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POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Don't worry guys.

He's on the Alex Smith plan..just wait 3 more years and he will be average

But he's already above average

Ninertalk gonna Ninertalk
[ Edited by YungAce on Aug 4, 2012 at 2:55 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Yes, Crabtree is always on the verge of having a great breakout season; projected; potentially; if everything goes wright; etc. You could make the same argument about Josh Morgan, but the expectations around Crabtree were much higher and deservedly so. Remember Crabtree should have been taken higher than 10 when we selected him in that draft so essentially we were getting a top 5 - 7 pick at 10. Every WR I know drafted in that range was expected to be a primary difference maker/starter for their team. I disagree that the 49ers haven't had a solid #2 WR on this team - in fact, the roster has been full of them over the years. Again, the primary receiving threat established on this team has been Vernon Davis.

2009 WRs: Isaac Bruce, Josh Morgan, Arnaz Battle, Jason Hill, Micheal Spurlock, Brandon Jones. Bruce had a terrible year in 2009 and had a much better year in 2008 - where he put up numbers similar to what we saw from Crabs last season.

Don't get me wrong I'm pulling for him but the injury stat line is just expected. Marginal field production is expected. Yes if we project out what his stats would have been over "x" games we get .... That's nice and all, but when does it actually show up.

Again, I pose the question, when you really need a (receiving) play from the offense, where do you go?

The bolded is just an insane point. So now we are calling Crabtree a top 5 pick? We picked him at tenth and the Niners knew he had recently had foot surgery. Bruce did put up the same numbers as Crabtree in 2008, but he difference is that Bruce is a first ballot HOFer player under a coordinator that he spent years with and made him the focal point of our passing attack. While Crabtree is 24 years old and playing in an offense that is intent on running the ball and playing for the field goal.

My one and only point is that it is far to early to suggest that Crabtree has peaked as a player. Receivers get injured in camp the most often compared to any other position. The difference is this time its a minor tweak keeping him off the field not rehab from foot surgery.

To your final question, where do we go when we need a big passing play? I have a counter question for you, when have you ever seen Alex Smith throw the ball into double coverage outside the hashes when he needs a big play? The reason Vernon Davis is his best option in those situations is because Alex throws the deep seem extremely well.

This is just a cursory quote I found from NFL.com:

Pick Analysis: The 49ers surprisingly land the draft's biggest playmaker in Crabtree. The two-time Biletnikoff Award winner is a natural pass catcher with outstanding ball skills and awareness. Crabtree gives the team its best receiving threat since Terrell Owens, and he's poised to become an instant star in the NFC West.


I just want to draw attention to the word surprisingly. No one in that draft thought Crabtree would drop to us at 10. Furthermore, look at how the entire draft saw this player - the biggest play-maker. So expecting a two-time Biletnikoff Award winner to be a #1, top rated receiving threat on a team that lacked receiving talent and already had a good TE isn't too far of a stretch.

I'm not saying Crabtree has peaked as player. I don't know that and that's not my argument at all. I have watched enough football to know that it's very likely players who don't practice and don't take extra time to establish a rapport with their QB regardless of who they are, usually don't find sustained success.

And that goes to the last point you addressed....

The reason why Smith throws the deep seam to Vernon Davis very well (and not to any other receiver running the same route) is because they practice it repeatedly, not simply because it's a skill Alex has. Why throw to a double-covered WR outside the hash in whom you have little trust? You do realize that the deep seam isn't only reserved to the TE right - that route can be run by a WR, may not be called the same. I completely reject the implication that only Vernon Davis can run this play effectively because Alex can only effectively throw it to him. That route is about anticipation, trust and ... well ... rapport.

And we all know it's been thoroughly documented the rapport issues between Smith and Crabtree.

This. This, this, and this.
Dirty P is a feisty little poster....
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Dirty P is a feisty little poster....

Talk about the topic... not the poster... or I'll 25% you.

oh wait....
He hasnt been that breakout player we all have expected,but he's far from a BUST.i know personally after watchin him at Texas Tech,I thought he was goin to be the shiiiiit,but a bust is no contributions whatsoever,lil to no games started,and s**tty numbers.Crabs is far from that.He is definetly not the guy we hoped for and expected him to be YET,but he's not a complete bust.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Yes, Crabtree is always on the verge of having a great breakout season; projected; potentially; if everything goes wright; etc. You could make the same argument about Josh Morgan, but the expectations around Crabtree were much higher and deservedly so. Remember Crabtree should have been taken higher than 10 when we selected him in that draft so essentially we were getting a top 5 - 7 pick at 10. Every WR I know drafted in that range was expected to be a primary difference maker/starter for their team. I disagree that the 49ers haven't had a solid #2 WR on this team - in fact, the roster has been full of them over the years. Again, the primary receiving threat established on this team has been Vernon Davis.

2009 WRs: Isaac Bruce, Josh Morgan, Arnaz Battle, Jason Hill, Micheal Spurlock, Brandon Jones. Bruce had a terrible year in 2009 and had a much better year in 2008 - where he put up numbers similar to what we saw from Crabs last season.

Don't get me wrong I'm pulling for him but the injury stat line is just expected. Marginal field production is expected. Yes if we project out what his stats would have been over "x" games we get .... That's nice and all, but when does it actually show up.

Again, I pose the question, when you really need a (receiving) play from the offense, where do you go?

The bolded is just an insane point. So now we are calling Crabtree a top 5 pick? We picked him at tenth and the Niners knew he had recently had foot surgery. Bruce did put up the same numbers as Crabtree in 2008, but he difference is that Bruce is a first ballot HOFer player under a coordinator that he spent years with and made him the focal point of our passing attack. While Crabtree is 24 years old and playing in an offense that is intent on running the ball and playing for the field goal.

My one and only point is that it is far to early to suggest that Crabtree has peaked as a player. Receivers get injured in camp the most often compared to any other position. The difference is this time its a minor tweak keeping him off the field not rehab from foot surgery.

To your final question, where do we go when we need a big passing play? I have a counter question for you, when have you ever seen Alex Smith throw the ball into double coverage outside the hashes when he needs a big play? The reason Vernon Davis is his best option in those situations is because Alex throws the deep seem extremely well.

This is just a cursory quote I found from NFL.com:

Pick Analysis: The 49ers surprisingly land the draft's biggest playmaker in Crabtree. The two-time Biletnikoff Award winner is a natural pass catcher with outstanding ball skills and awareness. Crabtree gives the team its best receiving threat since Terrell Owens, and he's poised to become an instant star in the NFC West.


I just want to draw attention to the word surprisingly. No one in that draft thought Crabtree would drop to us at 10. Furthermore, look at how the entire draft saw this player - the biggest play-maker. So expecting a two-time Biletnikoff Award winner to be a #1, top rated receiving threat on a team that lacked receiving talent and already had a good TE isn't too far of a stretch.

I'm not saying Crabtree has peaked as player. I don't know that and that's not my argument at all. I have watched enough football to know that it's very likely players who don't practice and don't take extra time to establish a rapport with their QB regardless of who they are, usually don't find sustained success.

And that goes to the last point you addressed....

The reason why Smith throws the deep seam to Vernon Davis very well (and not to any other receiver running the same route) is because they practice it repeatedly, not simply because it's a skill Alex has. Why throw to a double-covered WR outside the hash in whom you have little trust? You do realize that the deep seam isn't only reserved to the TE right - that route can be run by a WR, may not be called the same. I completely reject the implication that only Vernon Davis can run this play effectively because Alex can only effectively throw it to him. That route is about anticipation, trust and ... well ... rapport.

And we all know it's been thoroughly documented the rapport issues between Smith and Crabtree.

Clearly we shouldn't have expected Crabtree to be a top receiver.
so far yes, he has not earned his money.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
This is just a cursory quote I found from NFL.com:

Pick Analysis: The 49ers surprisingly land the draft's biggest playmaker in Crabtree. The two-time Biletnikoff Award winner is a natural pass catcher with outstanding ball skills and awareness. Crabtree gives the team its best receiving threat since Terrell Owens, and he's poised to become an instant star in the NFC West.


I just want to draw attention to the word surprisingly. No one in that draft thought Crabtree would drop to us at 10. Furthermore, look at how the entire draft saw this player - the biggest play-maker. So expecting a two-time Biletnikoff Award winner to be a #1, top rated receiving threat on a team that lacked receiving talent and already had a good TE isn't too far of a stretch.

I'm not saying Crabtree has peaked as player. I don't know that and that's not my argument at all. I have watched enough football to know that it's very likely players who don't practice and don't take extra time to establish a rapport with their QB regardless of who they are, usually don't find sustained success.

And that goes to the last point you addressed....

The reason why Smith throws the deep seam to Vernon Davis very well (and not to any other receiver running the same route) is because they practice it repeatedly, not simply because it's a skill Alex has. Why throw to a double-covered WR outside the hash in whom you have little trust? You do realize that the deep seam isn't only reserved to the TE right - that route can be run by a WR, may not be called the same. I completely reject the implication that only Vernon Davis can run this play effectively because Alex can only effectively throw it to him. That route is about anticipation, trust and ... well ... rapport.

And we all know it's been thoroughly documented the rapport issues between Smith and Crabtree.

I understand the hype attached to him coming out of college. I also understand that a prospects hype is not his fault. Obviously he brought a lot of attention to his contract by holding out, but thats in the past. The truth of the matter is that Crabtree came from a gimmick offense and was drafted by a team that had one of the most ineffective passing attacks in the league. He was thrown into the starting lineup by Singletary and began producing immediately and has improved each year since entering the league. You and I can disagree on whether Alex Smith's skills as a passer contribute to him choosing to go to his TE, but the bottom line is the 49ers have arguably the best starting TE in the league. I don't think there is any shame in Crabtree taking a back seat to VD in crunch time.

If you combine the facts that he has been an ascending player, is now in his second year with an astronomically better offensive coach than any he's ever had, is now surrounded by proven NFL talent at WR and his QB is finally putting it all together I don't see why anyone in their right mind is ready to give up on him and call him a bust. I am not saying that you are saying that, but that is why I started defending him in this thread in the first place.

He's not a burner, but I think he's shown flashes of playmaking ability and he's one of the better blocking receivers in the NFL. I think he's put in a lot of work this offseason with A. Smith and while its unfortunate that he's dinged up, I trust that he's focused and ready to play to his potential. We will see whether or not this is the case. I just can't believe how many fans are bashing one of our more productive offensive players because he didn't turn into a superstar before he turned 25.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 4:04 PM ]
  • 4ML
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bust?

  • fly15
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by Fresnoniner:
so far yes, he has not earned his money.

People had Vernon Davis labeled as a bust and look how that turned out. I voted no but I probably lean towards too early to tell.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think it's really fair to call him a bust. Let's be honest...we don't (and haven't) had a system in place that truly highlights any one particular receiver. And as much as I support Alex...it's not like he was lighting it up the last few years. The culmination of a bad system, poor coaching, system overhaul, thus resulting in poor QB play/passing offense = non productive WRs.

If Crabs were drafted by a better team...I think he would be at least a 900-1100 yard WR.
I would say BUST! This is his fourth year in the league and this is the first time he has been in training camp and practiced. Every other year He has been to hurt to to participate in training camp. He himself was hyping himself as the second coming of Jerry Rice. Yea that's working out wouldn't you say. He is an ego in a little no talented body who got his money and that is all he was there for. He also has a bad case of Alligator arms. If he even thinks he is going to take a hit his arms get really short. This is for the people who still believe he is not a bust. He held out for more money, right? So the 49ers broke down and paid him. So tell me what has he done to earn all the money he was given? NOTHING. He should have been Mr. Irrelevant in stead of the 10th overall pick. Because that is what he has become. Mr Irrelevant.
I don't think Crabfoot is a bust, but after looking at the 2009 NFL WR Draft Class (rounds 1-3), there's others I couldawouldashoulda taken at 10. But then again, I aint got no crystal ball.

#8 Darius Heyward Bay, OAK
#10 Michael Crabtree, SF
#19 Jeremy Maclin, PHI
#22 Percy Harvin, MIN
#29 Hakim Nicks, NYG
#30 Kenny Britt, TEN
#36 Brian Robiskie, CLE
#50 Mohamed Massaquoi, CLE
#82 Derrick Williams, DET
#83 Mike Wallace, PIT
#87 Patrick Turner, MIA
#91 Deon Butler, SEA
#99 Juaquin Iglesias, CHI