Scott Tolzien vs Josh Johnson for #3 QB position

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Yes, but that FO has McDrunky...

That was the weirdest thing, cause he usually liked his players to have typical prototype size. However, clearly he is not the one calling the shots.

Scott has done well in the preseason, but let us not forget the competition level he played against. Also, everyone is basing it only on the pre and not training camp, where as others like Norv when he was with SD and JH here have seen things upclose. Until Scott faces stiffer competition we will have to wait and see. Kaep may not come across as fluid as ST, but then again he maybe like Larry Bird, not pretty looking, but gets the job done.

If the kid gets the points on the board, I can live with ugly. People were saying all kinds of things about Randy Moss, but as his peer and fellow wr said all he does is score TDs, in the end that is all that matters.

Originally posted by WildBill:
Scott has done well in the preseason, but let us not forget the competition level he played against. Also, everyone is basing it only on the pre and not training camp, where as others like Norv when he was with SD and JH here have seen things upclose. Until Scott faces stiffer competition we will have to wait and see. Kaep may not come across as fluid as ST, but then again he maybe like Larry Bird, not pretty looking, but gets the job done.

If the kid gets the points on the board, I can live with ugly. People were saying all kinds of things about Randy Moss, but as his peer and fellow wr said all he does is score TDs, in the end that is all that matters.

Stop already with the harping about the competition he's facing. There is SOME truth to that, but when there are 300 pound behemoths literally in your face, or a 250 lb linebacker or safety barreling right at you, and you can still accurately deliver the ball to a receiver, then it doesn't really matter what "string" those guys are. Calm and accuracy under pressure, sometimes extreme pressure, and making the right reads, is the same no matter whether those guys are starters or not.

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You forget two major intangibles, timing and touch, which Kaepernick really lacks, not to mention his footwork is horrible which is a definite must in the WCO. Footwork coordinates with the receivers routes. I remember when we drafted Gio Carmazzi, the media use to tease him cause he looked like a robot out there trying to run the WCO, robot in reference to his mechanics meaning he looked pretty stiff, same as how Kaepernick looks.

Second question: Mike Vick, Vince Young, Dennis Dixon, Joe Webb, Seneca Wallace, Tim Tebow, Pat White, Tavaris Jackson, Donovan McNabb, Eric Crouch. Now how many of the won Super Bowls??

I can name you 10 pocket passers that did.

Yah you mention Steve Young, well Walsh molded him into a passer first, runner second, don't ever forget that!!!!

Actually, Steve was a runner first that got molded into a passer, point is, it can be done with a competent staff of coaches, unless you believe JH and company are not competent?

Wasn't that pretty much the same thing I said??

Originally posted by WildBill:
I have all the respect for Joe and love what he did for the niners in breaking the cowboy curse, but Joe hasn't seen the playbook. If you go by the play calling and formations of the two (Walsh and Harbaugh/Roman), they are vastly different. I lived through the Walsh days. By the time Shannahan, took over, although it was WCO, it was vastly different, still pass, but not as short. As Kolohe and others have said, Walsh set up the run with the pass. The only reason the niners would run was at the end, Walsh wanted to control the clock and run it out if we were leading. Don't get me wrong, if Walsh saw blood and it came in the form of the run, he would run until you stopped it. JH is run to set up the pass, but doesn't mean he won't pass if that is necessary, even the running style is different, back then it was technical and finesse, now it is maul the guys behind into the ground.

Montana did meet with Smith and was asked to assess Smith for the 9ers a couple years ago, so he may be more aware than others...plus, a former pro QB would be able to understand much of the play book by watching games.

Walsh ran when the opportunity presented itself and passed the same. When he retired some said it was because defenses had caught up with him...nonsense! He would have modified and expanded as needed. Remember that Walsh was a boxer and believed in taking what the opponent left open. He scripted his first series or two on offense to see how the D would react and then began calling plays to take advantage of what he saw as tendencies or reactions. Blatant opportunist!

JH is the same type of coach...very much in the game and taking what is there. Last year the offense played a very cautious, efficient game because most opponents had the advantage of experience in their defensive schemes. This year? Who knows? He may come out throwing more. I agree that he tends more toward power running and vertical passing than Walsh, but he's seen it all over his years and I'm pretty sure he could, can, will modify as necessary. With no time in TC last year the short timing routes were fairly ineffective...so he went more vertical.

I'm seeing some comparisons between the 9ers under JH and Cincinnati with Walsh (assistant to Brown). Also with Prothro at SD.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WildBill:
I have all the respect for Joe and love what he did for the niners in breaking the cowboy curse, but Joe hasn't seen the playbook. If you go by the play calling and formations of the two (Walsh and Harbaugh/Roman), they are vastly different. I lived through the Walsh days. By the time Shannahan, took over, although it was WCO, it was vastly different, still pass, but not as short. As Kolohe and others have said, Walsh set up the run with the pass. The only reason the niners would run was at the end, Walsh wanted to control the clock and run it out if we were leading. Don't get me wrong, if Walsh saw blood and it came in the form of the run, he would run until you stopped it. JH is run to set up the pass, but doesn't mean he won't pass if that is necessary, even the running style is different, back then it was technical and finesse, now it is maul the guys behind into the ground.

Montana did meet with Smith and was asked to assess Smith for the 9ers a couple years ago, so he may be more aware than others...plus, a former pro QB would be able to understand much of the play book by watching games.

Walsh ran when the opportunity presented itself and passed the same. When he retired some said it was because defenses had caught up with him...nonsense! He would have modified and expanded as needed. Remember that Walsh was a boxer and believed in taking what the opponent left open. He scripted his first series or two on offense to see how the D would react and then began calling plays to take advantage of what he saw as tendencies or reactions. Blatant opportunist!

JH is the same type of coach...very much in the game and taking what is there. Last year the offense played a very cautious, efficient game because most opponents had the advantage of experience in their defensive schemes. This year? Who knows? He may come out throwing more. I agree that he tends more toward power running and vertical passing than Walsh, but he's seen it all over his years and I'm pretty sure he could, can, will modify as necessary. With no time in TC last year the short timing routes were fairly ineffective...so he went more vertical.

I'm seeing some comparisons between the 9ers under JH and Cincinnati with Walsh (assistant to Brown).

Good post as usual. Just like to add... Montana was an extension of Walsh's 'take what they give you' philosophy. Harbaugh seems to have the same rapport with Smith. You cannot tell me that last year was not part of how Harbaugh wanted Smith to play on the field by design. We have seen Smith through the years. When was the last time he wasn't a soldier -- do what the coaches tell you. Part of the reason he was drafted by Nolan. Smith was an extension of Harbaugh last year no doubt.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Good post as usual. Just like to add... Montana was an extension of Walsh's 'take what they give you' philosophy. Harbaugh seems to have the same rapport with Smith. You cannot tell me that last year was not part of how Harbaugh wanted Smith to play on the field by design. We have seen Smith through the years. When was the last time he wasn't a soldier -- do what the coaches tell you. Part of the reason he was drafted by Nolan. Smith was an extension of Harbaugh last year no doubt.

but I wants me fantasy football statz!!!

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You forget two major intangibles, timing and touch, which Kaepernick really lacks, not to mention his footwork is horrible which is a definite must in the WCO. Footwork coordinates with the receivers routes. I remember when we drafted Gio Carmazzi, the media use to tease him cause he looked like a robot out there trying to run the WCO, robot in reference to his mechanics meaning he looked pretty stiff, same as how Kaepernick looks.

Second question: Mike Vick, Vince Young, Dennis Dixon, Joe Webb, Seneca Wallace, Tim Tebow, Pat White, Tavaris Jackson, Donovan McNabb, Eric Crouch. Now how many of the won Super Bowls??

I can name you 10 pocket passers that did.

Yah you mention Steve Young, well Walsh molded him into a passer first, runner second, don't ever forget that!!!!

Actually, Steve was a runner first that got molded into a passer, point is, it can be done with a competent staff of coaches, unless you believe JH and company are not competent?

Wasn't that pretty much the same thing I said??

I think that's a misconception about Steve Young. He was a pocket passer, had the arm and the ability to throw the ball since he was in college. The problem with Young was he was thrown into a bad team in Tampa. He ended up learning to use his legs to get himself out of trouble because they were so bad on offense. When he got to the 49ers, they had to force him to trust his other offensive guys to make the plays. And part of that is to stay in the pocket longer than he was used to. But to say that he was a good running qb with lesser ability as a passer is not true.

It's clear tolzein is confident with the offense, and is a vocal leader. He's not afraid to call people out, challenge people, make the tight throw, and lead....

I liked his run for a first down too...he's not super fast...but, he's not much slower than smith and smith is pretty fast.

I think his arm is pretty decent...smith couldn't throw that bullet he wedged in there...

I Like Josh Johnson, but why keep him when we have Kap. Doesn't seem logical. I say Kap and Tolzein.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Good post as usual. Just like to add... Montana was an extension of Walsh's 'take what they give you' philosophy. Harbaugh seems to have the same rapport with Smith. You cannot tell me that last year was not part of how Harbaugh wanted Smith to play on the field by design. We have seen Smith through the years. When was the last time he wasn't a soldier -- do what the coaches tell you. Part of the reason he was drafted by Nolan. Smith was an extension of Harbaugh last year no doubt.

but I wants me fantasy football statz!!!

Stats? Stats? You can't handle real stats! We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent 'watching' something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very 'fandom' I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a 'pom pom' and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Thank you Colonel Jessup and a Few Good Men!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Stats? Stats? You can't handle real stats! We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent 'watching' something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very 'fandom' I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a 'pom pom' and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Thank you Colonel Jessup and a Few Good Men!

recognized immediately and loved it... gotta be one of the best rants in movie history!

Originally posted by oldman9er:
recognized immediately and loved it... gotta be one of the best rants in movie history!

Caine Mutiny (Strawberry rant) and A Few Good Men are two of my favorites! Glad you enjoyed it!

One thing rarely mentioned is that AS, Ck, and JJ are similar in that they can all gain yardage with their running ability if the play breaks down while ST cannot. I believe Tolzien will be the odd man out.

Ugly kid Tolzien is gonna make it.

Originally posted by ayetee:
One thing rarely mentioned is that AS, Ck, and JJ are similar in that they can all gain yardage with their running ability if the play breaks down while ST cannot. I believe Tolzien will be the odd man out.

uhh... Scramble for first down on Friday????













...I saw it