bracket.






edit: ^^Just noticed you said this play was a PS play. Agreed.

wow, helluva job, NC, and the thing that is outstanding...er, standing out most...is the huge # of AR plays. Watching the game I didn't realize we had half that many. Man, what a waste to have 3 great receivers and Baldwin and vance, LMJ and hunter, and not to use 4,5, or 6 guys as potential targets every play, a la Drew brees, Peyton, and Tom Brady, just to mention a few. It just seems such a waste to use only 1 or 2 guys each play as targets, when Brees completed 11 passes to 11 different guys against us and I guarantee, they were NOt ARs. Oh, well, it is JH's team, and he is my coach. Still I wish he called offense differently.

Is this going to change to PS once kap learns to read Ds better and call plays better? Also that assumes he can find different receivers that are NOT ARs. Is this AR playcalling due to kap's limitations, or JHs philosophy?

I guess if kap can't find receivers well, then AR is a good fallback position. Is that what you see?

Was curious to see how the 49ers went about attacking the SEA secondary. Here are the pass plays from the 1st half. The orange/yellow arrow is the targeted route (yellow = complete, orange = inc). Included are throws where a defensive penalty was called. Not shown are scrambles where Kap does not throw. The game situation is in the top left of each pic with the personnel grouping listed underneath.
22 = 2RB / 2TE /1WR
21 = 2RB / 1TE / 2 WR
11 = 1RB / 1TE / 3WR

1st Quarter


2nd Quarter

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's a product of running an AR passing game...running deep decoys, focusing on doing their part to help the AR, head turned down field blocking, etc. That said, once these receivers DO realize it's become ad lib, other than Boldin and sometimes, VD, the rest don't do a very good job coming back to CK/the ball and/or finding the soft spots in the defense. Lots and lots of go-routes; takes a while to come back. Plus most of the time these plays are coming back along the sidelines while CK is rolling to the right buying time. That gives defenders more time to flood that small area. But as to pasodoc9er's point, yes, whether it's a WCO, Spread or even the AR offense, there is no reason why we can't continue to drop in key targets into these soft spots and attack a quality defense and soften them up.

I think it's because Roman thinks that this is what the defense is giving him, therefore you have to run that style of offense.

Roman thinks, "Matchups are God". "If they play one deep safety, always run two deep routes." etc...

He is not an artist. He thinks purely logical. That is why our offense seems so robotic and without rhythm.

Originally posted by thl408:
Was curious to see how the 49ers went about attacking the SEA secondary. Here are the pass plays from the 1st half.

Very cool to see, thanks. Looks like mostly multi-route reads for Kaep, mixed with a designed single AR1 (#21) and single AR2 play (#19).

This is what I have been feeling we typically do in our offense... but admit, I haven't been reviewing as much as I used to.