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POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
4 TD's? 2 in one game? You serious?

Alex Smith threw 17 total touchdowns dude. We broke the field goal record. Im obviously talking about catches and yardage, which are just as important for a young receiver

874 yards... yes that's great.

Wait, no it's not.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
4 TD's? 2 in one game? You serious?

Calvin Johnson

2007 - 4 touchdowns

2008 - 3 touchdowns

2010 - 5 touchdowns
Originally posted by NickSh49:
874 yards... yes that's great.

Wait, no it's not.

On a team that passed for just over 3000 yes it is. Ever heard of the word prespective? I guess Vernon Davis sucks too since he barely put up half of what Gronk and Graham did in terms of both yards and touchdowns? Crabtree was also still recovering from surgery through the first 3 weeks of the season
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:23 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
874 yards... yes that's great.

Wait, no it's not.

On a team that passed for just over 3000 yes it is. Ever heard of the word prespective? I guess Vernon Davis sucks too since he barely put up half of what Gronk and Graham did in terms of both yards and touchdowns? Crabtree was also still recovering from surgery through the first 3 weeks of the season

Wait... you ARE Michael Crabtree, aren't you?
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Wait... you ARE Michael Crabtree, aren't you?

No just an objective 49er fan

Calvin Johnson

2007 - 4 touchdowns

2008 - 3 touchdowns

2010 - 5 touchdowns
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Wait... you ARE Michael Crabtree, aren't you?

No just an objective 49er fan

Calvin Johnson

2007 - 4 touchdowns

2008 - 3 touchdowns

2010 - 5 touchdowns

The Lions were awful in 07 and 08. Shaun Hill was the QB in 2010.

And you skipped 09?

Now you're repeating yourself.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The Lions were awful in 07 and 08. Shaun Hill was the QB in 2010.

And you skipped 09?

Now you're repeating yourself.

The 49ers were awful in 2009 and 2010. Alex Smith was the QB in 2011

See what I did there?

The Lions had a good passing attack with Kitna throwing to CJ and Roy Williams
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:37 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by qnnhan7
Originally posted by NinerGM:
The difference is those 4 guys worked hard and fortunately maintained their health. I think the closest analogy is Vernon Davis - who really has been the #1 receiving option on this team. Davis wasn't known for his hands, even in college. However Davis put in extra time to get better and establish a rapport with Smith. It's very rare that you see Smith and Davis have a "miscommunication". My point is clutch receivers understand that you have to practice hard to with your QB - whoever that is to eventually make clutch plays. In 4 years I'm still waiting for the Crabtree clutch signature moment where I can say, Crabtree made a play no one else on this team could have made.... Yes, yes he's a solid #2 receiver and if that's the consensus around here, that means he's eminently replaceable. You can scheme that production via other players IMHO, you can't scheme for example, Davis' production and what he means as an impact player to this offense.

When you need a (receiving) play, who do you look for on this offense?

Every report prior to this minor injury have been that Crabtree is in tip top condition and looks great.

Solid #2 receivers are not easily replaceable like you say. Before Crabtree we didn't have any receiver on the roster who could have been a starter on another team for about 7 years in a row.

After 3 years and 3 different head coaches, I think being a "solid #2" and obviously improving is pretty good. Vernon Davis didn't look like anything special until his 4th year.

Yes, Crabtree is always on the verge of having a great breakout season; projected; potentially; if everything goes wright; etc. You could make the same argument about Josh Morgan, but the expectations around Crabtree were much higher and deservedly so. Remember Crabtree should have been taken higher than 10 when we selected him in that draft so essentially we were getting a top 5 - 7 pick at 10. Every WR I know drafted in that range was expected to be a primary difference maker/starter for their team. I disagree that the 49ers haven't had a solid #2 WR on this team - in fact, the roster has been full of them over the years. Again, the primary receiving threat established on this team has been Vernon Davis.

2009 WRs: Isaac Bruce, Josh Morgan, Arnaz Battle, Jason Hill, Micheal Spurlock, Brandon Jones. Bruce had a terrible year in 2009 and had a much better year in 2008 - where he put up numbers similar to what we saw from Crabs last season.

Don't get me wrong I'm pulling for him but the injury stat line is just expected. Marginal field production is expected. Yes if we project out what his stats would have been over "x" games we get .... That's nice and all, but when does it actually show up.

Again, I pose the question, when you really need a (receiving) play from the offense, where do you go?
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The Lions were awful in 07 and 08. Shaun Hill was the QB in 2010.

And you skipped 09?

Now you're repeating yourself.

The 49ers were awful in 2009 and 2010. Alex Smith was the QB in 2011

See what I did there?

The Lions had a good passing attack with Kitna throwing to CJ and Roy Williams

2007 was Calvin's rookie year.

Kitna also didn't play all of 2008 (injured), and Roy Williams was traded half-way through that 2008 season.


Here's the bottom line.

You think Crabs will improve.

I think he's not that great and wasn't worth taking so high. Doesn't have deep ball speed and doesn't get consistent separation.

Agree to disagree. I'm going to the gym.
Until he prepares himself during training camp like everyone else, he will be considered a bust. Mediocrity when you have a god given and special talent as he does is a waste and a shame.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Yes and the expectation for Crabtree was to be one of those guys. Maybe it wasn't your expectation, but it was the expectation for the overwhelming majority of this fanbase. Crabtree was touted as a top five pick, very similar to the Johnson's and Fitzgerald. That was the level of hype that came with Crabtree. We were seen as lucky to draft him because he fell purely because of his foot injury and because he did not run the 40.

Fitzgerald was good before Warner. C. Johnson was good before Stafford. A. Johnson was good before Schaub. Great WRs can make plays on marginal teams with poor QB play.

As susweel previously said, I knew all I needed to know about Crabtree after he decided to hold out in his rookie year 5 weeks into the regular season. Regardless, I still have hope for Crabtree. I think he'll be fine this year and he'll build on last season. I just don't think he'll ever live up to the gamechanger, playmaker, probowl destined hype that he came with.

Well thats your own dumb fault if you expected a guy to become Larry Fitzgerald just because he was a good college player. Did you expect Alex Smith to become Peyton Manning because he was picked first overall? If the clueless media had told you his game "resembled" Manning's coming out of college then you probably would have had that ridiculously unfair expectation. Football players are individuals and they all develop at their own pace. He's still a solid, ascending player. The holdout comment has nothing to do with anything that will happen on the field in 2012 so Im not even going to touch it.

Yes it's all our fault for having high expectations for a guy who had one of the most prolific collegiate WR careers ever.

Judging from your condescending post, you're obviously more than emotionally invested in this debate.
[ Edited by 9erfanAUS on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:47 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Yes, Crabtree is always on the verge of having a great breakout season; projected; potentially; if everything goes wright; etc. You could make the same argument about Josh Morgan, but the expectations around Crabtree were much higher and deservedly so. Remember Crabtree should have been taken higher than 10 when we selected him in that draft so essentially we were getting a top 5 - 7 pick at 10. Every WR I know drafted in that range was expected to be a primary difference maker/starter for their team. I disagree that the 49ers haven't had a solid #2 WR on this team - in fact, the roster has been full of them over the years. Again, the primary receiving threat established on this team has been Vernon Davis.

2009 WRs: Isaac Bruce, Josh Morgan, Arnaz Battle, Jason Hill, Micheal Spurlock, Brandon Jones. Bruce had a terrible year in 2009 and had a much better year in 2008 - where he put up numbers similar to what we saw from Crabs last season.

Don't get me wrong I'm pulling for him but the injury stat line is just expected. Marginal field production is expected. Yes if we project out what his stats would have been over "x" games we get .... That's nice and all, but when does it actually show up.

Again, I pose the question, when you really need a (receiving) play from the offense, where do you go?

The bolded is just an insane point. So now we are calling Crabtree a top 5 pick? We picked him at tenth and the Niners knew he had recently had foot surgery. Bruce did put up the same numbers as Crabtree in 2008, but he difference is that Bruce was a HOFer playing under a coordinator that he spent years with and made him the focal point of our passing attack. While Crabtree is 24 years old and playing in an offense that is intent on running the ball and playing for the field goal.

My one and only point is that it is far to early to suggest that Crabtree has peaked as a player. Receivers get injured in camp the most often compared to any other position. The difference is this time its a minor tweak keeping him off the field not rehab from foot surgery.

To your final question, where do we go when we need a big passing play? I have a counter question for you, when have you ever seen Alex Smith throw the ball into double coverage outside the hashes when he needs a big play? The reason Vernon Davis is his best option in those situations is because Alex throws the deep seem extremely well.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 4:05 PM ]
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Yes it's all our fault for having high expectations for a guy who had one of the most prolific collegiate WR careers ever.

Judging from your condescending post, you're obviously more than emotionally invested in this debate.

Yes, expecting a guy to come out of a spread offense and immediately become the best receiver in football when he is drafted by a team that is built to win with defense and clock management just because draftniks told you he is "like Larry Fitzgerald" is dumb.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:51 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Yes it's all our fault for having high expectations for a guy who had one of the most prolific collegiate WR careers ever.

Judging from your condescending post, you're obviously more than emotionally invested in this debate.

Yes, expecting a guy to come out of a spread offense and immediately become the best receiver in football when he is drafted by a team that is built to win with defense and clock management just because draftniks told you he is "like Larry Fitzgerald" is dumb.

Happy to stick you both with 25% or suspend you for a few days.

Or of course, you could read the rules and stop winding each other up.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Yes, Crabtree is always on the verge of having a great breakout season; projected; potentially; if everything goes wright; etc. You could make the same argument about Josh Morgan, but the expectations around Crabtree were much higher and deservedly so. Remember Crabtree should have been taken higher than 10 when we selected him in that draft so essentially we were getting a top 5 - 7 pick at 10. Every WR I know drafted in that range was expected to be a primary difference maker/starter for their team. I disagree that the 49ers haven't had a solid #2 WR on this team - in fact, the roster has been full of them over the years. Again, the primary receiving threat established on this team has been Vernon Davis.

2009 WRs: Isaac Bruce, Josh Morgan, Arnaz Battle, Jason Hill, Micheal Spurlock, Brandon Jones. Bruce had a terrible year in 2009 and had a much better year in 2008 - where he put up numbers similar to what we saw from Crabs last season.

Don't get me wrong I'm pulling for him but the injury stat line is just expected. Marginal field production is expected. Yes if we project out what his stats would have been over "x" games we get .... That's nice and all, but when does it actually show up.

Again, I pose the question, when you really need a (receiving) play from the offense, where do you go?

The bolded is just an insane point. So now we are calling Crabtree a top 5 pick? We picked him at tenth and the Niners knew he had recently had foot surgery. Bruce did put up the same numbers as Crabtree in 2008, but he difference is that Bruce is a first ballot HOFer player under a coordinator that he spent years with and made him the focal point of our passing attack. While Crabtree is 24 years old and playing in an offense that is intent on running the ball and playing for the field goal.

My one and only point is that it is far to early to suggest that Crabtree has peaked as a player. Receivers get injured in camp the most often compared to any other position. The difference is this time its a minor tweak keeping him off the field not rehab from foot surgery.

To your final question, where do we go when we need a big passing play? I have a counter question for you, when have you ever seen Alex Smith throw the ball into double coverage outside the hashes when he needs a big play? The reason Vernon Davis is his best option in those situations is because Alex throws the deep seem extremely well.

This is just a cursory quote I found from NFL.com:

Pick Analysis: The 49ers surprisingly land the draft's biggest playmaker in Crabtree. The two-time Biletnikoff Award winner is a natural pass catcher with outstanding ball skills and awareness. Crabtree gives the team its best receiving threat since Terrell Owens, and he's poised to become an instant star in the NFC West.


I just want to draw attention to the word surprisingly. No one in that draft thought Crabtree would drop to us at 10. Furthermore, look at how the entire draft saw this player - the biggest play-maker. So expecting a two-time Biletnikoff Award winner to be a #1, top rated receiving threat on a team that lacked receiving talent and already had a good TE isn't too far of a stretch.

I'm not saying Crabtree has peaked as player. I don't know that and that's not my argument at all. I have watched enough football to know that it's very likely players who don't practice and don't take extra time to establish a rapport with their QB regardless of who they are, usually don't find sustained success.

And that goes to the last point you addressed....

The reason why Smith throws the deep seam to Vernon Davis very well (and not to any other receiver running the same route) is because they practice it repeatedly, not simply because it's a skill Alex has. Why throw to a double-covered WR outside the hash in whom you have little trust? You do realize that the deep seam isn't only reserved to the TE right - that route can be run by a WR, may not be called the same. I completely reject the implication that only Vernon Davis can run this play effectively because Alex can only effectively throw it to him. That route is about anticipation, trust and ... well ... rapport.

And we all know it's been thoroughly documented the rapport issues between Smith and Crabtree.