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How many of Alex passes are thrown and completed past 2.7 seconds??

Watching the MNF game last night, Gruden said the packers work on a drill where at 2.7 seconds the horn goes off, the qb has to scramble and the WR's need to improvise to get open. This is what makes the Packers and Steelers so successful is they get big plays off of the qb buying time and the WR improvising. It made me think, when Alex is forced to scramble, rarely does he find a wr or TE open. Historically he runs right and throws it away??

Is my observation off? Do you think the niners practice the same drill of scrambling and becoming open after the designate routes do not work?
im sorry but since harbaugh era how many times has he thrown it away throwing right? historically ya maybe but since harbaugh he rolls right and many times he attempts a pass. I think our WR do a decent job improvising but typically packers and 49ers dont improvise because alex and aaron are mobile. Improvising is tpically for teams with great o line and immobile qbs
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
im sorry but since harbaugh era how many times has he thrown it away throwing right? historically ya maybe but since harbaugh he rolls right and many times he attempts a pass. I think our WR do a decent job improvising but typically packers and 49ers dont improvise because alex and aaron are mobile. Improvising is tpically for teams with great o line and immobile qbs

You seem to be talking bout designed roll out but I think the t/s is talking bout improvising as in when a play breaks down and he's scrambling trying to make a big play.
[ Edited by lamontb on Sep 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM ]
  • sfout
  • Veteran
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This goes back to how Urban Meyer taught him the Ute's offense. Meyer condition him to roll right if his initial reads werent open, I believe the usually ran underneath crossing routes or had the RB leak out of the backfield to give him an outlet in the event of blanket coverage downfield. If no one was open and a defender was closing on him he told just toss it out of bounds.

That conditioning and training carried over into his professional career but he felt like he was under pressure to make a play down field, hence so many atrocious rollout throws early in his career. Now that Harbaugh is here he recognized Alex's roll right has been apart of his style of play since he was 18 so he opted to incorporate designed roll outs that Smith could run or throw a touch pass over a defender to an outlet down the field. However over the years I've seen Alex threw a few INTS this way when a defender jumps in front of the pass and drags his toes out of bounds.

The other aspect JH taught him was that if he was in the pocket and a hole opened up in front of him and the WRs were even slightly covered he should just tuck and run it for positive yards. The reasoning, a guaranteed chunk of 1-5 yards( or more depending on the coverage) is the better choice
compared to maybe completing a pass, having it intercepted, or incomplete. It goes back to Harbaugh's "mistake-free" football he wants from Alex, in the pocket he's taught Alex to tuck and run it if he has an open lane in front of him, outside of the pocket he's told to throw it away or take a sack and not to force a throw down field.

People say this is a knock on Alex's "limitations" but in reality it is Harbaugh playing situational football, percentages and maximizing the time of possession. A sack on 3rd down means the clock continues to run for another 45 seconds before we punt the ball, 5-10 more seconds before we tackle the return man. Nearly a full minute is taken away from the other team, whereas an incomplete pass stops the clock and we give free time to the opposition. The negative thing here is in terms of percentages, yes a pass can be intercepted or defended but what about the other chunk of odds that our WRs and TEs (especially Crabtree and Vernon who seem to have the stickiest hands ever this season) make the catch, get a 1st down or maybe even take it to the house or a big gain? This style of play leaves yards and maybe even scores out on the field but it does keep us in control of the clock and Harbaugh has clearly placed a higher importance on maintaining the edge in TOP and a low turnover ratio then on the possibility of big plays.
Originally posted by sfout:
This goes back to how Urban Meyer taught him the Ute's offense. Meyer condition him to roll right if his initial reads werent open, I believe the usually ran underneath crossing routes or had the RB leak out of the backfield to give him an outlet in the event of blanket coverage downfield. If no one was open and a defender was closing on him he told just toss it out of bounds.

That conditioning and training carried over into his professional career but he felt like he was under pressure to make a play down field, hence so many atrocious rollout throws early in his career. Now that Harbaugh is here he recognized Alex's roll right has been apart of his style of play since he was 18 so he opted to incorporate designed roll outs that Smith could run or throw a touch pass over a defender to an outlet down the field. However over the years I've seen Alex threw a few INTS this way when a defender jumps in front of the pass and drags his toes out of bounds.

The other aspect JH taught him was that if he was in the pocket and a hole opened up in front of him and the WRs were even slightly covered he should just tuck and run it for positive yards. The reasoning, a guaranteed chunk of 1-5 yards( or more depending on the coverage) is the better choice
compared to maybe completing a pass, having it intercepted, or incomplete. It goes back to Harbaugh's "mistake-free" football he wants from Alex, in the pocket he's taught Alex to tuck and run it if he has an open lane in front of him, outside of the pocket he's told to throw it away or take a sack and not to force a throw down field.

People say this is a knock on Alex's "limitations" but in reality it is Harbaugh playing situational football, percentages and maximizing the time of possession. A sack on 3rd down means the clock continues to run for another 45 seconds before we punt the ball, 5-10 more seconds before we tackle the return man. Nearly a full minute is taken away from the other team, whereas an incomplete pass stops the clock and we give free time to the opposition. The negative thing here is in terms of percentages, yes a pass can be intercepted or defended but what about the other chunk of odds that our WRs and TEs (especially Crabtree and Vernon who seem to have the stickiest hands ever this season) make the catch, get a 1st down or maybe even take it to the house or a big gain? This style of play leaves yards and maybe even scores out on the field but it does keep us in control of the clock and Harbaugh has clearly placed a higher importance on maintaining the edge in TOP and a low turnover ratio then on the possibility of big plays.

Yes but Harbaugh didn't draft Kaepernick to sit there and play safe. I don't think that is a Harbaugh thing more than it is an Alex thing. Harbaugh want's smart QB's not over safe ones.

Also, Rodgers was engrained to hold the ball at his ear in college, didn't affect him much.

These are excuses and Alex is an NFL QB. Sometimes, he needs to make an executive decision.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by sfout:
This goes back to how Urban Meyer taught him the Ute's offense. Meyer condition him to roll right if his initial reads werent open, I believe the usually ran underneath crossing routes or had the RB leak out of the backfield to give him an outlet in the event of blanket coverage downfield. If no one was open and a defender was closing on him he told just toss it out of bounds.

That conditioning and training carried over into his professional career but he felt like he was under pressure to make a play down field, hence so many atrocious rollout throws early in his career. Now that Harbaugh is here he recognized Alex's roll right has been apart of his style of play since he was 18 so he opted to incorporate designed roll outs that Smith could run or throw a touch pass over a defender to an outlet down the field. However over the years I've seen Alex threw a few INTS this way when a defender jumps in front of the pass and drags his toes out of bounds.

The other aspect JH taught him was that if he was in the pocket and a hole opened up in front of him and the WRs were even slightly covered he should just tuck and run it for positive yards. The reasoning, a guaranteed chunk of 1-5 yards( or more depending on the coverage) is the better choice
compared to maybe completing a pass, having it intercepted, or incomplete. It goes back to Harbaugh's "mistake-free" football he wants from Alex, in the pocket he's taught Alex to tuck and run it if he has an open lane in front of him, outside of the pocket he's told to throw it away or take a sack and not to force a throw down field.

People say this is a knock on Alex's "limitations" but in reality it is Harbaugh playing situational football, percentages and maximizing the time of possession. A sack on 3rd down means the clock continues to run for another 45 seconds before we punt the ball, 5-10 more seconds before we tackle the return man. Nearly a full minute is taken away from the other team, whereas an incomplete pass stops the clock and we give free time to the opposition. The negative thing here is in terms of percentages, yes a pass can be intercepted or defended but what about the other chunk of odds that our WRs and TEs (especially Crabtree and Vernon who seem to have the stickiest hands ever this season) make the catch, get a 1st down or maybe even take it to the house or a big gain? This style of play leaves yards and maybe even scores out on the field but it does keep us in control of the clock and Harbaugh has clearly placed a higher importance on maintaining the edge in TOP and a low turnover ratio then on the possibility of big plays.

Yes but Harbaugh didn't draft Kaepernick to sit there and play safe. I don't think that is a Harbaugh thing more than it is an Alex thing. Harbaugh want's smart QB's not over safe ones.

Also, Rodgers was engrained to hold the ball at his ear in college, didn't affect him much.

These are excuses and Alex is an NFL QB. Sometimes, he needs to make an executive decision.

this....Alex fan here by the way but the truth hurts.
Alex is slowly learning he can make the stick throws. But he is gradually improving. His fear of making mistakes has been his big issue. It has also been difficult to learn to throw his receivers open. For some, like Favre or Brees it seems they have different mental-perceptual wiring which makes it easier. I sense Harbaugh knows this and plays to Alex's comfort zone. That's one view point. There's another. We have seen him on rare occasion, usually when behind, when he might be expected to fail, when there's nothing to lose that his head clicks into a different zone and his instincts take over. So, we know they are there, but are probably veiled by mental blocks caused by his fears of making mistakes. Again, it seems he is slowly getting more relaxed and less afraid and cautious but will he ever be the type who can take the team on his back regularly like the elite. That's the big question we all have been considering since Harbaugh, the quarterback whisperer came. How's that for a little amateur sports psychology.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Improvising is tpically for teams with great o line and immobile qbs

LOL
I thought we were running 3 second passing drills all off season? As to ad-libing, we SUCK as a TEAM. Alex seems to roll as far as he can, even backwards buying time but man, there just isn't anything open save for an occasional Ginn, Miller and Hunter. I'm starting to think it's not built into our offense...just rush for a couple yards or take the sack Alex. But don't throw it away unless it's a really deep potential sack and don't run out of bounds.
Originally posted by NCommand:
I thought we were running 3 second passing drills all off season? As to ad-libing, we SUCK as a TEAM. Alex seems to roll as far as he can, even backwards buying time but man, there just isn't anything open save for an occasional Ginn, Miller and Hunter. I'm starting to think it's not built into our offense...just rush for a couple yards or take the sack Alex. But don't throw it away unless it's a really deep potential sack and don't run out of bounds.

Sounds about right.
Well it didn't work very well for them last night, lol
When Alex is rolling right where is he usually looking? Up field. Remember the first down to Vernon where he rolled right and fired one in there on 3rd and 11? Your telling me there was no improv on that play?
[ Edited by JiksJuicy on Sep 25, 2012 at 3:54 PM ]
I've always rooted for Alex - and am a fan of his improvement. BUT, I must admit, the guy just struggles to look like a good NFL QB. Yes, he is mobile, but he is hesitant making throws or running. He just isn't smooth.

More importantly, no matter what people say, he has a propensity to throw the ball high rather than stick throws in there. Whether he or the coach fear that propensity it doesn't matter, in either case, they keep the throws under 20 yards - even then it can get sketchy.

No matter how much I root for him, unless he has major improvement in this part of his game THIS YEAR, I don't think the team can tolerate that limitation on the game plan longer - CK (or someone else) will get pushed to the forefront.
How many does any team complete after 2.7 seconds?
i am an alex smith hater but have to admit he is a damn fine quarterback